I resent ECF's campaign regarding the New Mexico State Rep. Liz Thompson

[Davey59]

Shoot the messenger! he doesn't like my Cheerios!

If the supporters of these anti vaping candidates can't even see the fallacies of their own failed political ideology how can you possibly think they will get on board with this movement. Put down your foam finger and make an attempt to create a current in the corrupt waters that just might l help change the course, even if it just a little.

Got news for all you whiners, "big money" or "big this or that" controls everything, makes money from everything and funds everything. Even YOUR favorite political party. If you don't think it is OK to be involved in a movement that has allies "you" don't approve of then you could just make a clean break. This IS after all a privately owned site and obviously is supporting something you can't get on board with.

 

[Infernal2]

Like, for example, the hypocrisy of promoting a person or organization who promotes a scientific position and an anti-scientific position at the same time?

 

[Racehorse]

After reading all these posts, I've come to the conclusion that there seems to be "purests" on both sides here.

Which is why I posted earlier about nothing being black and white, and people who think that way will never arrive at the Truth.

There is no organization that doesn't have ties to something you don't like, even orgs you support. That is the nature of cooperative efforts, i.e. when groups and people come together to find consensus and solutions.

It's been a huge disappointment to me, in the last 20 years, that people no longer know how to do this: smart people know that when you go to the negotiating table, you don't go with only demands....you sit down knowing that you must give up something in order to get something.

This knowledge (I call it reality) seems to be severely missing in the poarized climate today, and which is probably why nothing ever gets done.

The new paradigm seems to be just throw up blockades, be stubborn, be unwilling to concede anything at all, villianize your opponents, and make everything into either/or and black/white.

Then, call all the people we elect to serve us, regardless of dem or rep, useless and lazy. When essentially, twe've virtually tied their hands and put them in a no-win situation.

I guess that's why I am not registered for any one party. I am still free to vote as I see fit.....and yes, I always realize I am accepting a compromise, because there is never an issue or candidate that is all truth, all perfect or that i agree with 95%.

What i do know is this: the ones who think "their way" is the only solution are the ones to stay away from. They are strangled-thinkers, the least creative thinkers.......can't step even a milimeter outside their own point of view, and would suffocate if you put them in a apper bag that even a simple house cat could walk in and out of We used to call them extremists, but now there seem to be a lot of them. Including in the vaping wars.


The world is not made up of separate circles..it is made up of circles with overlap, and subsets. Politics and/or getting anything done requires finding commonality with the circles that overlap yours.......and then combining and sharing strengths.

Sometimes that commonality, at the beginning, necessitates that you share a few "one night stands" with an org you are not on board with, like BT. It doesn't mean you've married them. It means that you got together, in one or 2 situations, where your combined strength worked an effective solution. then, on to the next, in which perhaps you don't get together.

I worry about what kind of world we are leaving to our children, we've become a bunch of polarized individuals who can't sit down at a table together, guess everything will someday look like israel and palestine.....





Making everyone into the enemy leaves you standing ..........alone. And you can't accomplish anything like that.

 

[HauntedMyst]

Whether Liz Thompson is anti-vape or not, this is totally wrong to support a campaign to defeat her by Gregory Conley, a research fellow with the Heartland Institute.

The Heartland Institute is an extreme right wing political lobby organization. Their views are not representative of the majority of the United States', New Mexico's, or Liz Thompson's district.

I strongly object to ECF becoming a tool of an extreme right wing lobby in the USA.

I'm entirely ok with it. ECF has every right to state their position. If you like you there is probably a vaping forum that will become a tool an extreme left wing lobby in the USA (Aren't all extremists tools at their core?) that you could join. Fighting for vaping is fighting for vaping. ECF isn't going to get involved in gun control, abortion, water shortages or any of the other political issues because that isn't their focus, vaping is.

 

[bluecat]

A

Then, call all the people we elect to serve us, regardless of dem or rep, useless and lazy. When essentially, twe've virtually tied their hands and put them in a no-win situation.

I guess that's why I am not registered for any one party. I am still free to vote as I see fit.....and yes, I always realize I am accepting a compromise, because there is never an issue or candidate that is all truth, all perfect or that i agree with 95%.

Just because you have registered as a party member does not mean in a general election you have to vote that way. You are able to vote within the party itself during primaries to see who gets to run in the general election.

By not registering you basically pick from what other people have chosen. By registering you get to choose for others. It is a perfect out for those that cannot commit or need an excuse as to why not to vote. I hear it many times.. I have not registered for any party but all the candidates suck. Well register and then choose those people that represent you.

 

[UntamedRose]

Just because you have registered as a party member does not mean in a general election you have to vote that way. You are able to vote within the party itself during primaries to see who gets to run in the general election.

By not registering you basically pick from what other people have chosen. By registering you get to choose for others. It is a perfect out for those that cannot commit or need an excuse as to why not to vote. I hear it many times.. I have not registered for any party but all the candidates suck. Well register and then choose those people that represent you.

Not totally true it varies from state to state...some an independent means they can vote in Both caucus, others you can only vote in one but pick the side your picking for at the poll.

 

[bluecat]

Not totally true it varies from state to state...some an independent means they can vote in Both caucus, others you can only vote in one but pick the side your picking for at the poll.

In the US that is just silly. Whether you are a registered democrat or registered republican, in a general election you can vote for the democrat, republican or independent. If you don't the election is rigged and some will get in some nasty trouble. In a primary, it is different.

 

[Racehorse]

It is a perfect out for those that cannot commit or need an excuse as to why not to vote.

I have NO idea why you think I am not registered to vote. I am 61 years old, and have never missed voting since the day I was granted the right to vote.

I said I did not register under the major parties.

There is not a state in the union in which you have to join the DEM or REP to be a registered voter Party affiliation listed on your voter's registration is pretty much meaningless. And you can change it during the year anyway.

 

[bluecat]

I have NO idea why you think I am not registered to vote. I am 61 years old, and have never missed voting since the day I was granted the right to vote.

I said I did not register under the major parties.

There is not a state in the union in which you have to join the DEM or REP to be a registered voter Party affiliation listed on your voter's registration is pretty much meaningless. And you can change it during the year anyway.

Sorry I must have stated it wrong. It isn't about registering vote and I never stated you weren't registered vote. Not that it is any of my business either. Any one can do that. Heck in Ohio, all you have to do is sign a piece of paper when you get your driver's license and you are registered. Well, except when the BMV forgets to put your name in the system. My fault for not checking and assuming the government would take care of me.

Correct.. I was speaking of registering a party affiliation. Agreed it is ridiculous except for the primaries. In both ways.. unscrupulous dems and repubs can screw with the primary voting. It sad but can be done. Anyway... my point was the primaries is where the people who are going to run for the general election are voted in (or at least get that party's nods.. and $s). Without taking part in that primary you are basically saying, I don't care who is voted in or I will choose from whoever you guys want to put in. Then they cry that there is no one to vote for. Quite frankly they didn't vote to put any one in the position to be elected because they skipped out on the primaries.

My other point was it doesn't matter your party affiliation because you can vote in the general election for whatever party you want or heck even write in Fred Flintstones.

If one thinks that the general election is all there is then are severely lacking in the ways of politics and missing out. By the %s that show up at primaries it is a lot.

 

[Davey59]

Nice subject change, always good when you can't defend your position, or lack there of.

 

[zapped]

Nice subject change, always good when you can't defend your position, or lack there of.

Its a tactic thats been perfected in the Outside by people whos first allegiance is politics....on a forum about vaping.

I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions from that particular "logic".

I honestly doubt if some of them even vape at all.

 

[Anjaffm]

@zapped:
you rock! I agree with all your postings here.
And great idea to quote a man who whittled away his people's freedom until there was none left. Until speaking up for themselves was no longer possible without exposing themselves to great danger. Why did the people of Germany do nothing, is is so often asked. I will tell you: because they had no idea what was happening until it was too late.Yes, many cheered for him. As I see people cheering for those who will take their freedom away. Even their freedom to make their own choices in their own personal lives. Well, yeah, they'll get a choice. "Quit or die" is a choice, isn't it?

I fully support ECF's campaign. A campaign against a very obvious liar. One of those severely overweight people who actually have the gall to bleat that "flavors appeal only to children". Say what? Got that body on gruel and tap water, eh? That female is not only a liar, she also thinks that the unwashed masses must be very stupid indeed. Yeah, people, go ahead and cheer for her. And wait for the next lie and the next insult to your intelligence. And, of course, her next grab for the next piece of your freedom. All for the "common good" or the "cheeeldren".

"But this is the only obvious lie she tells! In all other subjects, she is very honest and has only our best interests at heart! Because... because... because that is what her party stands for! " - Yeah? Wanna buy some perfect land in Florida? I can sell you some, real cheap

 

[beckdg]

f you have enough mental capability to be reading this thread, you have the capability to educate yourself on the social and economic issues of our world. It is your civic duty to be knowledgeable enough about a broad range of issues and to properly prioritize your interests to vote intelligently

LOL

Reading this thread doesn't qualify you as capable of intelligence or able to properly digest and discern good information. Damn sure doesn't mean your capable of casting a ballot based on truthful information.

Such is why the real civic duties include something simple... your money. Taxes, tolls, social security... Some of this money is put to good use in civilization... some!

Voting...
It's like helping choose which garbage can your family is going to eat out of. Yeah, the one behind the bakery is going to have some sweet, tasty treats. But even that is going to be so smothered in garbage that anyone who doesn't have to put up with it is going to make their own meals.

Voting is a right. Not voting is an equal right. I know that's not how it was meant to be. But human nature, modern "civilization" and all. There's rarely a choice other than "bad or worse, pick your poison".

 

[Davey59]

Nice subject change, always good when you can't defend your position, or lack there of.

Thought there were a few more lines in this post.

 

[AndriaD]

my point was the primaries is where the people who are going to run for the general election are voted in (or at least get that party's nods.. and $s). Without taking part in that primary you are basically saying, I don't care who is voted in or I will choose from whoever you guys want to put in. Then they cry that there is no one to vote for. Quite frankly they didn't vote to put any one in the position to be elected because they skipped out on the primaries.

When I realized this was when I began voting in primaries -- I used to think that primaries were just for political hacks, political groupies, etc... but they're actually the time when the popular vote counts the most.

Andria

 

[zapped]

Tolstoy said:

There are two methods of human activity -- and according to which one of these two kinds of activity people mainly follow, are there two kinds of people:

One use their reason to learn what is good and what is bad and they act according to this knowledge; the other act as they want to and then use their reason to prove that that which they did was good and that which they didnt do was bad."

Doesnt take a genius to see that so-called "progressives" and liberals adhere firmly to the latter school of thought.

The problem with that way of thinking is that it necessitates lying to ones self and others on a constant basis to justify those selfsame actions and agendas.

Soon, lying leads to delusion and delusion leads to total disconnect from reality and I think thats been illustrated amptly by those on the wrong side of this and many other discussions

Or to put this into words they might understand; A fool can talk themselves into just about anything but that does not change the reality seen by those around them.

As a vaper, my first loyalty is to vaping. Period.

If your first loyalty is to politics, race cars, walking sticks, costuming, cooking etc then perhaps this isnt the ideal forum for you?

*** It should be noted I have the utmost respect for advocates who successfully combine politics and vaping. Their tireless efforts on all of our behalf is much appreciated. In addition I admire them for putting words to action.....something Ive yet to see an armchair quarterback from the Outside even attempt.

And that should speak volumes IMO as these aptly named Outsiders lack the courage of their so-called and constantly changing convictions.

Zero loyalty even to themselves beyond fomenting discord and dissension on a forum thats dedicated to all things vaping.

Their actions make about as much sense as joining a forum about steak ...to discuss working on cars.....while declaring theyre a vegetarian....and actively supporting laws to ban meat.

 

[VHRB2014]

@zapped:
you rock! I agree with all your postings here.
And great idea to quote a man who whittled away his people's freedom until there was none left. Until speaking up for themselves was no longer possible without exposing themselves to great danger. Why did the people of Germany do nothing, is is so often asked. I will tell you: because they had no idea what was happening until it was too late.Yes, many cheered for him. As I see people cheering for those who will take their freedom away. Even their freedom to make their own choices in their own personal lives. Well, yeah, they'll get a choice. "Quit or die" is a choice, isn't it?

I fully support ECF's campaign. A campaign against a very obvious liar. One of those severely overweight people who actually have the gall to bleat that "flavors appeal only to children". Say what? Got that body on gruel and tap water, eh? That female is not only a liar, she also thinks that the unwashed masses must be very stupid indeed. Yeah, people, go ahead and cheer for her. And wait for the next lie and the next insult to your intelligence. And, of course, her next grab for the next piece of your freedom. All for the "common good" or the "cheeeldren".

"But this is the only obvious lie she tells! In all other subjects, she is very honest and has only our best interests at heart! Because... because... because that is what her party stands for! " - Yeah? Wanna buy some perfect land in Florida? I can sell you some, real cheap

I just wanted to say thank you. Sometimes the truth is a very lonely place. Thank you.

R

 

[bluecat]

When I realized this was when I began voting in primaries -- I used to think that primaries were just for political hacks, political groupies, etc... but they're actually the time when the popular vote counts the most.

Andria

People seem to think that the only voting done is every 4 years for the Presidential election. No one really understands the state elections and they power they hold including primaries. There is much more at the local levels that influence the state and federal level governments that it is "crazy". I am far from an expert. The only thing I go on is if one doesn't vote... your opinion doesn't mean crap to me. Pick a side. Make a commitment. If you can't, you are wishy washy. When you pick that side try to get the best person to be voted on. That's the hard part. Most of politics is now "Who is the most likely to win.". Most of the people I vote for the primaries are never put on the general election because they don't lie enough or aren't vague enough. That's fine at least I got my say it what I believe even though the people were afraid of change. A little piece inside of me hoped, Obama would change politics even though I never thought of voting for him. Sadly it got worse.

 

[Anjaffm]

@VHRB2014:

Thank you very much
Actually, the truth is not very difficult to see when it stares one right in the face.
All it takes is the ability to remove the blinders. The ones that have "my party, right or wrong" printed on the inside.

I had always thought that it is "my country, right or wrong". With no mention of some political party. Until some people demonstrated to me that they think differently.

 

[dr g]

I believe Democrats need to take some lumps on this issue. They are totally selling out on it. They are generally the science-based, populist party ... why they are whiffing so bad on ecigs is beyond me.