I do wonder why

[redeyes24321]

^Based on your name and the state you're in, I can imagine another FDA debate that gets to you.

Yes.... but I cant grow e liquid.

 

[Dusif]

Just something interesting I found....



And this was going on over 40 years ago... Imagine how much worse it is now.

Its exactly that kinda stuff we need anonymous or any other capable hacktivist to dig up evidence for... The fda should have NO money related reasons for anything
And bt and bp should be punished and if not just stopped in their attempts to affect outcomes of studies that can give the red or green light for a product


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

 

[DC2]

Has anyone questioned the source of all the "research" on the news and what not? I recently saw an article that said gaping was bad because you get particles of metal and silica in your lungs from smoking but any caper who gets products from vendors (endorsed?) by ecf and other quality vapor sites seems to know how to wash out rba's before you use them and get quality silica or whatever material you use as wick. the general public, many of whom seem to be in the fence with these products, will see that bs and view them as negative. I wonder where they get there test materials and if they follow the warnings and such that are all over about the products. I would like to see where they get the stuff they test that might shed some light on a little of there propaganda.

If you frequent the Media and General News subforum you will get answers to all of those questions.
Every study that comes out is discussed thoroughly in that subforum by people who know what they are talking about.

 

[DC2]

Yes it will never get "banned". They want it regulated to the point that we will only have cig-a-likes manufactured in clean labs that only Big-T or Big-Pharma can afford to build. They will also try to regulate flavors down to regular and menthol, just like they did with analogs.

And possibly even limit nicotine strength so electronic cigarettes are no longer successful.
Doing so is entirely within the realm of the powers given to the FDA over tobacco products through the FSPTCA.

 

[DC2]

Well it may just be a 'manufactured crisis' getting everyone to panic then lo and behold!! We're suddenly grateful when they slap a huge tax on them and tell us we can vape on and come out looking like heroes. I have several other conspiracy theories, but that one fits my current whim.

None of the people in the trenches fighting daily against potential bans is going to be grateful if that happens.
I hope we all fight just as hard against that as any of the other things that they have done and tried to do to us over the last four years.

And when I say bans, I am referring to any or all of the following...
--Outright bans like the FDA tried in 2009
--Banning of flavors
--Banning their use in all non-smoking areas
--Banning online sales
--Any other types of "bans" they have attempted

 

[DC2]

Fear tactics.... scare all the sheep back to he "beneficial shepherd" (who really is the wolf -our government), Make spurious claims about how dangerous electronic cigarettes are, and then put forth a bunch of legislation against them before anyone can prove the allegations false (which is what the FDA is doing in October). It's about money, control, and politics. The government doesn't care about our health.... only it's own.

Just to be clear, the FDA intends only to propose the regulations in October.
Then there will be an extended public comment period.
Then they will issue the final regulations.

And it's quite possible that October will come and go without such a proposal.
They have already said three times over the last few years that they were going to do it and then did not.

 

[GameDesigner]

Just to be clear, the FDA intends only to propose the regulations in October.
Then there will be an extended public comment period.
Then they will issue the final regulations.

And it's quite possible that October will come and go without such a proposal.
They have already said three times over the last few years that they were going to do it and then did not.

Quick aside: Could the FDA legally regulate 0mg liquids? How is a non-nic liquid a tobacco product? I ask because vaping means more than just the nic to me. Wondering if I should start seriously lowering my nic levels in increments, working to nothing with hopes that I can continue to vape without the FDA ....lords permission even after they cash BP and BT's checks.

 

[DC2]

Quick aside: Could the FDA legally regulate 0mg liquids? How is a non-nic liquid a tobacco product?

In my opinion, zero nicotine liquid is not a tobacco product and I don't think they could regulate it.
I'm entirely unclear as to what ramifications there would be if that is true.


I do know that the FDA could potentially regulate devices themselves though.
But again, I don't what ramifications there would be if they tried.

It's a good question that I don't recall seeing discussed in depth around here before.
Which makes it perhaps the only thing that hasn't been discussed in depth around here before.

 

[GameDesigner]

In my opinion, zero nicotine liquid is not a tobacco product and I don't think they could regulate it.
I'm entirely unclear as to what ramifications there would be if that is true.


I do know that the FDA could potentially regulate devices themselves though.
But again, I don't what ramifications there would be if they tried.

It's a good question that I don't recall seeing discussed in depth around here before.
Which makes it perhaps the only thing that hasn't been discussed in depth around here before.

I'm surprised. This stuff has me shook, so I've been thinking on it.

 

[suspectK]

Yes.... but I cant grow e liquid.

It won't pop out of the ground bottled and ready to go, but nicotine extraction is very easy. The tobacco that you'd do it with is the toughest part of it. It'd be easy to just get tobacco from a store and do it, but there are going to be a lot of water soluble compounds along with the nicotine in what you'd be getting. I don't want to possibly break rules by stating what will ensure that you are getting pure tobacco..

 

[DC2]

It won't pop out of the ground bottled and ready to go, but nicotine extraction is very easy. The tobacco that you'd do it with is the toughest part of it. It'd be easy to just get tobacco from a store and do it, but there are going to be a lot of water soluble compounds along with the nicotine in what you'd be getting. I don't want to possibly break rules by stating what will ensure that you are getting pure tobacco..

There are a number of chemists here, and many conversations on extracting nicotine.

From what I understand, many people think it is easy.
But the ways they are thinking of doing it yield extremely low results.

According to the chemists among us, it isn't all that easy, and requires special equipment to get a reasonable amount of nicotine.

I don't know if that is true or not, I'm just saying that's what I hear from credible sources.
I would love to see a discussion that yields a definitive answer to this question.

Here is one such thread from way back in the days when the FDA almost succeeding in banning us...
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/32414-extracting-nicotine-tobacco.html

 

[SissySpike]

I still think Vendors could sell us juice with a small vial of nicotine to be used as a pesticide. There will be a very strict warning not to put it in to you 0 nic juice.

 

[ScottP]

I still think Vendors could sell us juice with a small vial of nicotine to be used as a pesticide. There will be a very strict warning not to put it in to you 0 nic juice.

The problem with that is if sold as pesticide it does NOT have to be pharmaceutical grade like it does if used for consumption. You could end up with some mixed with Demon, Strychnine or some other lethal substance.

 

[DC2]

I still think Vendors could sell us juice with a small vial of nicotine to be used as a pesticide. There will be a very strict warning not to put it in to you 0 nic juice.

The European Union is phasing out the use of nicotine pesticides.

I was under the impression that the United States was doing the same, but I'm not sure, and this is all I can find...
http://www.epa.gov/oppsrrd1/REDs/nicotine_red.pdf

This document presents the Environmental Protection Agency’s (EPA’s or the Agency’s) decision regarding the reregistration eligibility of the registered uses of the active ingredient nicotine. The Agency conducted human health and environmental fate and effects risk assessments for nicotine non-food uses. The registrant of the sole remaining nicotine pesticide product requested the cancellation of its registration on February 25, 2008, to be effective on December 31, 2013, with existing stocks permitted to be sold by dealers and distributors for one additional year. The Agency has accepted this request in concept, and it is subject to notice and public comment. If public comment provides no information that causes the Agency to reconsider, the Agency may accept the cancellation request.

The assessment of risks for the pesticidal use of nicotine is unique in that much of the supporting data is drawn from the open literature, as opposed to studies conducted according to Agency guidelines, and the data that are available are not entirely wellmatched to anticipated routes of exposure and use patterns for the nicotine pesticide. The lack of more relevant data adds considerable uncertainty to the risk assessment and would necessitate that the Agency call-in data from a range of guideline studies. Ultimately, the process the Agency undertook to assess risks and formulate reregistration eligibility decisions was overtaken by the registrant’s request for cancellation. The Agency is finalizing this reregistration eligibility decision as a record of the database and methodologies that were used to assess nicotine and the Agency’s preliminary conclusions about the risks associated with its use.

The sole remaining nicotine registration, for which cancellation has been requested, is a Restricted Use Pesticide used on greenhouse ornamentals, including poinsettias, bedding plants, and chrysanthemums to control whiteflies, aphids, and thrips. Nicotine has been known for its pesticidal properties for centuries, and came into common use in the U.S. about sixty years ago. Production and usage are now quite limited.

Using the limited available data, EPA has assessed the human health risks for the remaining nicotine registration and has concluded that risks for workers both during and after application, and for consumers of plants from treated greenhouses and members of the public who might be exposed to nicotine residues in treated greenhouses, are potentially of concern. Nicotine is not used on any food and feed crops so dietary risks have not been assessed. Because nicotine is used in greenhouses only, drinking water and ecological risks were not assessed for this use pattern, although the Agency did assess the ecological risks associated with another nicotine product used outdoors to repel vertebrate pests of ornamentals which has since been cancelled. The ecological risk assessment and an assessment of episodic ingestion of the nicotine repellant product are posted to the nicotine docket, as are the technical documents supporting the human health risk assessment for the nicotine greenhouse use.

 

[SissySpike]

The problem with that is if sold as pesticide it does NOT have to be pharmaceutical grade like it does if used for consumption. You could end up with some mixed with Demon, Strychnine or some other lethal substance.

Come on, why would they really sell me pesticide? its just a way to get around a regulation It could be called a metal polish ect.... If they can sell dope and call it bath salts surely they can sell Nic and call it something different also.

 

[Dusif]

Quick aside: Could the FDA legally regulate 0mg liquids? How is a non-nic liquid a tobacco product? I ask because vaping means more than just the nic to me. Wondering if I should start seriously lowering my nic levels in increments, working to nothing with hopes that I can continue to vape without the FDA ....lords permission even after they cash BP and BT's checks.

Here in denmark they are trying to regulate the 0mg liquids as well, and i have a hunch they might make it happen if nothing is done.

if anyone has a VPN (GameDesigner i suspect you might have?) try to get in touch with anonymous and direct their attention towards the fact that BP and BT might be bribing the govs and FDA's of the world to ban the sale of E-Cigs
some of the Anons care about health and they are all devoted to stop big companies from trying to control the world with money, so odds are they will find it funny digging up the actual reasons the govs and fda's has to banning E-Cigs

NOTE!:
do NOT try to contact anonymous from your home computer if you do not have any internet safety as they are not well liked by law enforcers of any kind

 

[degnr8]

Come on, why would they really sell me pesticide? its just a way to get around a regulation It could be called a metal polish ect.... If they can sell dope and call it bath salts surely they can sell Nic and call it something different also.

Makes sense to me. I used to order absinthe from Europe and it usually came labeled as anise oil