How Vaping will be Effectively Banned Nationwide

[wv2win]

Due to the title of this thread (see link below), many probably didn't take the time to read it. That's a mistake. Please read this thread and the information provided by our supporter, friend and harm reduction expert, Bill Godshaw. As Bill states:

"If/when FDA imposes the deeming regulation on e-cigs, Mitch Zeller can truthfully say the same thing about all e-cig products (when FDA orders all e-cig products removed from the market)

That's why e-cig companies, vendors and vapers should NEVER advocate FDA regulation of e-cigs, as doing only endorses an FDA e-cig ban.

Telling a federal judge "But your honor, we didn't know the Tobacco Control Act would ban e-cigs" is a losing argument."


Here is the thread:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...nt-product-marketed-before-feb-15-2007-a.html


We all need to join & support CASAA ​and write our national senators and congressmen.

Note: the title of the post should have read: How Vaping will be "Effectively" banned nationwide.

 

[wv2win]

BUMP.....................................(they sure move off the top page fast these days)

 

[Caffeine7]

It reminds me of something I read a while ago about regulations. A frog won't jump willingly into boiling water so you start off with a pot of cool water and gradually turn up the heat. It all starts off with innocent enough sounding regulations. This is the same government that mandated airbags in cars because it made them feel good and then bothered to look at the research that they were killing small children in minor accidents. The facts are irrelevant. It's how it makes the nanny legislators feel. Hopefully it will go the same way as the soda size in New York went if enough of us say enough already

 

[Lifted]

Bump.

I've written my reps in congress and gotten nothing but canned responses. I sure wish there was some way to know we are really getting the message heard.

 

[zapped]

I still cant believe that we have new members and old alike here who are in favor of regulation. Im not operating under the same delusion. I know exactly who were fighting and why.

 

[CabinetGuyScott]

From 174 years ago...

Alexis De Tocqueville - "Democracy In America", 1840

A network of small, complicated rules. It does not break wills, but softens them. It does not tyrannize, it hinders, represses, stupefies, and finally it reduces each nation to being nothing more than a flock of timid animals, of which the government is the shepherd.



The slippery slope in all of its true ugliness rises again

 

[Bramble]

I still cant believe that we have new members and old alike here who are in favor of regulation. Im not operating under the same delusion. I know exactly who were fighting and why.

If I'm understanding the concept of equivalency correctly, it seems that the states are already shooting that in the foot by treating them the same way as they treat tobacco. Governments are already saying that e-cigs are so sufficiently equivalent to cigarettes that they equate the vapor to smoke and the nicotine to tobacco.

Maybe that will be the saving argument against "non-equivalency." WE are not the one saying they're the same... the government itself is, in most places.

If I have mis-grokked what we mean by equivalency I would happily have it explained to me better

 

[kslice917]

If I'm understanding the concept of equivalency correctly, it seems that the states are already shooting that in the foot by treating them the same way as they treat tobacco. Governments are already saying that e-cigs are so sufficiently equivalent to cigarettes that they equate the vapor to smoke and the nicotine to tobacco.

Maybe that will be the saving argument against "non-equivalency." WE are not the one saying they're the same... the government itself is, in most places.

If I have mis-grokked what we mean by equivalency I would happily have it explained to me better

I agree completely! I just don't think my PV should be considered the equivalent of a cigarette with tobacco in it - because it's not! They need to stop associating vaping and smoking, nicotine and tobacco, etc.

 

[CabinetGuyScott]

If I'm understanding the concept of equivalency correctly, it seems that the states are already shooting that in the foot by treating them the same way as they treat tobacco. Governments are already saying that e-cigs are so sufficiently equivalent to cigarettes that they equate the vapor to smoke and the nicotine to tobacco.

Maybe that will be the saving argument against "non-equivalency." WE are not the one saying they're the same... the government itself is, in most places.

If I have mis-grokked what we mean by equivalency I would happily have it explained to me better

:woot: !!

That would be some sweet irony ... and no doubts the lawyers are going to have a great time of fighting it all back

And Caffeine7 said:

Hopefully it will go the same way as the soda size in New York went if enough of us say enough already

With 20% of the population smoking, that 20% have their own circle of influence (family/friends/etc), 400,000+ people dying every year, the ubiquitous campaign to get people to stop smoking campaign, and most importantly: the exponential growth of the vaping population...

This could be the 'moment' when the interfering nannyism of coercive government may be putting themselves squarely into the mind of the average citizen, and they do finally say: enough already

 

[Bramble]

In fact I'm reading this article about why bidis were banned, and this seems relevant:

Sutra Bidis Red, Sutra Bidis Menthol, Sutra Bidis Red Cone, and Sutra Bidis Menthol Cone -- which are manufactured by Jash International -- were found to be “not substantially equivalent” to tobacco products that had been previously sold as of Feb. 15, 2007. The term designates items that may cause additional health harms compared to approved products.

They 're going to have a hard time showing that e-cigarettes cause additional health harms compared to cigarettes (or their approved cessation drug, Chantix, for that matter).

Again maybe I'm not seeing all the angles but I am not allowing my undergarments to deviate from their smooth and correctly-fitting configuration at this time.

 

[Atchafalaya]

Oh I hope you are right CabinetGuy

 

[Bramble]

:woot: !!

That would be some sweet irony ... and no doubts the lawyers are going to have a great time of fighting it all back

[...]

Hoisted on their own petard, so to speak. If everyone were walking around scratching their heads saying, "Golly these are so new and different, we just don't know what to do with them..." THEN they might have a better chance of using non-equivalency against it.

Here's another thought. If e-cigs were so unlike regular cigs, then WHY do we have the continual drumbeat against them, from the anti-smoking organizations? It's not only the government, it's the ALA and Tobacco Free Kids saying that these are the same thing as smoking. Heck they're even calling the young people who are vaping, "the next generation of smokers." Many are saying e-cigs are the next version in the evolution of cigarettes.

And no one is claiming that people are getting tobacco-related diseases from vaping so the "additional harm" thing is really unlikely to happen.

 

[_Lee]

reminds me of the old story :

They came for the Jews and I did nothing
They came for the Blacks and I did nothing
They came for the Asians and I did nothing
They came for the Whites and I did nothing
They came for me and there was no one was left to help me.

 

[Stosh]

What scares me the most is the lawyers, we may prevail in the long term as the facts are on our side. It's the years and years of litigation it would take to "win". Overturning the laws and regulations should be possible, but the time it may take could be the death knell of vaping.

 

[sonicdsl]

If you would like more information on the whys, whos, wheres, whens and whats, please see these sources:

Legislation News
Media and General News
EU Legislation
Campaigning discussions
CASAA

CASAA - The Consumer Advocates for Smoke-free Alternatives Association

E-Cigarette Politics

Anti-THR Lies and related topics | because cultivating the truth requires both seeding and weeding

http://rodutobaccotruth.blogspot.com/

http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/

 

[CabinetGuyScott]

In fact I'm reading this article about why bidis were banned, and this seems relevant:

They 're going to have a hard time showing that e-cigarettes cause additional health harms compared to cigarettes (or their approved cessation drug, Chantix, for that matter).

Again maybe I'm not seeing all the angles but I am not allowing my undergarments to deviate from their smooth and correctly-fitting configuration at this time.

You guys are on a roll with this one!!

(still cannot fathom that people do not know about the 100's of 'successful suicides' due to chantix!)

This exchange leads to an interesting thought... assuming the worst case scenario, and the FDA deem their butts off and oppressively regulate e-cigs.

What is it going to look like when they end up in court?

Ps - Bramble I'm sure we all are very glad to hear that about your undergarments!

 

[Bramble]

You guys are on a roll with this one!!

(still cannot fathom that people do not know about the 100's of 'successful suicides' due to chantix!)

This exchange leads to an interesting thought... assuming the worst case scenario, and the FDA deem their butts off and oppressively regulate e-cigs.

What is it going to look like when they end up in court?

Ps - Bramble I'm sure we all are very glad to hear that about your undergarments!

LOL well getting the britches in a twist isn't useful to me.

But I am thinking about the flavor issue. Because if eCigs are meant to be regulated like tobacco, then flavors would seem to be prohibited. But I think the spirit of that regulation is not to mask the natural flavor of tobacco to make it more "enticing." Of course, since e-cigs don't have a natural flavor, there is nothing to mask. I guess if they want to try to ban or regulate food flavorings and anything that could be added to eLiquid to give it a flavor that would be kind of rough.

 

[wv2win]

If I'm understanding the concept of equivalency correctly, it seems that the states are already shooting that in the foot by treating them the same way as they treat tobacco. Governments are already saying that e-cigs are so sufficiently equivalent to cigarettes that they equate the vapor to smoke and the nicotine to tobacco.

Maybe that will be the saving argument against "non-equivalency." WE are not the one saying they're the same... the government itself is, in most places.

If I have mis-grokked what we mean by equivalency I would happily have it explained to me better

As I understand the "equivalency" and "deeming regulations", it has nothing to do (from a vaping standpoint) with analogs. It means that any device or means to vape that is different or new or exceeds what was available pre-2007, will be outlawed. So it could be interpreted to mean that the only vaping options that will be legally available will be small cig-a-likes (90 mAh batteries) with the eliquid in sealed carts. Think about that being the only option available when you need a new kit or some e-liquid.

 

[sonicdsl]

As I understand the "equivalency" and "deeming regulations", it has nothing to do (from a vaping standpoint) with analogs. It means that any device or means to vape that is different or new or exceeds what was available pre-2007, will be outlawed. So it could be interpreted to mean that the only vaping options that will be legally available will be small cig-a-likes (90 mAh batteries) with the eliquid in sealed carts. Think about that being the only option available when you need a new kit or some e-liquid.

And the appropriate initial reaction should be: 8-o 8-o

 

[Bramble]

As I understand the "equivalency" and "deeming regulations", it has nothing to do (from a vaping standpoint) with analogs. It means that any device or means to vape that is different or new or exceeds what was available pre-2007, will be outlawed. So it could be interpreted to mean that the only vaping options that will be legally available will be small cig-a-likes (90 mAh batteries) with the eliquid in sealed carts. Think about that being the only option available when you need a new kit or some e-liquid.

8-o 8-o

And the appropriate initial reaction should be: 8-o 8-o

And so it is...