Just caught one too when cutting and pasting - propogated - Should be prop-A-gated -
GREAT JOB ! THANKS FROM ME TOO !
GREAT JOB ! THANKS FROM ME TOO !
How we know PG is safer than analog cigarettes
- Thread starter Spikey
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
- Status
Thanks
Guys... please use the LINK to the webpage where I posted all the info to cut and paste info from as it was edited to fix all spelling errors!! The post is no longer editable for me!!!!
Just saw a commercial for celebrex...
Re: Celebrex.. The FDA states the benefits outweigh the risks.
Hmmm... may be useful!!!!
Re: Celebrex.. The FDA states the benefits outweigh the risks.
Hmmm... may be useful!!!!
About the PG, and some biological facts about it.
First, it's highly soluble in water, which means it will cross the lungs into the bloodstream very easily. Certainly, the majority of the PG is exhaled when vaping, but some does enter circulation.
In the liver, it's metabolized to pyruvate, lactic acid, and ocasionally to small quantities of acetic acid. These are all naturally occurring biomolecules, and our bodies do have the ability to metabolize them further. Pyruvate is the end product of glycolysis (or anaerobic respiration/metabolism). Pyruvate is converted to lactic acid in the muscles in anerobic conditions (i.e. exercising in the absence of available oxygen...this is why muscles get sore after a workout). Pyruvate, under normal conditions, is passed on to the tricarboxcylic acid cycle (TCA, or citric acid cycle), which in turn produces ATP/GTP, NADH, QH2, and CO2. The first three are used either directly as energy, or are passed on and used in the electron transport chain. Carbon dioxide is of course a waste product, with an acidic nature.
What's important to recognize here is that the initial metabolites and almost all of the intermediates are acids/have acidic components. The symptoms most commonly quoted by people who use e-cigs (nausea, headache, mainly), are also the main symptoms of ketoacidosis, or acidosis, if you prefer. If you're vaping alot, and taking in enough PG to throw your metabolism slightly off kilter, it's probably NOT the nicotine causing the symptoms. It's probably mild acidosis. Because the metabolic products of PG are naturally occurring, to stop the symtoms, just cut down on the amount of vaping you do.
Another thing: comercially prepared PG is generally a racemic mixture...meaning the PG molecules in solution are about 50% right handed and 50% left handed. The enzyme responsible for the metabolism of PG is alcohol dehydrogenase (the same enzyme that metabolizes alcohol). If you want to find information about harmful side effects, the most likely place to look would be for studies on D/L Lactate Acidosis.
What you can conclude from this is that, yes, PG is generally harmless, when used/inhaled in moderate or controlled amounts. However, people who overuse or have some related conditions (diabetes comes to mind immediately) will be more susceptible to adverse effects. While the metabolic products of PG are perfectly natural, the substance itself is NOT, and will have some disagreeable, and perhaps harmful, side-effects. Are these as bad as smoking analogs...surely not, but the safety of PG use is an issue relative to the user and the amount used.
And just so you know...I love vaping...have been at it for two weeks now with no regular tobacco smoked. I'm a molecular biologist, and have been a smoker for 28 years...so I did my research to ensure that switching to vaping wasn't going to kill me faster than the smokes did.
First, it's highly soluble in water, which means it will cross the lungs into the bloodstream very easily. Certainly, the majority of the PG is exhaled when vaping, but some does enter circulation.
In the liver, it's metabolized to pyruvate, lactic acid, and ocasionally to small quantities of acetic acid. These are all naturally occurring biomolecules, and our bodies do have the ability to metabolize them further. Pyruvate is the end product of glycolysis (or anaerobic respiration/metabolism). Pyruvate is converted to lactic acid in the muscles in anerobic conditions (i.e. exercising in the absence of available oxygen...this is why muscles get sore after a workout). Pyruvate, under normal conditions, is passed on to the tricarboxcylic acid cycle (TCA, or citric acid cycle), which in turn produces ATP/GTP, NADH, QH2, and CO2. The first three are used either directly as energy, or are passed on and used in the electron transport chain. Carbon dioxide is of course a waste product, with an acidic nature.
What's important to recognize here is that the initial metabolites and almost all of the intermediates are acids/have acidic components. The symptoms most commonly quoted by people who use e-cigs (nausea, headache, mainly), are also the main symptoms of ketoacidosis, or acidosis, if you prefer. If you're vaping alot, and taking in enough PG to throw your metabolism slightly off kilter, it's probably NOT the nicotine causing the symptoms. It's probably mild acidosis. Because the metabolic products of PG are naturally occurring, to stop the symtoms, just cut down on the amount of vaping you do.
Another thing: comercially prepared PG is generally a racemic mixture...meaning the PG molecules in solution are about 50% right handed and 50% left handed. The enzyme responsible for the metabolism of PG is alcohol dehydrogenase (the same enzyme that metabolizes alcohol). If you want to find information about harmful side effects, the most likely place to look would be for studies on D/L Lactate Acidosis.
What you can conclude from this is that, yes, PG is generally harmless, when used/inhaled in moderate or controlled amounts. However, people who overuse or have some related conditions (diabetes comes to mind immediately) will be more susceptible to adverse effects. While the metabolic products of PG are perfectly natural, the substance itself is NOT, and will have some disagreeable, and perhaps harmful, side-effects. Are these as bad as smoking analogs...surely not, but the safety of PG use is an issue relative to the user and the amount used.
And just so you know...I love vaping...have been at it for two weeks now with no regular tobacco smoked. I'm a molecular biologist, and have been a smoker for 28 years...so I did my research to ensure that switching to vaping wasn't going to kill me faster than the smokes did.
Excellent. Any blood test done on a user should include a blood PH figure. It's one of the first results I look at when getting blood work. Since I began steady e-smoking 17 months ago, my PH is always in the "normal" range -- and I'm a heavy, heavy user of nicotine and PG vapor.
Good to have your knowledge here.
Good to have your knowledge here.
My pleasure...you can throw questions my way anytime you want.
Great community here BTW...and great info in this thread.
Great community here BTW...and great info in this thread.
Seconding what Bob said - great to have you on board.
Quick question - Any thoughts on PEG 200/400?
SmokeyJoe
Quick question - Any thoughts on PEG 200/400?
SmokeyJoe
PEG 200/400/...8000, etc. Isn't really that much different than PG, chemically. The difference between the two, constituatively, is the ethylene component of PEG. The different molecular weights is due to the insertion of x number of ethylene moieties between the two ends of the molecule.
PEG of all molecular weights are safe; hell, you can tag proteins with it for use in hepatitis and cancer treatment...but since you're going to metabolize this, you're going to want to keep to the lower molecular weight PG. At the same time, PEG doesn't have any harmful listed effects from inhalation. I don't know the metabolic products off hand, but I suspect for the lower MW 200 and 400, they're similar to PG.
Personally, I'd never use PEG...it's a common dehydrating agent in sample preparation for electron microscopy. At the very least, I'd expect a sore throat from using it.
PEG of all molecular weights are safe; hell, you can tag proteins with it for use in hepatitis and cancer treatment...but since you're going to metabolize this, you're going to want to keep to the lower molecular weight PG. At the same time, PEG doesn't have any harmful listed effects from inhalation. I don't know the metabolic products off hand, but I suspect for the lower MW 200 and 400, they're similar to PG.
Personally, I'd never use PEG...it's a common dehydrating agent in sample preparation for electron microscopy. At the very least, I'd expect a sore throat from using it.
Atreides Ghola - welcome! Good to have you here. Any thoughts on how PG metabolism affects people with fibromyalgia?
Thanks.
______________
Thanks.
______________
I don't know much about fibromyalgia...but I'll take at the literature and see what I can come up with. Stay tuned.
Atreides,
I would love to ask so many questions!
But I do have one that might interest many vapers, not just me: when leaving analogs and going towards vaping, whether one does this instantly or over time or even only partially, what can one do to help one's lungs recover most fully? Are there any beneficial steps that most people can take to help their health at this point?
Best,
C.
I would love to ask so many questions!
But I do have one that might interest many vapers, not just me: when leaving analogs and going towards vaping, whether one does this instantly or over time or even only partially, what can one do to help one's lungs recover most fully? Are there any beneficial steps that most people can take to help their health at this point?
Best,
C.
Well, keep in mind that I'm a biologist...not a medical professional. My wife is a lung cancer researcher, however, and I'll run some questions past her.
In anticipation of what she'll say: don't smoke anologs anymore, and drink goodly amounts of water; your lungs start recovering immediately after you quit smoking...this is true even between cigarettes. There's really nothing you can do to speed up the process besides staying off the smokes.
I've looked into the fibromyalgia question, and while there are a lot of signal transduction pathways (i.e. molecular reaction pathways in cells) that have been implicated in the disease, the research is all over the place. The most frequently mentioned pathways are neurotransmitter pathways (seratonin, dopamine and others). I'd say the vaping is probably better for you than anologs, since tobacco smoke contains a number of chemicals that are neurologically active, besides the nicotine.
I'll read up some more and report back.
In anticipation of what she'll say: don't smoke anologs anymore, and drink goodly amounts of water; your lungs start recovering immediately after you quit smoking...this is true even between cigarettes. There's really nothing you can do to speed up the process besides staying off the smokes.
I've looked into the fibromyalgia question, and while there are a lot of signal transduction pathways (i.e. molecular reaction pathways in cells) that have been implicated in the disease, the research is all over the place. The most frequently mentioned pathways are neurotransmitter pathways (seratonin, dopamine and others). I'd say the vaping is probably better for you than anologs, since tobacco smoke contains a number of chemicals that are neurologically active, besides the nicotine.
I'll read up some more and report back.
Atreides, I really appreciate your kindness in researching for us. I shall drink more water! Had wondered if I should start going back to the gym more - till Christmas was doing a lot of CV work, but in March went from heavy analog use to vaping overnight and I wonder if it's such a smart idea to do CV training while lungs are healing and body is getting used to such radical changes. Perhaps I'm just being lazy!
Best,
C.
PS Promise also that's my last question! Welcome to the forum and sorry to have landed you with "work"!!!!
Best,
C.
PS Promise also that's my last question! Welcome to the forum and sorry to have landed you with "work"!!!!
Last edited:
We've probably all heard smokers referred to as "stupid." Well, I challenge anyone whose said something ignorant like that to match wits with you, Atreides Ghola!
One more thing: there is something interesting about a longtime smoker being married to a lung cancer researcher. Am I the only one that caught that?
I thought that was ironic too
So busy with PMs (sorry everyone!) that I have not had a chance to post til now.
- Status
Similar threads
