I need some research help for an article on e-cigarettes and children

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Eskie

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I believe one cigarette contain from 8 - 20 milligrams nicotine, with the average being 12. That's nowhere near enough to kill anybody.

I had a dog once who ate an entire pack of cigarettes off the coffee table. After the dog drank my morning coffee mug (I kid you not). Pup was fine.

Mind you, I'm not condoning a 3 year old starting on coffee and eating packs of cigarettes. Then again, I'm always amazed when I see a mom pick up the pacifier that fell on the sidewalk and stick it back in the toddler's mouth, but that's just me.
 
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Eskie

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I think you and I, shoot, most of us mostly agree. But it's hard to tell in text at times whether we're justifying regulation or encouraging it. I for the record have no problem with a lawfully empowered FDA overseeing external standards............

I guess what it comes down to is what would constitute reasonable and rational regulations. If the FDA was overseeing external standards that were geared to protecting the public without crushing the vaping industry this discussion wouldn't be going on. If this was just a matter of childproof caps, enforcing an age limit, and providing an explanation of what a particular product is and how it is manufactured/assembled/mixed, this whole thing wouldn't be going on.

It's the fact that the regulations in their current form allow the FDA to essentially ban all vape products marketed after 2007 without any guidance just how they can remain on the market even with all the paperwork described in the regulations. You could spend millions of dollars and countless hours preparing a PMTA with no idea if you have cleared their hurdle until you get back a "No, not quite good enough for public health" letter. The lack of transparency in what will be approved in the future is a big part of the problem, and even by their own admission, expect far fewer products to eventually remain available compared to today.
 
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MacTechVpr

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My specific issue with this whole situation is how speciously the FDA has sought to "regulate" this organic; further, how duplicitous Congress has been in its delegation. This does not bode well for any industry dealing in natural organic substances. Definitely not for us as consumers. Don't believe the probable ramifications are generally appreciated. We need to extract vaping from existing tobacco legislation.

Good luck. :)
 

MacTechVpr

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Separating vaping from tobacco legislation certainly makes the most sense, but when has Congress ever legislated based on objective data and without influence by lobbyists and donors?

Exactly. Where are the responsible legislators/regulators. If we can't find or elect a principled veto proof majority perhaps the government shouldn't have such power. Yes, it's gotten to that, sadly.

Good luck. :)
 

VNeil

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The problem is simple. In 2009 Congress voted to allow .... Or perhaps require.... FDA to ban any future recreational uses of nicotine.

The FDA or perhaps Congress considers smoking cessation devices to be drugs. We know how that went....

It is the defacto ban on nic that is the problem . We know it's not harmful but...
 
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MacTechVpr

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The thing that gets me is I changed to vaping to stop using tobacco. Now I find out I'm still using tobacco.
Maybe I should just start to eat ice cream a dozen times a day to stop using tobacco, but I'm afraid then they'll label that tobacco too.

As long as you don't make that into an ice cream soda exceeding 12 Oz or they may just have to confiscate your kids to avert child abuse.

Yeah, feel ya. Can't persuade the dogmatic. Science and consequence are secondary. Feeling really frustrated with the idiots this week. So I've been thinking about this a lot in recent days. I'm an old hand in this fight going back to the 80's. But the more they take…well, the more they take. So my perspective with a bit of wisdom gained in years is to go for the jugular. If you can't trust the kid with the car keys, you take 'em back. Until then massive and concerted civil disobedience.

Good luck. :|
 

supertrunker

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The thing that gets me is I changed to vaping to stop using tobacco. Now I find out I'm still using tobacco.
Maybe I should just start to eat ice cream a dozen times a day to stop using tobacco, but I'm afraid then they'll label that tobacco too.

It gets better. Life insurance companies regard vaping and NRT as tobacco use. In the case of NRT's that have such a dismal record of helping smokers quit and stay that way, i can see their point.
I've not smoked since 2012, but until i can prove i haven't used nicotine in a year, i'll only be offered smoker's rates of life insurance premium.

As it happens, i did stop using nic last August, but only because it was too much hassle to keep adding it in ever diminishing quantities to my eliquid. But it's a bit of old bollocks, when a guy that hasn't smoked in close to 4 years, is offered the same screwing as someone that stopped smoking yesterday!

T
 

MacTechVpr

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"For those of you who haven’t taken an economics class, rent-seeking is when companies try to increase market share without creating any new economic value. Lobbying and political contributions as well as seeking to impose regulations on competitors are the most common manifestations of rent-seeking in modern economies. The massive amounts of money spent on donations and lobbying, as well as the regulations that have been drafted under the leadership of their former paid employees are a perfect textbook example of rent-seeking in the most evil way possible: One that creates wealth for themselves not just by taking money away from their rivals, but also by taking the lives of innocent people who will find it much harder to quit smoking without the aid of e-cigarettes."

Otherwise known as picking winners and losers (by government). Great article perhaps in pointing out that we really don't have true free trade or capitalism when government is synonymous with big business. Then facts yield to advertising.

Good luck. :)
 

Nermal

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It should also be noted that the reason most vapers vape flavored juices is simply that unflavored are virtually unattainable in the form of commercial ready to vape juice. I never had access to unflavored eLiquid until I started DIY. So any media hype or gov't sponsored propaganda about the preponderance of "flavors" is quite specious.

If anyone is in the position you describe, I just received such an order from Mt. Baker. I think I saw the same from My Freedom Smokes. I would bet there are others.
 

VNeil

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I 'think' that more companies are offering unflavored. My vender has so I did try it. I actually like unflavored !
Historically I think you would have been hard pressed to find unflavored eLiquid in the B&Ms where most people start. Of course it is common online but really there it is related to DIY bases even if sold at ready to vape strengths.

With the threats of flavorpocalypse it does not surprise me that vendors are coming out with unflavored now but that is a very recent trend.
 
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