I live in NYC.. can I still order online?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Myrany

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Apr 14, 2013
8,477
44,353
Louisiana
What's your prediction for cigs?
What do you think is happening such that "those who will never have a chance"....
What do you think will happen to them? What is it that you're worried about? What chance are they missing?

(That was to you. ;) But also to all.)
Those who will never have a chance = those still smoking combustibles.

I think your picture on the tightly controlled, ineffective BT supplied POD systems or heat not burn systems are all that are going to be left. For those still smoking I just do not see that working well. Probably not much better than the rubbish BP puts out.Those people will not have a shot at something that really worked.

Sorry it apparently bothers you that I really feel for those people. I have spent years trying to help people make the switch and get off cigs.
 

AttyPops

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Jul 8, 2010
8,708
134,344
Hc Svnt Dracones - USA EST
Those who will never have a chance = those still smoking combustibles.

I think your picture on the tightly controlled, ineffective BT supplied POD systems or heat not burn systems are all that are going to be left. For those still smoking I just do not see that working well. Probably not much better than the rubbish BP puts out.Those people will not have a shot at something that really worked.

Sorry it apparently bothers you that I really feel for those people. I have spent years trying to help people make the switch and get off cigs.
lol. Smile my friend.
It doesn't "bother me" and I'm concerned too. :)

I'm trying to discuss this abstractly, theoretically, and rather emotionlessly.

I ask because I'm not sure we had/have the same vision of the future. So we (as in all here) need to debate what we think that will look like given our current information. It's almost as bad as predicting the weather 3 weeks out. ;)

I don't think they will have much choice LONG TERM. But how long of a term?

They will get off cigs, regardless of the means, eventually. Or die early before all this long-term stuff unfolds. I don't know how fast "the powers that be" will make this unfold. Be it God, money, politics, or fate. Random interactions. I don't care what you call it.

Look, here's what I'm saying:

Cigs will go bye-bye. Some will grow their own. Others will participate in a black market. But most will switch to something. We've had a decade for us early adopters. And like many of us have said, there's always unflavored.

But BT doesn't have to stop making cigs. Hell, they could tie up any changes in courts for decades. They didn't have to participate in FSC stuff. They didn't have to self-reform and predict a "smoke free future" but they did. Call is social pressure. Call it ethics, call it repentance. Whatever it is, it is. They play the long term game. And it's a trade off.

They'll trade off the combustible market, but they need control...somehow...of the nic market. And frankly, I can come back to you and say "what about the tobacco farmers? What about the tobacco plant workers? What about the investors? Jobs. Jobs. Jobs." but in the end, we did too good of a job. And now youth uptake of nicotine addiction...in a different form...is increasing.

So if it's less effective for smokers, it's also a bit less desirable for non-nic-addicts. And Like I said, the smokers soon won't have any choice, they just don't know it yet.

Nic free cigs next? That's been on the table too.

The future is smoke free. But the way we did it...we're the sacrificial lambs as well as the developers/prototypes/experimenters/lab-rats. In a way we've won...we've ushered in a new era...but we won't keep the market. The money and industry still has its influence. And we're still being spoon-fed excuses here, but the master critical path is still there and ongoing. Step by step.
 

Eskie

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
May 6, 2016
16,087
77,744
NY
I've contacted a couple different places I buy supplies from and they all have said as of right now it's business as usual including nic suppliers. PG, VG and flavoring are used in other industries than vaping. I imagine the only weakness in the future will be nic. I really don't care. I'll be vaping 0nic in the near future anyway.

I am thinking once this is a national heavily regulated market so there's some semblance of consistency across state lines, a company that specializes in flavors like for example Bull City Flavors might well drop the mixing stuff and concentrate on flavors only on their site so there's no chance of being accused of attempting to evade any type of flavor ban. Nicotine would come from nicotine suppliers, who don't sell flavors, and all the ancillary stuff like PG/VG and bottles and mixing stuff from Amazon or whoever you like. It's what I'd do to CYA.
 

Rossum

Eleutheromaniac
Supporting Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Dec 14, 2013
16,081
105,232
SE PA
Keep your hardware, keep your wire, keep your flavorings stock up on nic base. OR...accept the moderate future, owned by BT
That's good advice.

You're basically stepping in front of a virtual-bullet to save the future-kids. It's amazing how people literally would step in front of a bullet to save their kids, but when it comes to highly successful nic products like Juul or really any vaping...we rationalize. "Oh, my rights! My vape!"
[...]And in a sense, we have to "save the children" not only from themselves, but maybe...just maybe...from us.
So you want government to do the parents' job? I don't. Nor am I willing to take a bullet for the children of parents who don't do their job. I did my job as a parent. Neither of my kids (both now in the twenties) smoke or vape. But if either or both of them did vape, it wouldn't bother me too much.

And that's something else wrong with your analogy/logic. What are we actually saving these kids from? A lifetime of nicotine enjoyment/dependence, with, as far as anyone knows right now, no serious health consequences at all? No, I'm definitely not willing to "take a bullet" for that.
 

Don29palms

Moved On
ECF Veteran
Sep 12, 2014
4,162
14,595
joshua tree, ca
That's good advice.


So you want government to do the parents' job? I don't. Nor am I willing to take a bullet for the children of parents who don't do their job. I did my job as a parent. Neither of my kids (both now in the twenties) smoke or vape. But if either or both of them did vape, it wouldn't bother me too much.

And that's something else wrong with your analogy/logic. What are we actually saving these kids from? A lifetime of nicotine enjoyment/dependence, with, as far as anyone knows right now, no serious health consequences at all? No, I'm definitely not willing to "take a bullet" for that.
That's the problem with alot of these progressive liberals. They can't run their own lives but they are really good at telling others how to run theirs. I'm with you Rossum. Leave me and mine alone and let others worry about their own.
 

AttyPops

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Jul 8, 2010
8,708
134,344
Hc Svnt Dracones - USA EST
That's the problem with alot of these progressive liberals. They can't run their own lives but they are really good at telling others how to run theirs. I'm with you Rossum. Leave me and mine alone and let others worry about their own.
Have fun.

Big money, big corp already has it locked down. And they're mostly not liberals. Nor progressive. The progressives would probably keep the open market. I would.

But I'm not sugar-coating this for you either. ;)
 

AttyPops

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Jul 8, 2010
8,708
134,344
Hc Svnt Dracones - USA EST
And that's something else wrong with your analogy/logic. What are we actually saving these kids from? A lifetime of nicotine enjoyment/dependence, with, as far as anyone knows right now, no serious health consequences at all? No, I'm definitely not willing to "take a bullet" for that.
It's not right nor wrong. It's just what's being said.

Given a choice **we** would not hook the kiddies. BT, you can debate, but they're saying at least "smoke free future".
 

Rossum

Eleutheromaniac
Supporting Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Dec 14, 2013
16,081
105,232
SE PA
Have fun.

Big money, big corp already has it locked down. And they're mostly not liberals. Nor progressive. The progressives would probably keep the open market. I would.

But I'm not sugar-coating this for you either. ;)
"Big money, big corp" could not accomplish this "lock down" without the Tobacco Control Act and Big Government's help in general.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: zoiDman
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread