Dark Truth behind e cigarettes ..A rant

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Criticalmass

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I think when you call this a hobby you invite people not to take it seriously. For me this isn't a hobby, it is extending my life by years (hopefully) so that I am around longer for my wife and child.

IMO Calling it a hobby trivializes this and can skew the public's perspective on how they view e-cigarettes.
 

JMarca

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I agree with you vape... I can only imagine how much backdoor money the tobacco lobby is throwing around behind the scenes to kill ecigs.

Not nearly as much as they throw around trying to promote them. Big tobacco doesn't want to kill this industry they want to embrace it. It's the pharmaceutical companies that want us out.
 

Criticalmass

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Nobody can stop us from vaping.

Reasons:
  1. Inability to ban ingredients used for e-liquids or there would be no food to eat.
  2. inability to make it illegal (because it is already protected and regulated due to the tobacco companies)
  3. Nicotine is used for medicinal purposes. In low doses it is used to treat depression. It has been proven to be as harmful as caffeine
  4. Inability to ban hardware components. Too easy to make tanks ourselves, banning batteries would end the world. lol Tanks can be made at home.

Food grade ingredients used in e-liquids are used in foods every day. The absolute worst they could do is try to ban vendors from selling pre-made e-liquid. This would result in all of us becoming DIYers and probably end up selling it under the table.

The hardware is harmless. They have no case for banning individual hardware pieces except possibly for the tanks that hold the liquid, which CAN be constructed at home with a few tools and materials. These devices are decidedly low-tech.

Nicotine is already in wide-spread use. It is used in the medical profession and by big tobacco companies. We already have laws in place to regulate the sale of nicotine products, nobody is going to want to see it banned.

The best the FDA can do is regulate and tax the sale of hardware and e-liquid making it more expensive. Honestly, the regulation is going to be NEEDED. The vendors are going to HAVE to start listing disclaimers which MANY do not do now.

I can see the FDA doing the following:

  1. Forcing vendors to have disclaimers on labels for e-liquid about potential allergic reactions to ingredients and making them disclose whether or not they use alcohol.
  2. Regulating where the ingredients come from and requiring vendors to apply for certification based on ingredients they use.
  3. impementing hard age limits for the sale and use and fining vendors that sell to minors.
  4. taxing it into oblivion like they do with cigarettes.

I mean, some of these vendors are using alcohol in their liquids. Guess what? Alcohol requires the buyer to be 21, not 18. So these vendors are breaking the law-- The potential for bad press with this one is huge. All we need is one vendor being popped by the ATF for selling alcohol-laced e-liquid to minors and the entire industry is going to be scrutinized. It doesn't matter if the content is burned off and becomes harmless--You still have to be 21 to buy it even if it is cooking sherry.

So the real issue is potentially foolish or ignorant mom & pop operations that are using ingredients that might land someone in the hospital if they have a bad reaction to it and the news goes viral. Once it's all over the Internet the FDA/ATF etc. will be scrambling to begin enforcing laws already in place and creating new regulations to "protect" the public.

Vendors should be voluntarily posting those disclaimers and ingredient usage in their products. "This product may contain alcohol and you must be 21 to purchase, blah blah" or "this product contains PG and some users may have an allergic reaction, blah blah".

Self regulation is the only way they will be able to avoid regulation by the FDA and that is just not happening with these vendors.

And people need to stop worrying about tobacco companies attempting to kill e-cigs. They aren't. What they are trying to do is slow down the growth until they can get their own lines up and running and keep small businesses from taking over the industry. They're probably developing e-liquid right now with all kinds of chemicals to help our bodies absorb the nicotine faster just like they did with tobacco under the guise of keeping the cigarettes from going stale.
 
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kristin

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They don't need to "ban nicotine" to effectively kill vaping as we know it. All they have to do is regulate how it can be sold. If the FDA rules that nicotine can only be sold IN products and that those products must be approved for sale by the FDA, then plain nicotine sold directly to customers would be prohibited. The only people who could buy unflavored nicotine would be companies who make FDA-approved nicotine products. Then DIY could only be done with non-nicotine liquids or you'd have to break the law and buy nicotine sold on the black market. I highly doubt that many existing vapers, let alone 40 million smokers who know nothing about vaping, would be willing to do DIY let alone buy nicotine illegally.

They're probably developing e-liquid right now with all kinds of chemicals to help our bodies absorb the nicotine faster just like they did with tobacco under the guise of keeping the cigarettes from going stale.

What would be the point of tobacco companies doing such a thing? A major draw of e-cigarettes is they are a safer alternative. That would be like a food company buying out an organic company to capture the organic market, adding chemicals and additives to the food and still expecting people who want organic food to keep buying the products. Cigarette sales are declining because people are choosing safer alternatives or quitting altogether and tobacco companies want to capture that ready-made market of smokers who want safer alternatives. Most vapers don't even want to quit, so why is there a need to make them more addictive? Adding chemicals and making e-cigarettes more hazardous would defeat the purpose, so it makes no logical sense. The ANTZ would love for people to believe that tobacco companies would purposely contaminate e-cigarettes. Let's not give them ammunition by making up scary-sounding things for them. ;)
 
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Zealous

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I think when you call this a hobby you invite people not to take it seriously. For me this isn't a hobby, it is extending my life by years (hopefully) so that I am around longer for my wife and child.

IMO Calling it a hobby trivializes this and can skew the public's perspective on how they view e-cigarettes.

Well....in fairness I don't think anyone should tell anyone else what they should "call" vaping. I mean, there ar plenty of people who I think CONSIDER cigars a hobby. Or at the very least they consider it a luxury. Same goes with pipes. There are people who like to try out different pipe flavors & collect nice pipes. I don't see vaping as very different from these 2 activities & I do think that as vaping becomes more known about it will be treated in a similar fashion to these 2 things.
 

Lunger

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At this point I wouldn't be surprised anymore by whatever heinous action the government decides to commit next upon the citizens of the US regarding vaping or anything else for that matter. We are living in a near totalitarian system anyway. I believe They won't be able to fully stop vaping or anything else for that matter, they'll just find a way to turn us into outlaws or criminals if we don't comply. Don't know how soon but I suspect to start hearing falsely fabricated news headlines about children dying from vaping their parents gear, or houses catching on fire and causing mass destructions to property from faulty batteries. Then before you know it "terrorists" will begin using APV's to blow things up. They'll just make it up as they go along if they really want to eliminate vaping, the same thing they usually do with everything else.

With all the fema camps popping up all over the us, the boston/watergate incident, the gun control frenzy, TSA, etc. I don't believe in my government anymore. I will continue to vape regardless of what happens, even if it means becoming an outlaw.
 

Zealous

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What would be the point of tobacco companies doing such a thing? A major draw of e-cigarettes is they are a safer alternative.

Well the point (if they were thinking along these lines which I would not put past them since they did it with tobacco) would be to make them "more addictive". We do live in a world where people think this way now unfortunately.

HOWEVER, anyone who thinks being polite with our vaping is actually going to have any affect on placating the ANTZ and help us avoid attempted bans is 100% wrong.

I agree with this. Me personally, I DO vape respectfully & I am considerate of my environment when I do it. But I don't do it to create some kind of impression so as to convince anyone. I just do it cuz it's the right thing to do. I actually like being polite so no matter what I do I try to exercise this practice.
 
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DC2

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Well....in fairness I don't think anyone should tell anyone else what they should "call" vaping. I mean, there ar plenty of people who I think CONSIDER cigars a hobby. Or at the very least they consider it a luxury. Same goes with pipes. There are people who like to try out different pipe flavors & collect nice pipes. I don't see vaping as very different from these 2 activities & I do think that as vaping becomes more known about it will be treated in a similar fashion to these 2 things.
Unfortunately, the way cigars and pipe tobacco are treated is probably going to change.
They are both supposed to be subject to the same deeming regulations that threaten electronic cigarettes.
 

kristin

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Well the point (if they were thinking along these lines which I would not put past them since they did it with tobacco) would be to make them "more addictive". We do live in a world where people think this way now unfortunately.

Except that there is no actual proof that tobacco companies actually succeeded in making cigarettes "more addictive." That is an unsubstantiated claim made by the ANTZ to further vilify tobacco companies. Did tobacco companies suspect that the ammonia treatment used to mellow the harshness of smoke also more effectively delivered nicotine? Yes. But the ANTZ have never shown that the process actually made cigarettes "more addictive." They "suspect" that it "may" make them "more addictive," but never proved it. We all know how ANTZ like to use words like "may" and "could" to scare people - like "e-cigarettes could cause addiction and youth to start smoking." A hypothesis could just as easily be made that more effective delivery of nicotine would cause smokers to need to smoke less to get the nicotine they needed and that actually made them safer (because less smoke exposure is better.)

Even going on the theory that tobacco companies actually did make cigarettes more addictive, the reasoning would be to keep people from quitting. According to surveys, vapers are mostly smokers who have no intention of quitting, so why the need to "keep them addicted?" They already have a willing customer - so long as they remain safe, effective and affordable. ;)
 

Ranic85

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The dark truth behind e cigarettes is.. it is never going to be accepted or tolerated.Picture if you will we(vapers) grow in huge numbers now picture in crowded restaurant about 50 or so vaping away with plums of vapor rising up you think they are going to just say its harmless vapor? no they are not! They will turn around and walk out because it looks like smoke and people are scared to death of it.They have convinced people that second hand smoke kills.And yes we can have strength in numbers but it will be are own undoing.You can look for the spooks to sabatoge this industry the same way they did every thing else to gain control.If they can't find anything wrong with it they will invent it.The mods will probably delete this post because it is so negative But I see the same thing that happened to smoking is happening to vaping.I will continue to support cassa and this forum and anything else vape related but in the end we are going to lose. end of rant

This is part of the evils of democracy. The majority wins, the minority gets screwed.
 

Jman8

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I agree with OP that (the dream of) vaping being widely accepted and tolerated is never going to happen. And I see the same thing that happened to smoking occurring with vaping. Which is well underway, and apparently many vapers are on that train. Ya know, that it is reasonable to not allow vaping anywhere in a hospital.

The golden era of vaping anywhere, everywhere is coming to a close with vaping. About 50 years less of a golden era than smoking got to enjoy. Maybe more years for smoking, I dunno, and doesn't matter as vaping golden era was far shorter.

Now if you smoke outside, come inside, and smell like a smoke, that is deemed disrespectful to the people who have to share that space with you. Thus, smoking anywhere is now essentially deemed disrespectful.

I find vapers underestimate what we are up against. It isn't just regulations of nicotine and gear, which is critical here in 2013, but moreover it is the perception of 'still smoking, causing a nuisance with second hand smoke/vape' that is what we are up against. Back in say 2010, not really a nuisance and not really an issue. Here in 2013, second hand vapor is a nuisance and, even according to vapors, a very disrespectful thing to be engaging in. Heaven forbid you vape indoors around non vapers.

But I also find it incredibly surprising that vapers don't realize what we are up against and don't realize how swiftly vaping will go the way of smoking. The reason I find it surprising is because many vapers are so anti-smoking now that they are on board with other anti-smokers but for somewhat different reasons. Most ex-smokers hate the smell of smoking now, and can suddenly relate to what non-smokers have been saying for last 30+ years. But non-smokers don't care all that much about ex-smokers plight with smoking and focus squarely on the 'this stinks, is probably horrible for me if you do it around me.' Non-smokers, who are also non-vapers, don't care to be educated with all the intricacies of vaping, and are squarely focussed on idea that vaping does have some sort of odor, contains that evil drug nicotine in it, and thus is probably horrible for me if you do it around me. 'You who need to get your fix every so often like to claim otherwise, but sorry if I don't take your word for it. Wanna do this and allow me to be a little reasonable with you? Then don't do it anywhere in public. Keep it to your home and your car, and we can have a reasonable discussion. Argue that you feel it is okay in public, even outdoors, and I may suddenly show up as unreasonable to you. Get used to it. We did it with smokers, we can surely do it with you vapers.'

So if you are an ex-smoker who is now convinced that second hand smoke isn't just disrespectful, but is likely harmful (to you) then count on many many non-vapers who feel the same way about second hand vapor, regardless of the 'truths' you feel are in play.

Again, I agree with OP, and my way of putting it is the golden era of vaping is coming to a close. I say enjoy it now while you still can, or don't, and think you are being respectful to people who really don't care a whole lot about that sort of respect. They are just glad you aren't trying to kill them.

But the glimmer of hope that needs to be remembered in this is that smoking isn't banned in our society. Vaping will not be banned. I believe anyone that tries to suggest otherwise is engaging in fear mongering.
 

Zealous

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Except that there is no actual proof that tobacco companies actually succeeded in making cigarettes "more addictive."

There may not be proof that cigarette manufacturers did this but that doesn't change the fact that the world we live in IS like this. Video games are made to be "addictive" as much as they are made to be "fun". I trust no company to not take advantage of any advancements, whether good or bad, that will make them more money.

Unfortunately, the way cigars and pipe tobacco are treated is probably going to change.
They are both supposed to be subject to the same deeming regulations that threaten electronic cigarettes.

You could be right about this.
 
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kristin

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There may not be proof that cigarette manufacturers did this but that doesn't change the fact that the world we live in IS like this. Video games are made to be "addictive" as much as they are made to be "fun". I trust no company to not take advantage of any advancements, whether good or bad, that will make them more money

Funny how so many vapers think the e-cig companies are somehow immune to that though. ;)
 
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