I guess I'm going to have to die sooner than I thought.

[stevegmu]

Easy to answer - because cigarettes stink, taste horrible and give me bronchitis.

That said I took your remark as a joke.... at least I hope it was a joke.

Dr. F and Kurt said diacetyl shouldn't be used. I don't care what anyone does, but I would actually rather risk smoking than vaping diacetyl rich e-liquid... Most cases have gone misdiagnosed. If one can get it from just smelling bags of popcorn fresh out of the microwave, it seems quite a bit more dangerous than many think. I do know why some brush it off as nothing, however...

 

[VNeil]

Dr. F and Kurt said diacetyl shouldn't be used. I don't care what anyone does, but I would actually rather risk smoking than vaping diacetyl rich e-liquid... Most cases have gone misdiagnosed. If one can get it from just smelling bags of popcorn fresh out of the microwave, it seems quite a bit more dangerous than many think. I do know why some brush it off as nothing, however...

(does anyone see the irony in that?)

 

[Papillon61]

Could you post the recipe please

Yes of course. I make my juice with brands in Europe you may not be familiar with but you could always try it with whatever you are familiar with and have faith in. When I first mixed it I called it Tropical Custard and still call it that although, apart from the Pinacolada there's very little that is tropical about it. For the record I get my Custard from a UK vendor called L&T and the rest from Molin Shop in Poland. But like I said, you could always try a small sample with what you have. Take the numbers as percentages or mls in a 10ml mix.


Tropical Custard

Big Watermelon 0.80
Custard 0.70
Nectar Peach 0.50
Malibu Pinacolada 0.40
Ethyl Maltol 0.20

 

[Papillon61]

Dr. F and Kurt said diacetyl shouldn't be used. I don't care what anyone does, but I would actually rather risk smoking than vaping diacetyl rich e-liquid... Most cases have gone misdiagnosed. If one can get it from just smelling bags of popcorn fresh out of the microwave, it seems quite a bit more dangerous than many think. I do know why some brush it off as nothing, however...

I did make it clear this only applies to me. You are of course free to do what works for you. I hope you will allow me the same freedom.

 

[Vaslovik]

Dr. F and Kurt said diacetyl shouldn't be used. I don't care what anyone does, but I would actually rather risk smoking than vaping diacetyl rich e-liquid..

You are, of course, free to choose as you wish proceeding by your own lights, but since smoking gets you 100 times the diacetyl of vaping I would not choose that course myself. It's also worth considering that even with 100 times the diacetyl of vaping no smoker has been diagnosed with popcorn lung from smoking cigarettes, although smoking does kill hundreds of thousands every year... but if you like go ahead and light up...

 

[AndriaD]

I'm talking about e-liquid. The first DIY I made was something I came up with myself, using the few flavours I had on hand - watermelon, peach, pina colada, vanilla custard. It had a smooth, rounded, creamy taste that was/(is?) so refreshing it had me going back to it time and again. It became my ADV. Then I read about diacetyl. I changed my brand of vanilla custard and since then, every mix has been a disappointed. Gone is the lush creaminess.... and I started getting an aftertaste that I simply did not like. I was starting to get a little depressed, questioning whether I would actually be able to stick to vaping if even my most favourite juice was not giving me any satisfaction. Today I found an old bottle of my ADV which I had mixed in early June - ah yes! that is the juice as I remember it!

I've taken the decision - I'm going back to the diacetyl laced flavours. If I'm going to die anyway, at least I will die happy.

I see that satchvai mentioned Vanilla Swirl... have you tried that, in place of the vanilla custard? It's diketone-free, and tastes VERY good, no nasty taste. If you also mix in a bit of DX Bavarian, it's *just like* custard.

Andria

 

[stevegmu]

You are, of course, free to choose as you wish proceeding by your own lights, but since smoking gets you 100 times the diacetyl of vaping I would not choose that course myself. It's also worth considering that even with 100 times the diacetyl of vaping no smoker has been diagnosed with popcorn lung from smoking cigarettes, although smoking does kill hundreds of thousands every year.

It's in a different form. I'm yet to see a study about diacetyl as it is related to inhalation by electronic cigarettes. Smokers don't get it from smoking, yet a guy got it from inhaling steam from freshly popped popcorn....

 

[Vaslovik]

It's in a different form. I'm yet to see a study about diacetyl as it is related to inhalation by electronic cigarettes. Smokers don't get it from smoking, yet a guy got it from inhaling steam from freshly popped popcorn....

I see... well I sincerely hope you will not be offended if I choose to ignore the issue with all it's angles and arguments and allegations. I have a roast in the oven and much to do here.

 

[stevegmu]

I see... well I sincerely hope you will not be offended if I choose to ignore the issue with all it's angles and arguments and allegations. I have a roast in the oven and much to do here.

I actually hope many vape diacetyl rich e-liquids. Preferably never smokers, though...

 

[VNeil]

You are, of course, free to choose as you wish proceeding by your own lights, but since smoking gets you 100 times the diacetyl of vaping I would not choose that course myself. It's also worth considering that even with 100 times the diacetyl of vaping no smoker has been diagnosed with popcorn lung from smoking cigarettes, although smoking does kill hundreds of thousands every year.

As long as we are going to have a debate about diketones it might be helpful to get some facts straight...

There is probably no eJuice on the market today that contains Diacetyl. What many eJuices do contain is Acetoin and AP. Popcorn workers got popcorn lung from a chemical that is not actually in our juice, or if it is, it's very rare. The Perfumer's Apprentice (a popular eJuice flavoring concentrate maker) makes a flavor called butter, it contains no Diacetyl, but is composed solely of AP and Acetoin (diluted into a PG base). If that doesn't have diacetyl then I suspect none of our flavoring components does

The linkage of AP and Acetoin to Diacetyl is, as I understand it, twofold. First, they are of a similar nature such that organic chemistry theory links it- on a theoretical level. Secondly, I think those two chemicals did some nasty things to some lab rodents. Lab rodents are not human so the link is somewhat indirect, to the extent that the chemicals exposed to popcorn workers is NOT the chemicals in our juice.

Sorry to belabor the point but every time I see a reference to diacetyl laden eJuice I shake my head because we can't seem to even get the basic facts straight. No offence intended to the member who I quoted, it has been done a number of times already and by some people who I would think would know the difference. Many people here are simply repeating what they've been told over and over (kinda reminds me of the theory of propaganda but I digress). OTOH, for other people facts are of little concern, and so on.

I truly hope I don't get popcorn lung from the bag of popcorn I popped while watching this thread develop. That could be the most dangerous part of the diketone debate!

 

[Papillon61]

satchvai mentioned Vanilla Swirl... have you tried that, in place of the vanilla custard?

Yes I have Andria. It is not the same thing. I have also tried the Molinberry Custard which is also diacetyl free (all their flavours are) but have been similarly disappointed. I was thinking my tastebuds were changing which was why I was not enjoying my juices. But then today I found that June bottle made with the original custard and that was it - that is what I had been missing. Someone mentioned drinking Diet Coke instead of regular Coke. I don't drink Coke but I think the analogy is very apt/

 

[skoony]

Dr. F and Kurt said diacetyl shouldn't be used. I don't care what anyone does, but I would actually rather risk smoking than vaping diacetyl rich e-liquid... Most cases have gone misdiagnosed. If one can get it from just smelling bags of popcorn fresh out of the microwave, it seems quite a bit more dangerous than many think. I do know why some brush it off as nothing, however...

the jury said smelling bags can cause popcorn lung.
i for one can't find out whom discovered it as an issue in the factory's other than references
to certain government agencies. they went there and discovered OB. how?
what led them to that conclusion. prior to the microwave popcorn stuff
OB was the result of lung transplant rejection. i seem to recall when this
was all transpiring some if not many believed popcorn lung was just
misdiagnosed COPD as most of those affected had significant histories
of smoking. i can't seem to find any references on the net but the heavy
smoking part i have found in government publications. the smoking part
seems to be overlooked in a lot of the subsequent literature.
regards
mike

 

[stevegmu]

the jury said smelling bags can cause popcorn lung.
i for one can't find out whom discovered it as an issue in the factory's other than references
to certain government agencies. they went there and discovered OB. how?
what led them to that conclusion. prior to the microwave popcorn stuff
OB was the result of lung transplant rejection. i seem to recall when this
was all transpiring some if not many believed popcorn lung was just
misdiagnosed COPD as most of those affected had significant histories
of smoking. i can't seem to find any references on the net but the heavy
smoking part i have found in government publications. the smoking part
seems to be overlooked in a lot of the subsequent literature.
regards
mike

If it is so harmless, why is it that AEMSA doesn't allow its members to use it?

But the reality is I hope many do continue to use it. We need test subjects...

Studies haven't been conducted on human test subjects, Bailey said, because it's unethical to take a group of humans who haven't been exposed to something that might be dangerous to them and expose them to it.


E-cigs entrepreneur says industry needs regulation | GoUpstate.com

 

[OlderNDirt]

I have it on good authority that trusting research study results and government statistics could be hazardous to your health.

 

[Captain Pegleg]

I looked into this, and confirmed my original suspicions about the issue. What I found was that:

• The quantities of diacetyl discovered in e-cigarettes have been, on average, 100 times lower than those found in traditional tobacco smoke. Another similar chemical, acetyl propionyl, has been discovered at levels 10 times lower than traditional cigarettes.
• Although smoking kills hundreds of thousands of people each year, traditional cigarettes HAVE NEVER been associated with popcorn lung.

So as I suspected it's an overblown issue that can safely be ignored if you don't work in a microwave popcorn plant. We now return you to your regularly scheduled issue.

I see your quote and that makes sense to me, but a link to a source would add quite a bit more OOMPH to this already oomph-alicious information.

 

[VNeil]

If it is so harmless, why is it that AEMSA doesn't allow its members to use it?

Politics?

 

[AndriaD]

Yes I have Andria. It is not the same thing. I have also tried the Molinberry Custard which is also diacetyl free (all their flavours are) but have been similarly disappointed. I was thinking my tastebuds were changing which was why I was not enjoying my juices. But then today I found that June bottle made with the original custard and that was it - that is what I had been missing. Someone mentioned drinking Diet Coke instead of regular Coke. I don't drink Coke but I think the analogy is very apt/

Yes, I can understand that if you've come to love a certain taste, than anything less or different, just won't taste the same. I suppose I'm fortunate that I discovered this "problem" just at the time I was starting to get interested in DIY, so I never tried any of the diketone flavors -- so I have no idea what I may be missing -- good thing for me, because I'm VERY picky about flavors; I had to find a tobacco vape that was very similar to my cigarettes, before I could really go full-force for vaping.

Frankly I'm really not sure that the diketones are THAT big a problem, in vaping, but since I'm doing fine with my diketone-free flavors, I'll stick with them.

Andria

 

[YoursTruli]

You can vape what ever you want and if diketones in your eliquid make you happy then go for it there are a lot of people who feel the same way you do but even you have to admit your title and post here is a stick in the pot and in the eye of those who do not feel the same way.

 

[DergBerg]

If it is so harmless, why is it that AEMSA doesn't allow its members to use it?

But the reality is I hope many do continue to use it. We need test subjects...

Studies haven't been conducted on human test subjects, Bailey said, because it's unethical to take a group of humans who haven't been exposed to something that might be dangerous to them and expose them to it.


E-cigs entrepreneur says industry needs regulation | GoUpstate.com

I volunteer!

Dr. F's statement is totally on point IMO. With so much controversy surrounding this chemical, why wouldn't the vape industry avoid it? Time will be better spent learning more about other flavorings than just beating one into the ground.

Now play nice sir, whether you admit it or not, you're a lab rat too! Cheers!

 

[stevegmu]

I volunteer!

Dr. F's statement is totally on point IMO. With so much controversy surrounding this chemical, why wouldn't the vape industry avoid it? Time will be better spent learning more about other flavorings than just beating one into the ground.

Now play nice sir, whether you admit it or not, you're a lab rat too! Cheers!

Some companies can't make good juice without it, and there will be some who say they can't get a good vape without it...

Yes, but I'm the lab rat who spits out the pill, rather than volunteer for it...