I guess I'm going to have to die sooner than I thought.

[coolerat]

My guess, and its just that a guess, is the worst of us is gonna be the high nic tootle puffers.

I'm not anti-nic, actually I think I'm in love with it, but did you see some of those nic numbers in the thread the other day??

The body can get used to things and adjust day to day and slam ya from behind later. I got to learn this first hand with alcohol. People use it everyday with no trouble and I seemed to handle it better then most. Turned out it only seemed like I could.

I'm thinking with what seemed like most of our intake vaping is like having a few beers. But the two extremes of small amounts of high nic and large amounts of low nic have got to be bad.

I'm lucky in that a normal amount of low flavored/ low nic make me happy.

Seems like picking high nic or alot of flavoring is rolling the dice. If I had to choose I think I'd rick the flavoring but again I'm lucky and don't have to choose.

 

[YoursTruli]

COPD in the early stages may not ever get better but it doesn't get worse.

COPD is an umbrella term used to describe progressive lung diseases including emphysema, chronic bronchitis, refractory (non-reversible) asthma, and some forms of bronchiectasis.

 

[VNeil]

and the other side of that is going to be "no way it was vaping that caused BO/lung disease/COPD/decrease in lung function... logically it's because they were a smoker/factory worker/chef/coffee roasting worker for howevermany+ years and should be attributed to that not to ecig use. So, everytime I see someone saying if vaping caused any problems we would know and see reports by now when logically it could be and probably is being contributed to something else instead by doctors or it falls in the we are not sure what caused this file when there could be multiple contributing factors..... when vaping may be the actual cause.

Actually, most people instinctively relate cause/effect to things they are currently doing, not things they stopped doing long ago or even relatively long ago.

I would guess, just based on anecdotal discussions here, that 30-50% of doctors are anti-vape, many with a religious fervor. So it is not logical or reasonable to assume that statistically significant numbers of people are showing up at their doctors with vape related ailments, but the docs are all sweeping it under the rug. A significant portion of those docs would LOVE to blame vaping. Others have healthy curiosity and skepticism.

There are millions of vapers. It is simply not logical to assume that there are currently significant problems that are being universally swept under the rug. Especially considering that this is probably the single most controversial medical related topic that the medical community deals with now. There is simply too much awareness, too much curiosity, and too much vape hate out there. Something would be getting through those cracks.

 

[VNeil]

My guess, and its just that a guess, is the worst of us is gonna be the high nic tootle puffers.

I'm not anti-nic, actually I think I'm in love with it, but did you see some of those nic numbers in the thread the other day??

The body can get used to things and adjust day to day and slam ya from behind later. I got to learn this first hand with alcohol. People use it everyday with no trouble and I seemed to handle it better then most. Turned out it only seemed like I could.

I'm thinking with what seemed like most of our intake vaping is like having a few beers. But the two extremes of small amounts of high nic and large amounts of low nic have got to be bad.

I'm lucky in that a normal amount of low flavored/ low nic make me happy.

Seems like picking high nic or alot of flavoring is rolling the dice. If I had to choose I think I'd rick the flavoring but again I'm lucky and don't have to choose.

Before you start equating nic with alcohol, you might want to read this: Nicotine Propaganda

And do other research. Nic is really not evil. It actually is known to have some health benefits.

 

[puddinman]

COPD is an umbrella term used to describe progressive lung diseases including emphysema, chronic bronchitis, refractory (non-reversible) asthma, and some forms of bronchiectasis.

If smoking is causing the COPD and you stop smoking early enough, you can significantly slow the progression. Thus, if former smokers who vape have their disease progress as if they are still smoking, that would implicate vaping. Of course, if they are still exposed to secondhand smoke, that complicates the issue as does their level of fitness, etc.

Like I said, it will be hard to tease out the effects of smoking from vaping. Consider this: if a smoker was never diagnosed with COPD but had indeed developed early stages of disease, even if they stop smoking the disease will progress, albeit slowly. If they vape for 20 years and are then diagnosed with COPD, was it the smoking or the vaping? I would say the smoking but there's no way to tell. A doctor would most likely blame the vaping. Difficult issue, for sure.

EDIT: And I did misspeak in my earlier post when I said "halt." COPD progress is not stopped, merely slowed down.

 

[jpargana]

and the other side of that is going to be "no way it was vaping that caused BO/lung disease/COPD/decrease in lung function... logically it's because they were a smoker/factory worker/chef/coffee roasting worker for howevermany+ years and should be attributed to that not to ecig use. So, everytime I see someone saying if vaping caused any problems we would know and see reports by now when logically it could be and probably is being contributed to something else instead by doctors or it falls in the we are not sure what caused this file when there could be multiple contributing factors..... when vaping may be the actual cause.

Yes. *May*. Not *It was*, just like we have heard all over the news. And Dr Farsalinos had to calmly explain to his fellow doctors who endorsed that nonsense how PG and VG are NOT lipids. Even I already knew that, and I'm no doctor.


If I drank several pints of beer, followed by a coffe, I would not blame the coffe, firsthand, for having a headache the next morning.

Sure, It *could* be the coffe after all, but alchool abuse is known to give people hangovers.


Likewise, smoking is *known* to give people lung diseases. In that case, it was the main suspect, IMO.

 

[jpargana]

This is a great point. With the proportion of smokers who took up vaping, confounded by those who smoke and vape, it's going to be difficult to tease out which problems are vape related and which are smoking related. And we, as vapers, have to fight the natural human urge to deny problems.

Stopping smoking has proven to halt the progress of most respiratory illnesses; COPD in the early stages may not ever get better but it doesn't get worse. I will be convinced when a large proportion of vapers who don't smoke anymore or never did start getting sick or continue to worsen.

There is already some evidence to show that trading smoking for vaping has made people better from their illnesses, not just "not worse" - even for dual users.

First study to demonstrate improvements in smoking asthma patients after switching to e-cigarette use
First study to demonstrate improvements in smoking asthma patients after switching to e-cigarette use
Effect of Smoking Abstinence and Reduction in Asthmatic Smokers Switching to Electronic Cigarettes: Evidence for Harm Reversal
IJERPH | Free Full-Text | Effect of Smoking Abstinence and Reduction in Asthmatic Smokers Switching to Electronic Cigarettes: Evidence for Harm Reversal

 

[Captain Pegleg]

I'm not talking shops, but e-liquid manufacturers. What brands sell flavorless base? I can't think of any others. Nikoticket is huge and I don't see base on their site, same with Johnson Creek...

Flavorless - VistaVapors, Inc.

This was the first site I bought liquid from when i started vaping, so it can't be that hard to find...

 

[Asbestos4004]

Capella is the ones I like.

4 oz is about the biggest you'll get from capella without a biz licence and a tax id number. That's why I order 4 at a time. 3 v1's and a v2 so I can tell myself I care.

 

[Captain Pegleg]

My guess, and its just that a guess, is the worst of us is gonna be the high nic tootle puffers.

I'm not anti-nic, actually I think I'm in love with it, but did you see some of those nic numbers in the thread the other day??

The body can get used to things and adjust day to day and slam ya from behind later. I got to learn this first hand with alcohol. People use it everyday with no trouble and I seemed to handle it better then most. Turned out it only seemed like I could.

I'm thinking with what seemed like most of our intake vaping is like having a few beers. But the two extremes of small amounts of high nic and large amounts of low nic have got to be bad.

I'm lucky in that a normal amount of low flavored/ low nic make me happy.

Seems like picking high nic or alot of flavoring is rolling the dice. If I had to choose I think I'd rick the flavoring but again I'm lucky and don't have to choose.

Blowing clouds of VG at high temperatures makes me feel icky after a while, and also doing it first thing in the morning is Very uncomfortable, leading me to believe that it's quite irritating to the throat, so I gotta say that's worse than a clearomizer with even 18mg nicotine...that said I Never got used to vaping too much 24mg nicotine, that gave me a headache if I overdid it for the two weeks I used it. Dunno man...

 

[suprtrkr]

I mind a time, several decades back, when my sainted old mother, long dead now these many years, read or saw on TV something about the smoke crust on barbecued meats being bad for you and she informed my brother and myself we were going to have to quit barbecuing every weekend as we had been doing for years. We looked at each other, then turned to mom and said "we're gonna die." Turns out it either wasn't all that bad for me, or it hasn't caught up with me yet as I am still eating barbeque and I am still alive.

 

[Robert Cromwell]

4 oz is about the biggest you'll get from capella without a biz licence and a tax id number. That's why I order 4 at a time. 3 v1's and a v2 so I can tell myself I care.

Ecigexpress has the 120ml for about $13. RTS wants about $18.

 

[Asbestos4004]

Ecigexpress has the 120ml for about $13. RTS wants about $18.

I usually go straight through Capella. ECX always seems to be out of stock...I blame you.

 

[Robert Cromwell]

I usually go straight through Capella. ECX always seems to be out of stock...I blame you.

I did just place sn order with them a day or so ago.

 

[DC2]

I feel that vaping is safer than smoking. But vaping cannot be safer than not vaping, there is a price to pay for everything we do in life.

I'm still willing to make the argument that vaping MIGHT be better than not vaping.
Notice I didn't say "safer" there, although I wouldn't yet rule out the possibility that it is no less safe.

But the benefits of nicotine may very well outweigh the negative effects of vaping.
Assuming, of course, there ARE any negative effects.

And that's not even bringing into play the potential benefits of having a nice PG vapor killing germs.
All around your house.

I expect that the ones who will first suffer from any negative effects of vaping will be the sub ohming klowd puffing vapers. They ingest the most vaping ingredients.

That's pretty much a given.

And I'm glad they've volunteered themselves to be the bigger guinea pigs.
Because I never really wanted to be a guinea pig when it comes to flavorings.

My guess, and its just that a guess, is the worst of us is gonna be the high nic tootle puffers.

This makes no sense to me in any way, shape, or form.
Nicotine has almost zero chance of being worse for you than some flavorings might be.

 

[mark40511]

I haven't been to the forums in quite a while......I just saw a tweet so that's what brought me back here. I've been vaping so LONG but I have a dumb question, because, although I have vaped for YEARS now, I don't really keep up with much because I'm happy with my setup. I buy 24 mg HUGE bottle of menthol eliquid from myfreedomsmokes and I have always cut it with VG, distilled water, and menthol drops and a drop of tobacco absolute. Probably by the time I cut it and mix it, I'm guessing I'm getting about 5 mg of nic.. Now - I noticed some of you were talking about flavorings and this popcorn lung thing. I don't use any flavorings at all and I never have. But is menthol considered a flavoring? I once tried mint choc chip and it was GROSS. I just never could get into the flavors and menthol has always been my fav, so I just never really browsed around at what flavors are out there, at least not in the past few years......

 

[AndriaD]

I'm still willing to make the argument that vaping MIGHT be better than not vaping.
Notice I didn't say "safer" there, although I wouldn't yet rule out the possibility that it is no less safe.

But the benefits of nicotine may very well outweigh the negative effects of vaping.
Assuming, of course, there ARE any negative effects.

And that's not even bringing into play the potential benefits of having a nice PG vapor killing germs.
All around your house.



That's pretty much a given.

And I'm glad they've volunteered themselves to be the bigger guinea pigs.
Because I never really wanted to be a guinea pig when it comes to flavorings.


This makes no sense to me in any way, shape, or form.
Nicotine has almost zero chance of being worse for you than some flavorings might be.

I agree with all that! Far better to vape 5ml of 9mg a day, than 9ml of 5mg per day -- the end result is the same, 45mg of nic per day, but the amount of PG/VG and flavorings is nearly doubled. I know everyone thinks the flavors are the big bad guys, but some of us have to worry about the actual carrier -- the PG/VG.

And anyway... since when is 9mg "high nicotine"?

Andria

 

[coolerat]

I wasn't aware that inhaling any of this stuff long term was proven to be 100% safe??

So its back to risk avoidance.

And we are all different. Today vs tomorrow stuff.

PG knocks me on my .... today. But VG might catch up with me tomorrow.

Into the great unknown I go without sword or shield.

 

[Wow1420]

I haven't been to the forums in quite a while......I just saw a tweet so that's what brought me back here. I've been vaping so LONG but I have a dumb question, because, although I have vaped for YEARS now, I don't really keep up with much because I'm happy with my setup. I buy 24 mg HUGE bottle of menthol eliquid from myfreedomsmokes and I have always cut it with VG, distilled water, and menthol drops and a drop of tobacco absolute. Probably by the time I cut it and mix it, I'm guessing I'm getting about 5 mg of nic.. Now - I noticed some of you were talking about flavorings and this popcorn lung thing. I don't use any flavorings at all and I never have. But is menthol considered a flavoring? I once tried mint choc chip and it was GROSS. I just never could get into the flavors and menthol has always been my fav, so I just never really browsed around at what flavors are out there, at least not in the past few years......

I've also been a menthol fan, (tho recently switched to unflavored) and tried to find something on the safety of vaping it. As far as I know, menthol does not contain any diacetyl or other diketone components. It's used in steam inhalers for cold symptom relief without much concern, it seems. So, for myself, I decided I'm OK with continuing to use it occasionally.

 

[Alien Traveler]

I'm talking about e-liquid. The first DIY I made was something I came up with myself, using the few flavours I had on hand - watermelon, peach, pina colada, vanilla custard. It had a smooth, rounded, creamy taste that was/(is?) so refreshing it had me going back to it time and again. It became my ADV. Then I read about diacetyl. I changed my brand of vanilla custard and since then, every mix has been a disappointed. Gone is the lush creaminess.... and I started getting an aftertaste that I simply did not like. I was starting to get a little depressed, questioning whether I would actually be able to stick to vaping if even my most favourite juice was not giving me any satisfaction. Today I found an old bottle of my ADV which I had mixed in early June - ah yes! that is the juice as I remember it!

I've taken the decision - I'm going back to the diacetyl laced flavours. If I'm going to die anyway, at least I will die happy.

Too many enjoyable things are unhealthy. So, we must to set priorities: what dangers we may ignore (because we enjoy them) and what dangers we should minimize in order to prolong enjoyment from our chosen dangers. Your danger of choice is flavored juice. Good for you. For me it is rather the thing that I would minimize to enjoy other things, for example food. For me a good (read: fat) steak, pork belly, and, of course, some bourbon are better choice. Really, taste buds were created for food, not some aerosol...