I think we need the FDA, I really do.

[DaveP]

My local B&M vendor chooses to buy juices made in FDA approved labs. It's not in her best interest to make juices in the back room when wholesale sources are available. She also gets to choose the best juices from multiple labs to stock in her shop. I think that's the way juice manufacture will move in the future. We won't see back room operations with poorly trained workers and non-compliant processes in the future.

Local E-Cigarette Sellers OK With Proposed FDA Rules

 

[Stringplucker]

When you have government involved, you have politics involved. I don't necessarily want politics to be that involved in my life. The AEMSA is the way to go. There are no taxpayer funds involved in operating this group, which keeps politics out of it.

I'll give an example...Teh EPA started off as a good idea, but has gone on a rampage about things that aren't real, i.e. Global Warming. The Department of Education was a good idea...yet we still have high amounts of people not graduating high school. The Department of Energy was supposed to wean us off of foreign oil, yet we still import large amounts of it to our shores.

Do you really think we should trust our government to regulate e-cigs?

AEMSA regulations are agreeable...FDA regulations, or the possibility of higher taxes from regulations, aren't.

 

[stevegmu]

I wonder if the some crowd who feels there should be no regulation would supports regulation in food processing and preparation. We can trust the government to regulate food, but when it comes to a substance that is heated and inhaled into the lungs, then no...

 

[tj99959]

I might be Wrong.

But I do Not Think that the SF or San Mateo County Health Department has any Authority or Responsibility to Inspect a B&M e-Liquid Vendor. And even if they Did Inspect them, to what Standards would they hold the B&M to?

FDA Regulations are going to be a Doubled Edged Sword.

Yes, there is going to be Some Good things. Like Sanitary Procedures and the Banning of say Flavoring that contains Diacetyl. And these regulations I Welcome.

But the Complete Redistribution of the e-Cigarette Market leaving Only BT and BB in Control is where the Regulations go Beyond Health and Safety. And will forever be seen as just a Power/Money Grab.

Where I live.
http://www.co.davis.ut.us/health/ad...moking Devices regulation adopted 2 11 14.pdf
BTW, we ( http://utahvapers.com/ ) assisted in drafting those regulations.

So all the SF or San Mateo County Health Departments need to do is get off their collective butts!

 

[Robino1]

My local B&M vendor chooses to buy juices made in FDA approved labs. It's not in her best interest to make juices in the back room when wholesale sources are available. She also gets to choose the best juices from multiple labs to stock in her shop. I think that's the way juice manufacture will move in the future. We won't see back room operations with poorly trained workers and non-compliant processes in the future.

Local E-Cigarette Sellers OK With Proposed FDA Rules

I didn't know there were FDA approved labs

 

[sky4it]

There already is one. AEMSA: AEMSA | American E-Liquid Manufacturing Standards Association

Self Regulation is a core part of American Culture. Its done in the accounting profession, legal profession and then some. Both these professions have governing authorities at the state level. (State accounting boards and legal boards)

the problem with the given set of FDA regulations is that they give the Federal government sweeping authority.

What will happen if the proposed FDA regs become law? Most have no idea.

Which is why it is good sense to oppose the current set of proposed FDA regulations.

 

[k702]

All well and good in concept.. Road to hell being paved with good intentions and all. But in reality it just doesn't work like you wish.

The much better alternative is that you get word out to fellow vapers in your area to not buy juice from that vendor and let them know why. Tell them to demand better standards of cleanliness. If the choice is clean up or go out of business shops and vendors will clean up or go out of business. These places want your money, demand they give you a reason to give it to them rather than just shoveling it over.

 

[zahzoo]

My local B&M vendor chooses to buy juices made in FDA approved labs. It's not in her best interest to make juices in the back room when wholesale sources are available. She also gets to choose the best juices from multiple labs to stock in her shop. I think that's the way juice manufacture will move in the future. We won't see back room operations with poorly trained workers and non-compliant processes in the future.

Local E-Cigarette Sellers OK With Proposed FDA Rules

I read the article you linked to... Didn't see any reference to FDA approved e-juice labs. I do not believe such a facility exists.

But I think it's important to note that something may be produced in a certified FDA laboratory or manufacturing facility... BUT that doesn't mean the product is FDA certified. It only means the facility, equipment and processes employed are within FDA standards. In many cases no person employed by the FDA has ever set foot in the facility... most cases 3rd party vendors validate the documentation supplied by the facility to certify it.

Go out to alibaba.com and click on several of the Chinese e-cig manufacturers links and majority of them are FDA certified and they proudly display their certification certificates... but not one of their products are.

I work in Information Technology and am FDA certified... My company provides services to several pharmaceutical and medical product manufacturers. We fill out forms, take education and pass tests to get this certification. In my role... it boils down to data security, storage and integrity standards and processes as mandated by the FDA.

I make my own e-juice too... But I wouldn't dare imply my FDA certification has a darn thing to do with it.

 

[zoiDman]

Where I live.
http://www.co.davis.ut.us/health/ad...moking Devices regulation adopted 2 11 14.pdf
BTW, we ( Utah Vapers - Home ) assisted in drafting those regulations.

So all the SF or San Mateo County Health Departments need to do is get off their collective butts!

I like seeing Input from utahvapers.com in assisting with the Drafting of those Reg.

Like I said, I might be Wrong. But as I understand it, there has been No Authority granted to either the SF or San Mateo County Health Departments to Regulate B&M Vape Shops.

I think Many Counties/States are waiting for the FDA to Finalize the Deeming.

 

[Robino1]

I like seeing Input from utahvapers.com in assisting with the Drafting of those Reg.

Like I said, I might be Wrong. But as I understand it, there has been No Authority granted to either the SF or San Mateo County Health Departments to Regulate B&M Vape Shops.

I think Many Counties/States are waiting for the FDA to Finalize the Deeming.

Or, in many cases, not waiting and outright banning.

It's such a mess

 

[tj99959]

I like seeing Input from utahvapers.com in assisting with the Drafting of those Reg.

Like I said, I might be Wrong. But as I understand it, there has been No Authority granted to either the SF or San Mateo County Health Departments to Regulate B&M Vape Shops.

I think Many Counties/States are waiting for the FDA to Finalize the Deeming.

Deeming regulations do not regulate B&M vape shops! They only regulate products. (plus the age limit thing)
Regulating the facilities where products are made or sold are completely different laws/regulations, and have actually been on the books for a very long time, but with very little funding or enforcement at the federal level. Thus it becomes the responsibility of state/county/local government.

You do believe in "State's Rights" ............. RIGHT!

 

[drksideken]

If anything, b&m shops should be held to the same cleanliness guidelines as kitchen restaurants at the very least. I wouldn't want slobs making my juice and an unorganized environment. It's bad news just waiting to happen when it comes to mixing. Fortunately, I mix my own these days and don't have to worry about it so much.

 

[zoiDman]

Or, in many cases, not waiting and outright banning.

It's such a mess

It is a Mess.

You got Fear. You Got Unregulated Products. You got Vape-Ever Advocates. You got Political Grandstanding. You got Tax Possibilities. You got Trade with China. You got BT. You got HUGE Profits to be made. You got the FDA. You got Good Studies. You have Junk Studies.

Just a Mess.

 

[Robino1]

If anything, b&m shops should be held to the same cleanliness guidelines as kitchen restaurants at the very least. I wouldn't want slobs making my juice and an unorganized environment. It's bad news just waiting to happen when it comes to mixing. Fortunately, I mix my own these days and don't have to worry about it so much.

Those are the basic standards that AEMSA used with modifications to fit the e-liquid platform.

 

[Dissonance]

If you're that paranoid, start making your own liquid. It's a hell of a lot cheaper anyway Plus you'll be more prepared for when the FDA does step in and regulate everything to oblivion, since all of the materials needed to make e-liquid have other applications. The only one that might get hit is liquid nicotine... But you can stock up on that now and be set for life

 

[DaveP]

I didn't know there were FDA approved labs

There are probably not that many until the FDA starts requiring certification. It will happen at some point. There are a number of suppliers who claim FDA certified/FDA certified ingredients.

Here's one that claims FDA certification.
Wholesale E-Liquid Products and Supplies, FDA certified E-Liquid Lab, cGMP

We Are the Only manufacturer and supplier of cGMP( Current Good Manufacturing Practices ) E Liquid Juice. What this means to you is that our e liquid is always produced in an U.S. FDA certified lab. This will always ensure the highest purity and quality e liquid available on the market today.

I think it's more about using FDA approved ingredients at this point.
http://www.whitecloudelectroniccigarettes.com/blog/iso-certified-facility/

Most ejuice labs that claim FDA certification are actually clean room labs that conform to some kind of standard set forth by who knows what. Is it ISO or a government agency?

 

[Mig01]

I wonder if the some crowd who feels there should be no regulation would supports regulation in food processing and preparation. We can trust the government to regulate food, but when it comes to a substance that is heated and inhaled into the lungs, then no...

Most of the regulations on food processing and preparation are based on scientific evidence and aim to ensure the adequate quality of the food coming out of those processes. Moroever, everyone eats and unless you grow your own food, you have to buy it from someone, so the quality of the food available affects everyone. Does this mean that I trust the government on all their food regulations? No. For instance, do I favor the government regulating the amount of added sugar in processed food? No, as I consider that as long as the label is accurate as to added sugar, it is my own decision to consume food with added sugar content or not.

The route taken by most governments regarding e-cig regulation does not have much to do with the evidence on the health risks associated with the products, but has a lot to do with restricting the competitivity of those products to protect the pharmaceutical industry smoking cessation products and/or to ensure high taxation to compensate revenue losses from decreasing tobacco sales due to the adoption of vaping. If the government wanted to regulate e-cigs out of real public safety and public health concerns, they would not deem it a tobacco product, which it is not: alternatively, they would not treat it as medication, which it is not either.

 

[Scaralouche]

We don't need no regulation
We don't need no vape control

"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'" -- Ronald Reagan

 

[tj99959]

There are probably not that many until the FDA starts requiring certification. It will happen at some point.

Here's one.
Wholesale E-Liquid Products and Supplies, FDA certified E-Liquid Lab, cGMP

But is it a certified lab for mixing e-liquids, or a certified lab for testing rats, or making false teeth?

I have good friends that work in a "certified lab". They get a sample of your blood or pee and determine if you're dead yet, or just gonna die
There has never been a bottle of e-liquid in that lab.

 

[sneakerpimp]

the FDA is a joke for reasons already mentioned, along with their less than stellar record with harmful drugs they have allowed and helpful drugs they are withholding.