I see a lot of mods being sold as "clones". Is that the same as "counterfiet"? Theyre much cheaper and look just like the real thing.

[guyvelella]

I seen the documentaries about counterfiet goods. Its scary. They look and work just like the real thing but always come at some hidden cost. Theres the wires from electronics that catches on fire or the counterfiet toys made with toxic materials or the counterfiet handbag made with fake plastic leather rather than real leather, counterfiet shoes that destroys your foot.... Even if the counterfiet product works, its not going to work for long.

I want to know if the "clone" mods which are a fraction of the price of the real thing is made the same way with the same materials? Or is it going to fall apart and stop working sooner?

 

[roxynoodle]

Well, some of each . Some are very good, some are ok, and some are horrible.

This can also be said for authentics though, but "horrible" shouldn't occur as often.

 

[novamatt]

Yes, they're counterfeit. However, many of them are made in the same facility, with the same parts, by the same workers as the real thing (although certainly not all). What happens a lot if times is that the creator will hire a Chinese factory to build them. Then, once the original creators orders are complete, the factory will just go on cranking them out without permission and sell them at much lower prices.

As for the rest, since most of these things are made in China, where patent protections are very different than the rest of the world, they'll just copy it as closely as they can and sell them cheaply.

Generally, anything labeled as a one to one clone is going to be built to identical specs as the original, although they may use lower quality materials.

Clone manufacturers tend to have varying levels of quality. EHPro, for example, makes products that are usually just as good as the real thing. Tobeco and Infinite are going to be close. The rest can be a crapshoot.

 

[Ryedan]

I seen the documentaries about counterfiet goods. Its scary. They look and work just like the real thing but always come at some hidden cost. Theres the wires from electronics that catches on fire or the counterfiet toys made with toxic materials or the counterfiet handbag made with fake plastic leather rather than real leather, counterfiet shoes that destroys your foot.... Even if the counterfiet product works, its not going to work for long.

I have purchased a few cloned products over the years and have had good experiences with them. I did my homework on those purchases first though, bought what I believed was worth while and got what I expected. Sometimes there was a large cost saving involved but I had to make a small modification or accept different specifications. Sometimes it was all savings with no issues to overcome. I never had any problems.

I want to know if the "clone" mods which are a fraction of the price of the real thing is made the same way with the same materials? Or is it going to fall apart and stop working sooner?

Most of my vape gear is from original manufacturers. The clones I have are good ones. Again, I did my research first and bought only what I decided was worth buying.

With lower costs something has to be different. Mostly it's a combination of materials and bigger manufacturing tolerances, though in some cases the clones can actually be better than the originals.

IMO, if someone is not willing to spend some time figuring out what is a good buy and what isn't worth it, they should stick to original manufacturers. There is certainly less chance to get bad product this way.

Hope this helps

 

[drippaboi]

A lot of times you just get what you pay for. If you want to scrounge around the bottom of the barrel price wise, that's probably what you're going to find. But there's a lot of great stuff to be had about 2/3 of the way down.

 

[VHRB2014]

Everything I own is clone.

Just like Ryedan said, you must do your homework first. If you buy the cheapest clone available, you may get the cheapest clone available.
If you know what you are looking at, buy from someone that will accept a return, and in some case`s can handle a little mechanical aptitude when its called for, you can save big and vape happy. The real money is best spent on juice, :?)

 

[klynnn]

I love clones. When I can pay 20.00 for something that works the same as a 200.00 item I consider it a win. Do your research before you buy.

 

[Neolithium]

I love clones. When I can pay 20.00 for something that works the same as a 200.00 item I consider it a win. Do your research before you buy.

^^ I agree. My SXK Stingray X clone is fantastic. Threads are smooth as butter, copper is getting a nice patina slowly, button fires every single time. Cost me a whopping $28.00 compared to whatever the original Stingray X was going for (I think $200+ at most places). I've also had the other end of the spectrum though where a Russian 91% clone was a complete hunk of machined crap, and ended up having a fatal flaw due to bad manufacturing. Such is life, I paid $10 on a gamble and lost.

 

[klynnn]

I've been very lucky with my purchases and have quite a few. That would have been impossible with ridiculous prices for some mods. A tube is a tube but is it worth 200.00 +

 

[Neolithium]

I've been very lucky with my purchases and have quite a few. That would have been impossible with ridiculous prices for some mods. A tube is a tube but is it worth 200.00 +

To be honest, some of the originals are. Just look at the engineering and obvious trial and error something like the Stingray X or KayFun V4 had before going into production, plus higher quality material costs (Stingray authentic isn't low quality copper). If I had the spare $$ I probably would buy authentic as much as possible, but I'm a humble middle income dude so I'm not buying a tricked out Toyota truck, I bought a Ford F150 LOL.

 

[Kenneth38]

Why clones are made? Bcs some person ask for cheaper price, anyway, some clone mods are good but some no.

 

[ProjektMayhem]

I've found the EHPro produces some really high quality clones. That's the brand I buy whenever I'm looking for a cloned version of something.

 

[supermarket]

I seen the documentaries about counterfiet goods. Its scary. They look and work just like the real thing but always come at some hidden cost. Theres the wires from electronics that catches on fire or the counterfiet toys made with toxic materials or the counterfiet handbag made with fake plastic leather rather than real leather, counterfiet shoes that destroys your foot.... Even if the counterfiet product works, its not going to work for long.

I want to know if the "clone" mods which are a fraction of the price of the real thing is made the same way with the same materials? Or is it going to fall apart and stop working sooner?

Although you may not have realized it, the questions you are asking are VERY loaded questions. What I mean is, there is no simple answer as to what exactly a "clone" is, and how the quality compares to the original.

Generally speaking, the way mods work in the e-cig world, is someone comes up with a design, and that person then sends off the specifications of the design to be manufactured at a plant somewhere.

Some mods are manufactured in the same country as the designer....while other mods are manufactured in other countries, China for instance.

What makes a mod "authentic", is generally when the mod is manufactured specifically BY the designers choice plant. In other words, an authentic mod is somehow linked to the designer.


What makes a mod a clone, is when an unrelated manufacturer uses the same specifications that someone ELSE designed, someone unrelated to them, and sells it.


The reason this starts to get tricky, is because often times the "clone" is manufactured at the EXACT SAME plant as the "authentics". This isn't just done in the e-cig industry, it is also done in other manufacturing industries....some as clothes, pharmecuticals, etc.



Now, you asked if clones are of a lesser quality then the originals. Some ARE, some AREN'T. In SOME cases, the clones even perform better than the "originals"....or have newer modifications making it more sought after.

There are companies that have sprouted up, that specialize in cloning authentic mods.....and some of these companies do an exceptional job. If you are considering buying clones, I HIGHLY recommend you buy from these companies. Some examples are EHPro, and Infinite. They clone many delivery devices and mods, and do a great job doing so. Often times, you can't tell the original from the clone.

 

[philoshop]

The additional cost for an authentic (anything) is typically a reflection of that company's expenses for R&D. Buying a clone of that product means that the 'inventor' will have that much less capital to use for pursuing the 'next great idea'. Supporting a company that is being innovative carries with it the reward of future innovation. It's very much a personal choice.
That said, many of the innovators are more than happy to outsource their manufacturing to someone else, knowing full well that their design will quickly be cloned and that they will likely lose some future revenue from their innovation. As quickly as the world of vaping products is moving, unless there is a fundamentally huge step in the innovation there is little sense in even trying to obtain a patent. By the time the original outsourced inventory has been sold, it's probably already old technology.

The big difference is when a company does both their innovation and their manufacturing in-house. That company has to pay for their manufacturing facilities as well as the R&D, and will likely seek patent protection on at least a few of their baseline products. Cloning of those products is illegal in most of the world and should not be supported by anyone IMO.
Just my folks.

ETA: Supermarket posted the above while I was pecking at my keyboard. Good post!!

 

[roxynoodle]

House of Hybrids actually offers services on the ZNA clones like replacing the chip with an authentic Evolv, and improving the 510. So you could buy a clone, send it to them for improvements and come away with a mod very close to the authentic for less money.

 

[bluecat]

It depends. There are some that think the OEM sold to China to replicate their designs while still keep the authentic price tag intact. Others think they are replications and other think it is theft. Pick a side and enjoy the ride.

Personally? I feel the high dollar mod are way overpriced and is a form of theft in its own right. If you want to spend that much though, I have no problems with that as it your money. Some of the flashlight makers could come in and cry foul as most of these are replicated from flashlight tubes.

All of the clones I have "2" I have sanded the logos off. If you really look at the high end mods, they are all the same as well with a minor modification here or there.

 

[Alien Traveler]

What makes a mod "authentic", is generally when the mod is manufactured specifically BY the designers choice plant. In other words, an authentic mod is somehow linked to the designer.


What makes a mod a clone, is when an unrelated manufacturer uses the same specifications that someone ELSE designed, someone unrelated to them, and sells it.

Authentic means "origianal", i.e. not a clone.
A clone means a clone (even if it is made by the same manufacturer)

 

[Miata GT]

Really OP? I see that you're new but seriously with this?

 

[BrushyHillGuide]

OP - to answer your thread title question, "Yes." There are all sorts of excuses and justifications that people come up with to excuse their part in perpetrating the theft of technology. I'm not sure why the US makers have not gotten the Feds off their duffs to seize the counterfeits coming out of China and other 3rd world countries that love profiting off other people's work and abilities; but I've got a feeling it's coming soon. Just like there's a market for counterfeit Gucci handbags, there are always people willing to by counterfeit vaping gear so they can have something they can't afford or are to cheap to pay for.

The most popular argument is "authentics are overpriced" as if it's the consumer's right to determine a price for anything. Funny how you don't hear people saying this about Mercedes, or Audi. It'd be like buying vehicle assembled from stolen parts in Mexico and then using the argument, "those authentic Mercedes cars are too expensive Your Honor so I bought a clone." Lol!

But, since vaping is still in its Wild West days, it's like the rules of modern society don't apply. Lol.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[novamatt]

Our entire industry is pretty much based on clones. The first vaporizers to make a big splash stateside were the Joyetech 510 and the Joyetech Ego, followed by the Ego-T and the Ego-C. These devices essentially started vaping in the US, and everyone who's familiar with them knows that they're made by Joye. Actually, though, they were stolen. Joyetech was the factory that was contracted to build them by the original makers. The 510 and original Ego were designed by a Chinese company named Janty, and the Ego-T and -C were originally made by Ovale. Joye filled the contracts, then started manufacturing them in huge quantities with their own branding and flooded the market. To this day, most people don't know that their original "authentic" devices were actually identical clones stolen from the owners by the manufacturing facilities paid to produce them. I just saw a thread on here a few days ago from a guy who returned his brand new eVic, because he ordered an "authentic Joyetech" device and got one that had logos from some wierd brand he'd never heard of named Ovale. You know, that Ovale company I mentioned above, who also happen to have designed and created the eVic.

That pretty much set the industry off on the wrong foot, and it never moved away from it. Some creators, like Zen from House of Hybrids, don't mind clones, because it's an opportunity to get their creations into the hands of people who can't afford them, but may upgrade to the real thing eventually. Others, like Hana Modz, clearly disapprove. Either way, clones aren't going away. Most of our tech is coming from China, where trademark and patent protection are handled very differently than they are here, and their culture doesn't have the same ethical view of counterfeits that we do.

I agree with the people above who point out that the additional money going to the authentic provides them what they need to design new products, but this isn't a black and white issue - there's a lot of grey in here. While the cloners are copying other people's ideas, there's also a bit of profiteering in there from many authentic makers. An authentic Mutation X or Lemo is $30-40, while other authentic atties, which are the same basic dessigns with a few different features, are priced in the $200 range. I prefer to support the creators when the prices are reasonable, but I'm not going to spend $200-300 on a metal tube with some milling and a few springs. I own an authentic Provari, authentic YiHi SXmini, authentic Beyond Vape hybrid mech, authentic Lemos and Igos (with a Doge on the way), and cloned Kayfuns. My next vape purchases are going to be a Plume Veil and a Magma, and they'll both be clones, too.

If the Mutation X, Doge, and Igo lines can be profitable at under $50, I don't see why similar authentic atties can't also be, which means other RDA manufacturers are pricing them at something like 300% markup or more. I'm in sales, and in my field 10% profit or so is reasonable, 20% is extreme, but acceptable. Over that, and you're usually sticking it to a customer who doesn't know any better. I won't operate that way in my profession, and I won't support others who do. If you make a good product that catches my attention and price it reasonably, I'll probably buy it. If your pricing strategy is "how much can I get for this?" instead of "what's a reasonable profit margin?" I'm not giving you my money.