Dark Truth behind e cigarettes ..A rant

[geeve]

im a little late to the thread... but something as extreme as body modification (yeah i do it) is WAY more socially acceptable in all forms then it ever has been. Im not saying you should go fie your teeth down to look like a tiger lol but if you want your lip pierced or a nose ring or even a tattoo that isnt covered by clothing most people dont even give it a second thought. So why wouldnt vaping follow the same trend? Yes right now its somewhat of a groundbreaking phenomenon but it doesnt mean that 10-15 years from now it wouldnt be a standard thing to see in public.

*This wall of text is my opinion, so take it for what's it's worth. We all know opinions are like ... H$%es, everyone has one and they stink*


I agree here. I have a sleeve on my left arm, however 15-20 years ago it wasn't nearly as accepted as it is today. I had jobs where I was asked to wear business casual (polo and khakis) but they required me to wear long sleeve polos or button downs. I didn't throw a fuss, didn't go at them about ignorance, or how my tattoos didn't gauge my work or smarts. Nope I put the long sleeves on and did my job. Got promotions and played the game. It's not like they didn't know I had tattoos. Now where I work, I wear a tshirt and jeans and have a lab coat. I don't wear the lab coat very often which means my tats are visible most of the day and no one cares. The difference is that it is much more excepted and I don't force it down anyone's throat.

This relates to Vape as well, the reason things have changed in body mods and how they are seen is because most people I know would remove lip rings, Le brea studs, wear long sleeve shirts etc. and have respect for the others around them. Do I think it's fair to be judged like that or treated different? No I don't, but we are not the only people walking the earth. If vapers would resect the social standard of the time, the change in attitude of the general public becomes more favorable. My Dad always told me "If you want to be respected, you sure as h@#L better give it"

I am not saying to just lay down and let the world run you over, but you catch more flies with honey. If you aren't sure if you can Vape somewhere....ask. If they say no, go outside or leave. In most situations I treat it like smoking. I wouldn't think of vaping in a movie or while others are eating. I wouldn't vape in a non smoking section of a casino or any other establishment either, not because I am afraid to stir the pot, but because I have respect for others. Now if I give respect in a situation like this and am not given it back, then I tend to throw my .... in the air. To be honest, in the month I have been vaping, I have had more questions and nice conversations with people curious about it because I would be respectful and follow the rules or get clarification of them first. I didn't talk down to them, or treat them like I am superior, all that did was show them that normal people have found a way to be healthier. I wouldn't seek the fight out, but I would have it if necessary.

*This wall of text is my opinion, so take it for what's it's worth. We all know opinions are like ... H$%es, everyone has one and they stink*


Geeve

 

[IMEDICx90]

I'm right there with you. I definitely ask if I know it's a non smoking facility. Barring that I'm outside I ask. And a vape cloud in a movie is just as distracting as a person texting on their phone. So I try not to be a distraction. That's pretty plain and simple for me. It doesn't mean I stealth vape or hide it but I do try to be courteous just when I was a smoker.

 

[kristin]

I guess I don't understand how people hiding their body modifications made them more acceptable? I would think that people seeing them more often would make them less alarming and then less "offensive." The same as with seeing bikinis on the beach or men with shaved heads. It's the desensitization that makes them "the norm" now, not people being polite and keeping them hidden. Shaved heads didn't become sexy because Michael Jordan wore a toupee. Bikinis didn't become acceptable at the beach because women wore muumuus over them until it was OK to take them off. That logic just seems a little backwards to me. Maybe it's just the wrong analogy, because I do get the idea of "playing the game" under certain circumstances.

The way I see it, the more commonplace openly vaping is; the more people experience vapor firsthand (and actually smell it and see how it ISN'T like smoke and isn't "offensive"); the less they will be shocked to see it and the less they will think of it as "rude" for people to be doing it.

Of course, the "playing the game" part of the tattoo analogy does come into play when considering when it is an inappropriate time to breathe out plumes of vapor. At least be sure you have the blessing of whatever business you are inside before creating huge billows and it would probably be prudent to avoid vaping around other people's kids, so they don't freak out. (It's just not common enough yet.) Let them get used to seeing it and understand it before you go too crazy. But don't self-restrict yourself to just smoking areas unnecessarily - let the business make that call. Even if it's illegal to smoke in a bar & grill in your state/city, if the owner gives you permission to openly vape there, go for it. Let people see you and talk to them about it!

 

[BlueMoods]

There is a fine line between not acting ashamed, or not acting like a smoker and being rude. I think it best to err on the side of being overly considerate of others, and respectful to business owners or managers.

I have had several initially say no, but allow vaping once I made time to meet with them privately and, explain and demonstrate what vaping is, that there is no offensive odor and, how quickly vapor dissipates.

For so many that don't know a thing about vaping, it's simple - it looks like smoke, therefore it IS smoke.

 

[ed101z]

I'd like to add something.
First, There IS a difference between Vaping and Smoking Cigarettes. Most hospitals, colleges, and business's have banned smoking for ONE major reason. That simple reason is -- throwing Cigarette Butts on the ground. Eventually, you have big clots of cotton everywhere reeking havoc on the area. Even as a smoker, I have to agree that it just trashes the landscaping and appearance of the establishment.

I don't believe Vaping will EVER be considered the same as smoking real Cigarettes. However, I don’t feel you should just pull out a Provari with an AGA-T2 on it… and make big clouds in a court room, library, school classes, college classes, hospital, job…or even when you’re having sex. There IS a time and place for Vaping. I like Vaping, but I sure’s hell don’t do it every second of my life. There are times I want a break from even that.

But don’t forget the differences between Vaping and smoking real Cigarettes. For now, as we know ...Vaping is much better, and safer than smoking.
After all, you…

• Won’t be putting 4,000 chemicals in your body.
• Won't be throwing butts down on the ground.
• Will save a ton of money.
• Won't smell like an ash tray.
• Won’t have stained teeth.
• Won’t breath second hand smoke.
• Car won't stink.
• Won't have stained walls due to smoking inside.
• Your beloved one won't be harping on you to go outside to smoke.
• Your beloved one won't pull away from you because your breath stinks.
• People in general won't be moving away from you because you stink from cigarette smoke.
• Won’t have people preaching to stop smoking because IT KILLS!!
• Won’t always need a drink in your hand when you smoke – to mask the sh!!ty taste of real Cigarettes.

Now, let’s draw up the bad things about Vaping.
• Have to search for the right juice to vape.
• Clean coils and rebuild RBA’s
• Charge batteries all the time.
• Find a way to carry it with you when you leave and worry about breaking, or losing it.
• Wonder if your Tank will leak.
• Have to explain that new gadget in your hand, and wonder what you’ll say when she says… "Is that a Vamo in your pocket, or are you just glad to see me?”

 

[JR 137]

I'd like to add something.
First, There IS a difference between Vaping and Smoking Cigarettes. Most hospitals, colleges, and business's have banned smoking for ONE major reason. That simple reason is -- throwing Cigarette Butts on the ground. Eventually, you have big clots of cotton everywhere reeking havoc on the area. Even as a smoker, I have to agree that it just trashes the landscaping and appearance of the establishment...

Now, let’s draw up the bad things about Vaping.
• Have to search for the right juice to vape.
• Clean coils and rebuild RBA’s
• Charge batteries all the time.
• Find a way to carry it with you when you leave and worry about breaking, or losing it.
• Wonder if your Tank will leak.
• Have to explain that new gadget in your hand, and wonder what you’ll say when she says… "Is that a Vamo in your pocket, or are you just glad to see me?”

Couple of thoughts...

In addition to cleanup costs, places ban smoking (snd sunsequently vaping) because they're uptight idiots who've either forgotten or don't subscribe to the concept of live and let live. Going outside to smoke in an area where it won't effect non-smokers such as away from windows, doors and main walkways is a no-brainer; banning it completely from a premises other than kids' parks and the like is just dumb.

I overwhelming complaint about vaping is QC of products. Why should I have to buy 10 delivery devices so I can hopefully get 5 or 6 good ones that don't leak, drip, burn out too soon, etc.? I'd gladly spend a few dollars more and be assured that I'm getting a product where a defect is truly an exception to the rule and doesn't need to be factored into the equation.

As far as "Is that a Vamo in your pocket, or are you glad to see me?" Why can't it be both? Lol

 

[SharonH]

I'm a Canadian who spends half of my time in the US. Honestly, I'd like to see my fellow vapers in the US focus more on common courtesy while the future of vaping is so tenuous. What's more important right now? Is it not to ensure the availability of products including nicotine liquids over the long haul or where you can vape? Ideally both... both I think tackling the most important issues should come first.

From what I'm seeing of those who don't understand vaping, "forcing" vaping will do more harm than good over the long-term.

Personally, when smoking was allowed on planes, I preferred sitting in non-smoking. When smoking was allowed in restaurants, I preferred sitting in non-smoking. But I'm also one of those people who get annoyed when people use phones in restaurants or text in movies.

 

[Kirkus]

The social habit is part of my addiction. I don't vape in polite company. That's why I hate polite company. The smoking area is good company.

 

[ed101z]

The social habit is part of my addiction. I don't vape in polite company. That's why I hate polite company. The smoking area is good company. Anywhere a joint is being passed around is better company and I don't even smoke that tasty green stuff anymore.

Those were the days indeed!!! In high school (1980's), us 15 yr olds were allowed to smoke between ever class. That WAS the place to go to 'socialize', and it was the best way to meet a hot chick. Can't even count the times some hottie would say ..."Can a bum a smoke?"

 

[jarreddizzle]

Greetings ECF'rs,

Human History has PROVEN that "difference" is cause for War.
We need to stop our hypocrisy. Public places should (I believe) stay "Public Places." (meaning...)
We cannot go into a Public Place (i.e. : libraries, restaurants, stores...etc) and think it is our own space, and ours alone.
We cannot walk around thinking we can make up our own rules of living.
Education is our best weapon against Fear.
The Prohibition... or legalizing of anything is simply another 'Resource Depriving' machine. (just my opinion)
Everyone has to care...

Considerate
Accepting
Respectful
Educate
...to create a better world.

I feel the same way.
As long as the vaping community at large is respectful to people and others and vaping in private places or smoking sections then what is to worry. As long as people stay reasonable and considerate I do not think we have much to worry about.

 

[kristin]

I completely agree that vapers shouldn't be disruptive. Billows of vapor where people don't expect it is a rude distraction akin to talking loud or on the phone during a movie. Causing a distraction where other people are trying to quietly enjoy themselves is rude, no matter what you are doing. For instance, taking unruly children to an adult-oriented movie or restaurant. Sure, my kids have every "right" to be there, but I still wouldn't take them, because it's rude to disrupt other people's enjoyment. So I agree there is a time and place for openly vaping.

HOWEVER, anyone who thinks being polite with our vaping is actually going to have any affect on placating the ANTZ and help us avoid attempted bans is 100% wrong. It's not to say we shouldn't be polite, just that it isn't going to have any effect on them trying to ban it. Those are two completely separate ssues. Most of these bans have been attempted by people who have never even seen an e-cigarette used in public. Ironically, many who finally do have one demonstrated to them change their mind about them (as long as they aren't true ANTZ) And nearly all of the support we see coming ftom non-smokers also comes from folks who have experienced vaping up close. There are far more non-smokers inside than outside with the smokers and if we can convince THEM not to support vaping bans it makes the ANTZ job a lot harder. But if the non-smokers only see us vaping far away with the smokers, they'll have no first-hand experience that supports our claim that the ANTZ are lying.

Not having to go outside and businesses being allowed to cater to vapers are a HUGE win toward social acceptance and normalization of vaping. If people continue to associate it as negative behavior, we will continue to suffer the same plight as the smokers - ostracized, over-taxed, over-charged for insurance, denied employment and generally sneered at and looked down upon. There are far greater reasons to fight for indoor use than convenience. Its about gaining the same social acceptance for vaping that caffeine users currently enjoy and ending unfair discrimination of nicotine consumers.

 

[mare ze dotes]

Those were the days indeed!!! In high school (1980's), us 15 yr olds were allowed to smoke between ever class. That WAS the place to go to 'socialize', and it was the best way to meet a hot chick. Can't even count the times some hottie would say ..."Can a bum a smoke?"

I havent thought of that for years. Yes, In the high school parking lot we would all congregate and smoke inbetween classes. I dont think there was a smoking age then? Wow.

 

[machinestatic]

First I'll preface by saying... am I a cynical person in general? Yes.

The way I see it, all of the discussion about being polite to small bar owners, a cashier at a Walmart, or that random old angry guy on your street that tells you to put out your "cigarette" is different than the discussion about regulations and bans. I'm sad to admit I feel that way, but it's true. That discussion is more about morals, being polite to fellow citizens, and just being an all-around good person and not a jerk. And I support that.

However, the discussion of state and national bans is what REALLY scares me. We can try as hard as we can to get our next door neighbor, or the waiter at Applebee's to be "cool" with our hobby and understand it's healthier than cigarettes... but the REAL rules are made by multi-billion dollar corporate leaders in suits in some conference room who don't care about that stuff. I am scared that they don't care what our neighbors or local businesses think. And I'm scared that it's a decision made in a false democratic manner.

Look at what happened to that entire county where Minneapolis is. Yet I'm sure a lot of the vapers who live there talked defiantly in forums and on Facebook, Emailed their mayor, petitioned, made flyers... Sometimes it just feels like a helpless shame to me, like we're in the Twilight Zone.

Honestly, in the last few months every time I go to place a new order online for vaping gear or juice I wonder how many more orders I'll be able to place before the law sends me back into the arms of Nicorette. In the back of my mind I even fear discovering a new favorite device or juice, because it suddenly all feels "limited edition" and temporary now.

I guess to summarize, the thing that bums me out and scares me is just how large the disconnect is between (A) how the local public near each of us is so accepting and curious about our vaping, and (B) how the heads of government and corporations want to destroy what we're doing, claiming it poorly affects those SAME people who tell us to our face that they support us.

And guess who has more money and lawyers, A or B?

But of course, at the end of the day, I truly hope in the end we can keep doing what we're doing.

(Gah, that felt awfully negative. I think I have to go eat some ice cream or watch cartoons now. )

 

[Kanyin]

Someone needs to come along with a completely stealth vape. Clear or very light. Would solve plenty of problems.

 

[DC2]

I completely agree that vapers shouldn't be disruptive. Billows of vapor where people don't expect it is a rude distraction akin to talking loud or on the phone during a movie. Causing a distraction where other people are trying to quietly enjoy themselves is rude, no matter what you are doing. For instance, taking unruly children to an adult-oriented movie or restaurant. Sure, my kids have every "right" to be there, but I still wouldn't take them, because it's rude to disrupt other people's enjoyment. So I agree there is a time and place for openly vaping.

HOWEVER, anyone who thinks being polite with our vaping is actually going to have any affect on placating the ANTZ and help us avoid attempted bans is 100% wrong. It's not to say we shouldn't be polite, just that it isn't going to have any effect on them trying to ban it. Those are two completely separate ssues. Most of these bans have been attempted by people who have never even seen an e-cigarette used in public. Ironically, many who finally do have one demonstrated to them change their mind about them (as long as they aren't true ANTZ) And nearly all of the support we see coming ftom non-smokers also comes from folks who have experienced vaping up close. There are far more non-smokers inside than outside with the smokers and if we can convince THEM not to support vaping bans it makes the ANTZ job a lot harder. But if the non-smokers only see us vaping far away with the smokers, they'll have no first-hand experience that supports our claim that the ANTZ are lying.

Not having to go outside and businesses being allowed to cater to vapers are a HUGE win toward social acceptance and normalization of vaping. If people continue to associate it as negative behavior, we will continue to suffer the same plight as the smokers - ostracized, over-taxed, over-charged for insurance, denied employment and generally sneered at and looked down upon. There are far greater reasons to fight for indoor use than convenience. Its about gaining the same social acceptance for vaping that caffeine users currently enjoy and ending unfair discrimination of nicotine consumers.

This post should have 4,827 likes...
But I could only give one.

 

[Thamyris]

I agree with you Vape... I can only imagine how much backdoor money the tobacco lobby is throwing around behind the scenes to kill ecigs.

if anyone has any sense as far as the tobacco companies go they would realize it is a train in the industry.
and as far as that goes it is the same as the "ISO" movement. you either jump onboard or you get ran over.

if they were smart they would jump on board.
as some, or many are in the within of , .ones own natural concentrates derived directly from "tobacco" .......if they wish to fight it fine.
but it is not the intelligent choice, only the greedy one they are making.
if they wish to survive in "and as" within any industry they must jump on board.. they will in the end be over run....

i make my own juices... but even with that i would like to see major brand regulated juices on the market for those that dont diy juices.

 

[Thamyris]

I havent thought of that for years. Yes, In the high school parking lot we would all congregate and smoke inbetween classes. I dont think there was a smoking age then? Wow.

Quote Originally Posted by ed101z View Post
Those were the days indeed!!! In high school (1980's), us 15 yr olds were allowed to smoke between ever class. That WAS the place to go to 'socialize', and it was the best way to meet a hot chick. Can't even count the times some hottie would say ..."Can a bum a smoke?"
I havent thought of that for years. Yes, In the high school parking lot we would all congregate and smoke inbetween classes. I dont think there was a smoking age then? Wow.


yes there was a smoking age regulated in the 1980's the same as it is today. the age of 18.
what may have been tolerated and what was legal are 2 different things

 

[OlDogNewTricks]

I completely agree with you. When I see people vaping in a grocery store, I flinch. Every time I hear the 'protect the innocent children' saw, I cringe. The fact is that cottage industries that don't produce copious income for the government or their lobbyists are going to be regulated out of business. While there is no long term efficacy data on vaping, there is no doubt that it is better than analogs. Unfortunately, everyone that has uttered '...my right to vape...' is not helping the cause. It just gives the naysayers more ammo. All the while, we forget that law can be made by the people. Why are we not working to making vaping protected by the very government we rail against? Why aren't we working toward replacing the nicotine in e-liquid with caffeine so it would be considered a food? It always comes back to the benjamins. Always.

 

[chesty]

i have empathy with the non vapers who don't want to sit in a crowded restaurant with clouds above their heads.
It might be legal to clip your toenails on a train, but it's nasty. I don't want to see that.

but vaping in a bar in my mind should be fine, or maybe a vape corner in a restaurant (would you like to sit in vaping or non-vaping?), or somewhere a little discrete.

but making vapers go outside and stand with the smokers 50 feet from the entrances of a door is stupid.

I'm sure this has been done, because great minds think alike. a modified asthma inhaler anyone?
yeah, my asthma is really bad today, boss, but i thought i should come to work anyway.

 

[Mark Anthony]

As long as we stay respectful of others while we were vaping everything will be fine. When I vape I don't do it in a way to draw attention to myself.... nor do I try to hide it.