I do about 50% of the time as it is. I think I have actually bought premade eliquid 3 times in the last 5 years. Food flavorings will ALWAYS be available. As will PG and VG. The choke point is nic. Lay in a supply of that and start haunting the DIY forums here on ECF. It is not nearly as difficult as it looks at first to DIY. Yes you will create some nasty stuff until you get the hang of it. Be persistent and become independent.
I live in NYC.. can I still order online?
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I was scared at first to DIY as I suck at math. But I do it by weight so no math required. Easy peasy.
My mixes are all really simple single flavor. So I just know put in this much flavor, this much nic, this much pg, this much vg for this size bottle. It helps that I make it 500mL at a time. Formula is always the same. Simple stuff. I make juice about 4 times a year and call it done.
Only way to stop that is to ban nic concentrate. At some point if whoever decides vaping needs to be staked completely outside of a little super Fort Knox quality tamper resistant pod, then preventing retail sales of nic concentrate is the most natural choice to ending DIY. But that's easy to avoid by simply buying some nic now and sticking it in our freezer. Depending how much juice you vape a liter could last you 3-7 years. So with a few liters put away the question no longer applies to your individual situation.
unless they decide to ban food flavorings. Then we're stuck with cardboard flavored juice.
In the meantime, fortified seltzers are making a comeback. Everyone remember Zima? That stuff can't appeal to teens, right?
Prediction: They're going to ban online sales of the nic, and mandate close-pod tamper-proof systems.
Of course, it will be due to the need for quality control, or stopping "illicit" substances, or whatever. But the end result is that you will only get it through "channels". How open those channels are? IDK.
It's already started:
WSJ News Exclusive | Sales of Illicit Vaping Products Find Home Online
Keep your hardware, keep your wire, keep your flavorings stock up on nic base. OR...accept the moderate future, owned by BT, but the plus side...the trade off...is reduced youth smoking (the literal smoking/combustibles) and maybe less nic addiction (I'm dubious, but that might be a goal out of BT too, at least for now).
E-cigs as we know them now, including Juul, are simply too successful. They have to make them "worse" to reduce rates.
You're basically stepping in front of a virtual-bullet to save the future-kids. It's amazing how people literally would step in front of a bullet to save their kids, but when it comes to highly successful nic products like Juul or really any vaping...we rationalize. "Oh, my rights! My vape!"
What if you asked me "Would you give up some of your vape-liberty in exchange for less deaths in the future generations?" Should I? Would I?
These are the questions I ask myself.
We as an industry were actually too good, but maybe too short sighted. It's not the flavors, it's the lack of nasty flavored deterrents. It's not the ease of use, it's the lack of the stink/danger/need-for-cleaning mess. It's not the open system, it's about the inability to hate BT when you have open systems...no common villain. There's not enough deterrent with modern vaping.
IDK. I'm rambling. Sorry. Waxing long-term philosophical.
But I think this trade-off deal was made a decade ago, or several decades ago. We in the grass-roots vaping community just didn't "get it". We actually made it too easy, too open, to acceptable.
And in a sense, we have to "save the children" not only from themselves, but maybe...just maybe...from us.
It's all give and take. That's life. IDK where any individual falls in the full spectrum of full issues here. Is all this God's will and inevitable, or a deal with the devil? And how much matters if the end goal is the same?
The real questions to me are: "Is there a 'third' option?" and "What is the best future, 80 years from now?"
But vaping as we know it will change. It's done, it's over, and been done for a long time. A lot of what you're hearing only makes sense in the larger context, because the individual points are B.S. It's all about the end-game, and it's a smokeless future. And about money and who controls the market. And deals.
And for all those who think convenience stores selling alcohol containing anything is a convenient good idea, there;s always these statistics to ponder. Yet no one seems to be calling it an emergency in need of elimination of teen tempting alcohol beverages like flavored seltzers or vodkas or...... you get it.
Emergency Department Visits Involving Underage Alcohol Misuse: 2010 to 2013
Some fun figures to compare against those thrown around for vaping.
"According to the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration's 2015 National Survey on Drug Use and Health (NSDUH), 20.3 percent of people aged 12 to 20 consumed alcohol in the past month, 13.4 percent were binge drinkers (drank five or more drinks on the same occasion on at least 1 day in the 30 days before taking the survey), and 3.3 percent were heavy drinkers (drank five or more drinks on the same occasion on at least 5 days in the 30 days before taking the survey)"
Almost looks like vaping statistics, right?
Oh, and about 650,000 ER visits for underage drinkers 2010-2013. Even with the THC involved cases, which shouldn't count, you could make a case for maybe 1,000 cases (including injuries) over that last 10 years. One requires an emergency public health ban, and the other is, "well, we try to keep the kids from drinking, but you know how they are at that age".
Emergency Department Visits Involving Underage Alcohol Misuse: 2010 to 2013
Some fun figures to compare against those thrown around for vaping.
"According to the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration's 2015 National Survey on Drug Use and Health (NSDUH), 20.3 percent of people aged 12 to 20 consumed alcohol in the past month, 13.4 percent were binge drinkers (drank five or more drinks on the same occasion on at least 1 day in the 30 days before taking the survey), and 3.3 percent were heavy drinkers (drank five or more drinks on the same occasion on at least 5 days in the 30 days before taking the survey)"
Almost looks like vaping statistics, right?
Oh, and about 650,000 ER visits for underage drinkers 2010-2013. Even with the THC involved cases, which shouldn't count, you could make a case for maybe 1,000 cases (including injuries) over that last 10 years. One requires an emergency public health ban, and the other is, "well, we try to keep the kids from drinking, but you know how they are at that age".
I cant decide if this was pointed to me or not. I would think after all these years you would know where I stand on it. I have been ready to do what I have to do to keep off cigs and I have been ready for years.Prediction: They're going to ban online sales of the nic, and mandate close-pod tamper-proof systems.
Of course, it will be due to the need for quality control, or stopping "illicit" substances, or whatever. But the end result is that you will only get it through "channels". How open those channels are? IDK.
It's already started:
WSJ News Exclusive | Sales of Illicit Vaping Products Find Home Online
Keep your hardware, keep your wire, keep your flavorings stock up on nic base. OR...accept the moderate future, owned by BT, but the plus side...the trade off...is reduced youth smoking (the literal smoking/combustibles) and maybe less nic addiction (I'm dubious, but that might be a goal out of BT too, at least for now).
E-cigs as we know them now, including Juul, are simply too successful. They have to make them "worse" to reduce rates.
You're basically stepping in front of a virtual-bullet to save the future-kids. It's amazing how people literally would step in front of a bullet to save their kids, but when it comes to highly successful nic products like Juul or really any vaping...we rationalize. "Oh, my rights! My vape!"
What if you asked me "Would you give up some of your vape-liberty in exchange for less deaths in the future generations?" Should I? Would I?
These are the questions I ask myself.
We as an industry were actually too good, but maybe too short sighted. It's not the flavors, it's the lack of nasty flavored deterrents. It's not the ease of use, it's the lack of the stink/danger/need-for-cleaning mess. It's not the open system, it's about the inability to hate BT when you have open systems...no common villain. There's not enough deterrent with modern vaping.
IDK. I'm rambling. Sorry. Waxing long-term philosophical.
But I think this trade-off deal was made a decade ago, or several decades ago. We in the grass-roots vaping community just didn't "get it". We actually made it too easy, too open, to acceptable.
And in a sense, we have to "save the children" not only from themselves, but maybe...just maybe...from us.
It's all give and take. That's life. IDK where any individual falls in the full spectrum of full issues here. Is all this God's will and inevitable, or a deal with the devil? And how much matters if the end goal is the same?
The real questions to me are: "Is there a 'third' option?" and "What is the best future, 80 years from now?"
But vaping as we know it will change. It's done, it's over, and been done for a long time. A lot of what you're hearing only makes sense in the larger context, because the individual points are B.S. It's all about the end-game, and it's a smokeless future. And about money and who controls the market. And deals.
If all those "You"s were general I actually agree with you. We never had a chance it was decided before we even knew there was a problem.
I am sorry for those who will never have a chance thanks to all of this but all I can do now is try and suggest methods to keep going for those caught unaware at this point.
They won't. I am sure more than on congress critter heads straight for starbucks and a pumpkin spice latte at first opportunity
Can’t, but they can prevent vape stores (B&M and online) from selling them. Effectively putting the vast majority of these companies out of business. Unless everyone embraces tobacco flavours of course. Good luck with that.
They were general.
I was big-picturing (like international, sociological...from 100,000 feet up and attempting long-term thinking).
I just keyed off the internet-ban concept.
The same way they banned plastic straws.
No, flavorings won't be banned, they just won't be marketed for vaping. I expect any flavor companies we currently buy from to stop offering nic concentrate, PG/VG, or bottling in any form that may be there for convenience (and profit) but may be construed as getting flavors into the hands of kiddies for vaping.
What's your prediction for cigs?
What do you think is happening such that "those who will never have a chance"....
What do you think will happen to them? What is it that you're worried about? What chance are they missing?
(That was to you.
But also to all.)As for bottling...
WHen I first started vaping I was the queen of saving (washing removing labels etc) all my eliquid bottles so for me bottles became a non issue very quickly. Hey I was very broke at the time...shrugs.
I would suggest folks do it now if they will need bottles. Either that or stock up now. I bought a huge bag of those 60 mL chubby gorilla style bottles years ago. I am set. But I do think the more traditional drooper style bottle will be easy to get as aroma therapy types use them.
PG/VG look to soapmaking sites or even candymaking sites.
Flavorings once again look to baking, cooking, candymaking sites.
The bottleneck is the nic and I fully expect it will be off the market. Really my one big shock in the deeming is that they didn't just ban that and call it done. It would have without muss or fuss killed vaping.
I've contacted a couple different places I buy supplies from and they all have said as of right now it's business as usual including nic suppliers. PG, VG and flavoring are used in other industries than vaping. I imagine the only weakness in the future will be nic. I really don't care. I'll be vaping 0nic in the near future anyway.
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