I want an answer!

[just-cass]

Hi Geo,

Thanks for taking the time and effort to give your opinions on thsi issue...what is your stance on the thread created from this discussion?taking into consideration its newness and the fact that it is not an ideal resolution to the problem?just in case you didnt read it there is a positive thread too alongside it and links to forums where responses are allowed.

your views and opinions are greatly appreciated and i look forward to hearing more

cass : o)

 

[Lightgeoduck]

Well JC,

I think it will take alot of work,, but it is IMO a great idea.. if not managed right it could be a fail.

this is how I imagine it to be ideal

1. person has issue tries to resolve it with supplier
2. person posts review in the available sub-forum provided by ECF
it gets responses back an forth yadayadayad
3. person posts in sticky group to sort of archive it
links to persons review in ECFs sub-forum for response purposes

I really like the idea of a thread of Original posts with out the clouding of others opinions

its sort of like how Don did his illustrated Guide posting a link to comments to illuminate clutter. I didn't read the rules yet, but that would be an idea if you haven't done it is that prior to posting you have to post in the suppliers review sub-forum first and then link to it......

sorry its almost midnight here and I can't dedicate myself to the research so I appologize if there is any redundancy


also I am in the near future going to dedicate some time to your awesome of an idea social group

 

[just-cass]

Well JC,

I think it will take alot of work,, but it is IMO a great idea.. if not managed right it could be a fail.

this is how I imagine it to be ideal

1. person has issue tries to resolve it with supplier
2. person posts review in the available sub-forum provided by ECF
it gets responses back an forth yadayadayad
3. person posts in sticky group to sort of archive it
links to persons review in ECFs sub-forum for response purposes

I really like the idea of a thread of Original posts with out the clouding of others opinions

its sort of like how Don did his illustrated Guide posting a link to comments to illuminate clutter. I didn't read the rules yet, but that would be an idea if you haven't done it is that prior to posting you have to post in the suppliers review sub-forum first and then link to it......

sorry its almost midnight here and I can't dedicate myself to the research so I appologize if there is any redundancy


also I am in the near future going to dedicate some time to your awesome of an idea social group

hi geo...your thoughts are exactly what i envision...it can be moderated to an extent...eg. make sure posts are factual and not libelous, make sure rules are adhered to,make sure posts arent flooding in from one member all the time....but it would be a superhuman feat to ensure all posts are made in the sub forum first and this thread is so people who dont want their posts clouded/misinterpreted/attacked to feel free to post. by having to create a post in the subforum first seems counterproductive to that purpose?

it would be a good *suggetion* to make in the rules but to enforce it would as i say be counterproductive...in my own opinion...

 

[Lightgeoduck]

yes force would be a bad thing ... so I would say to make is a bad choice of words.
but anyway I think you have a blossoming idea though

 

[just-cass]

i have edited the rules in two places to encompass your thoughts on this...

PLEASE NOTE: This thread is a tool and can be used in a positive or a negative way. Think about the supplier you are about to write about. If you feel there is another way to correspond with them and resolve an issue this is your first port of call,then perhaps if you feel it would be beneficial raise the topic in the suppliers subforum - ask youself have you given the supplier every effort to respond and deal with your issue?

and also:

(suggestion: If you have posted already in the subforum and wish to post a link please do so)

 

[AlexTM]

f its monitored properly and kept from becoming a place for negative people to bash suppliers and the customers that use them, its great.Ive seen to many negative people who cant stand for others to be happy and make comments about fanboys.

I have called a few people "fanboys", although the term does not originate with me. I have also posted a review that was not very positive. It was however a review of a device, not a vendor. Nevertheless the very same people who here demand the right to harass everybody who posts what they don't like ganged up in the review thread with exactly the same comments complained about here: I never had that problem, you have to do something wrong, that is utterly impossible, and so one.
Completely missing from their "comments" was anything substantial, like adressing the problems I talked about; except to say, of course "I never had that problem, you must have been doing something wrong!"
Somebody even demanded that the thread should be closed. Somebody most obviously does not support open discussions.

Now of course I knew they would not like my review; they dislike everything that is not complete and utter praise of their favourite plastic burner. No news there. But I happen to know my quite thick skin and how it compares to other people's skin thickness. And that makes me guess that they are very successful in turning this forum into one where their favourite plastic burners are not to be criticised. But I don't think that is what this forum should be. Open discussion also means that views you don't like are still not being harassed out of view.

And, that "can't stand for others to be happy". Uhm … excuse me? Somebody posts a negative review about a decive you happen to like, or is not happy with your favourite vendor, and that's because they "can't stand for others to be happy"? Right …
Although, actually, they have a point: If their happiness depends on their ability to freely harass people with different opinions, then I for one can't stand that kind of happiness. That however is a rather specific form of "happiness", I should say.

 

[just-cass]

Alex thankyou for coming forward with your opinion....you must know(as everyone does by now!) my thoughts on the discussion so i neednt analyse your post but merely thank you for your valued input and opinion

cass : o)

 

[GoodDog]

Some people like to debate and are good at it, others may not be as good at expressing their thoughts. Some people just don't want to. Does this mean they shouldn't have an opinion and be able to voice it? No! ECF has a diverse population, some are sick or disabled, some are old, some English isn't their first language, some aren't as educated as others. To say a member shouldn't post or have an opinion unless they want to debate is single-minded and insensitive.

 

[just-cass]

Some people like to debate and are good at it, others may not be as good at expressing their thoughts. Some people just don't want to. Does this mean they shouldn't have an opinion and be able to voice it? No! ECF has a diverse population, some are sick or disabled, some are old, some English isn't their first language, some aren't as educated as others. To say a member shouldn't post or have an opinion unless they want to debate is single-minded and insensitive.

I see what you mean gooddog...i dont like debating(!) believe it or not in real life and on this...i knew this would call for a debate eventually but was prepared as i am passionate about the subject and when i stand behind something i believe it makes it alot easier to write on it...also through the medium of text its easier to collect my thoughts and phrase things better(although i dont always!) but i do have a view of what its like to feel incapable of writing and maintaining my stance on certain things...it proves more difficult when it feels like everyone is against you. The issue is overclouded by the debate on the issue!!!

thanks for posting

 

[GoodDog]

Alex, I admire you for your fortitude and staying "on topic" in the thread you reference. I appreciate your review. It took a lot of your time and energy and it wasn't something you benefited from doing. It's reviews like yours that help all of us make a decision whatever that may be.

There are a few vendors I stay clear of because of their customers. I don't want to debate or get into mud-slinging so I often avoid vendors where that will happen if I don't agree with everything being touted. Whether or not this is what others think is the right thing to do is moot. I have to choose my battles carefully and depend on others' reviews. As soon as I see members bashing a reviewer I mark that vendor as a "do not buy from" and the list is growing! Many times it has less to do with the review as it does the mentality of the responses to the reviewer.

 

[anim8r]

I just don't see it the same way I guess.

I see a lot of negative feedback here on the forums (Smoking Everywhere, for example, they are infamous) and I don't see a huge amount of sugar coating from others. What I do see is other people helping out with examples that helped them in the past.

I think this is a very civil board and it's a breath of fresh air imo.

Most issues can be solved by the supplier, and when it can't be fixed to someone's satisfaction, there are a ton of others to choose from.


There's even a sub-forum "suppliers to avoid" unless that's changed recently.

Since these devices are so freaking cheap (most devices and their kits can be had for the cost of a carton or two of regular smokes, and we literally burned that money away), I can stand to get a bad item here and there.

However, if I get continual crappy service from someone, I don't care what anyone says, I'm posting it.

Like I said, I've seen posts about crappy products and crappy service and they seem to stick around in the general forums. I can understand a supplier modifying his/her forum though.

 

[316lvm]

taryn thanks for your input.

ive just gotten so many pms in the last few hours of members new and old afraid to speak up because "its not worth it all the stick i get for posting"...members are drowned out so much by an overwhelming amount of posts and threads and responses that the messages dont get across. this is definitely not a perfect response to the issue but its a trial as you say and we will see what happens. it may very well turn sour if we allow it to but this site is full of good people and honest people who have real experiences that are not being dealt with...

we all have a mind of our own and will take what we want from any posts on this thread but it may become apparent over time that the posts are showing a pattern???who knows...we will have to wait and see...

I am going way out of my comfort zone to post - but unfortunately, I am one of those who feel it's just not worth it to post. Over the past month I have seen some pretty mean posts towards other members of this forum. I have read posts by new members who have back peddled to avoid getting lashed at. I have seen members move on and other members post an attitude of "See ya, wouldn't want to be ya!"

I have seen members with thousands of posts after experiencing quite a negative reaction, play it safe and stay with only certain sub-forums. I've seen posts deleted, twisted, altered, taken out of context, favoritisim and cliques.

Mind you, I don't fault the mods in this. I truly believe that they are doing a great job considering how many posts are made and the fact that ECF is growing at a phenominal rate. There is no way I could even begin to do their jobs without going batty.8-o

I have also run across some true angels here in the forums. People who have gone out of their way to help others, to impart wisdom, who have the patience of Job to answer the same ?'s over and over again. People who have put together tutorials, who've done research, and shared information. People who have given such tremendous support and rallied around each other shouting, "You can do it!! Don't give up!! Yay for you!!" That is the ECF I've come to love.

However, it doesn't take much to turn wine into vinegar. JMO, nothing more.

 

[just-cass]

I am going way out of my comfort zone to post - but unfortunately, I am one of those who feel it's just not worth it to post. Over the past month I have seen some pretty mean posts towards other members of this forum. I have read posts by new members who have back peddled to avoid getting lashed at. I have seen members move on and other members post an attitude of "See ya, wouldn't want to be ya!"

I have seen members with thousands of posts after experiencing quite a negative reaction, play it safe and stay with only certain sub-forums. I've seen posts deleted, twisted, altered, taken out of context, favoritisim and cliques.

Mind you, I don't fault the mods in this. I truly believe that they are doing a great job considering how many posts are made and the fact that ECF is growing at a phenominal rate. There is no way I could even begin to do their jobs without going batty.8-o

I have also run across some true angels here in the forums. People who have gone out of their way to help others, to impart wisdom, who have the patience of Job to answer the same ?'s over and over again. People who have put together tutorials, who've done research, and shared information. People who have given such tremendous support and rallied around each other shouting, "You can do it!! Don't give up!! Yay for you!!" That is the ECF I've come to love.

However, it doesn't take much to turn wine into vinegar. JMO, nothing more.

thanks for your honest reply to the thread...this is in keeping with many other views believe it or not...there are many who feel exactly the same and continue to do so...im wondering is that why there is only one post in the problem forum???

I dont want to run off topic on speculation why there are no posts but i do find it odd...i personally know of at least 6-10 people with valid points to make

and yet the positive forum has more already when it wasnt even the main topic here?

I personally will stand by anyone who chooses to post if their post is valid as im sure the moderators will agree. and if they are found to be treated negatively in another area of ECF it will be a red flare as to why.... which will not go unnoticed by people reading this thread and the other. it will not be tolerated anymore...if you agree with me please post...if you disagree with me please post...if you have another point to make please post.

 

[keyzygirl]

I have called a few people "fanboys", although the term does not originate with me. I have also posted a review that was not very positive. It was however a review of a device, not a vendor. Nevertheless the very same people who here demand the right to harass everybody who posts what they don't like ganged up in the review thread with exactly the same comments complained about here: I never had that problem, you have to do something wrong, that is utterly impossible, and so one.
Completely missing from their "comments" was anything substantial, like adressing the problems I talked about; except to say, of course "I never had that problem, you must have been doing something wrong!"
Somebody even demanded that the thread should be closed. Somebody most obviously does not support open discussions.

Now of course I knew they would not like my review; they dislike everything that is not complete and utter praise of their favourite plastic burner. No news there. But I happen to know my quite thick skin and how it compares to other people's skin thickness. And that makes me guess that they are very successful in turning this forum into one where their favourite plastic burners are not to be criticised. But I don't think that is what this forum should be. Open discussion also means that views you don't like are still not being harassed out of view.

And, that "can't stand for others to be happy". Uhm … excuse me? Somebody posts a negative review about a decive you happen to like, or is not happy with your favourite vendor, and that's because they "can't stand for others to be happy"? Right …
Although, actually, they have a point: If their happiness depends on their ability to freely harass people with different opinions, then I for one can't stand that kind of happiness. That however is a rather specific form of "happiness", I should say.[/QUO................................ Thats what Im talking about.

 

[just-cass]

sorry keyzgirl i ant see where you begin and the quote ends also i dont think i get the point...sorry

I have called a few people "fanboys", although the term does not originate with me. I have also posted a review that was not very positive. It was however a review of a device, not a vendor. Nevertheless the very same people who here demand the right to harass everybody who posts what they don't like ganged up in the review thread with exactly the same comments complained about here: I never had that problem, you have to do something wrong, that is utterly impossible, and so one.
Completely missing from their "comments" was anything substantial, like adressing the problems I talked about; except to say, of course "I never had that problem, you must have been doing something wrong!"
Somebody even demanded that the thread should be closed. Somebody most obviously does not support open discussions.

Now of course I knew they would not like my review; they dislike everything that is not complete and utter praise of their favourite plastic burner. No news there. But I happen to know my quite thick skin and how it compares to other people's skin thickness. And that makes me guess that they are very successful in turning this forum into one where their favourite plastic burners are not to be criticised. But I don't think that is what this forum should be. Open discussion also means that views you don't like are still not being harassed out of view.

And, that "can't stand for others to be happy". Uhm … excuse me? Somebody posts a negative review about a decive you happen to like, or is not happy with your favourite vendor, and that's because they "can't stand for others to be happy"? Right …
Although, actually, they have a point: If their happiness depends on their ability to freely harass people with different opinions, then I for one can't stand that kind of happiness. That however is a rather specific form of "happiness", I should say.[/QUO................................ Thats what Im talking about.

 

[keyzygirl]

Forget it,if you dare disagree you get attacked and called a fanboy.Me and my plastic burning crappy ecig are done here.

 

[just-cass]

Forget it,if you dare disagree you get attacked and called a fanboy.Me and my plastic burning crappy ecig are done here.

keyzgirl i hope you didnt think my postw as negative towards you?i just couldnt read it clearly thats all...sorry if i offended you in some way

your comments are valued and you've provided some very good points in the last few pages of posts. I want you to post here if you have something to add?(that was just a question not telling you to!)

 

[jlmanno]

Well just-cass you really started something here, I'm not sure how many visitors this post has had or many SUPPLIERS may have visited. But something I believe has happened to raise the awareness of members and suppliers alike. I've seen some "fanboys/fangirls" of different sub-forums take a little different attitude to issues and the way they RESPONDED to others on those forums in just the past day. What's even more amazing is that a vendor who I was having an issue with not only emailed me but phoned me to address my concerns with their product and apologize for not taking care of it sooner. Now I believe it has something to do with this thread because I was told to ignore what some of the "regulars" have to say "they tend to like to protect me" on the forum "they keep their eyes open, if one of us is not around"

Hat's off to you young Lady at least mine, for what you have started and the intended purpose of the "sticky's"

 

[just-cass]

Well just-cass you really started something here, I'm not sure how many visitors this post has had or many SUPPLIERS may have visited. But something I believe has happened to raise the awareness of members and suppliers alike. I've seen some "fanboys/fangirls" of different sub-forums take a little different attitude to issues and the way they RESPONDED to others on those forums in just the past day. What's even more amazing is that a vendor who I was having an issue with not only emailed me but phoned me to address my concerns with their product and apologize for not taking care of it sooner. Now I believe it has something to do with this thread because I was told to ignore what some of the "regulars" have to say "they tend to like to protect me" on the forum "they keep their eyes open, if one of us is not around"

Hat's off to you young Lady at least mine, for what you have started and the intended purpose of the "sticky's"

thankyou JL I started this thread to open peoples eyes and create a forum where we support each other and look out for one another...each and every one of us. Its nice to see you noting good things on the forum today whether this thread motivated them or not...

and im glad your supplier resolved your issue...i dont think suppliers can look on these threads but correct me if im wrong...credit where credit is due to the supplier for getting in touch with you personally ; o)

 

[Brewster 59]

when you say "most people" i actually think 99% of people here are believing they are being helpful to the situation...its only when 10 people get back to you and say they have no problem so yours is not valid that it begins to seem a little one sided. I honestly believe people here have the best intentions even in post that seem attacking...they are just stating their point of view, but i also think that for an overwhelmed newcomer who reports back a bad experience(that is valid) they will just be told it is their fault which isn't always the case.

I dont think it is fair to single out gooddog for her "sensitivity". There are many others with sensitivities to this topic who have pm'd me and not spoken in an open forum on the topic so to single her out as an example is unfair in my opinion. She is NOT the only sensitive person. Infact most people who agree with me are sensitive to this issue???
You were in no way derogatory or negative to ehr situation but you did make light of her serious issue...

We have been talking all along about members who have heard time and time again "i didnt have a problem" and "speak to CS first dont post here, no one else has had a problem" and of course these are not bullying but when looked at when there are ten of them on a page in comparison to one poster the odds are stacked and what choice does the person have but to drop the valid complaint.

I have made countless pints in these longwinded pages and i wont reiterate what I have said but I think that by your singling out gooddog on her "sensetivity" you have "singled out" alot of people here and "singled out" a "didnt see it,it didnt happen" idea?

So i put it to you, have you personally never seen posts where a poster comments and 99% of replies are in support of the supplier saying the poster is wrong. Or saying "Ive never had a problem with them"...Individually sure this is one example but these examples are dotted all over ECF.

I want to edit this to tell you that this is not personal, I am just saying my piece as you have and I dont want to seem as if i am against you, i just happen to disagree with some things you have said. We are all at ECF on the SAME SIDE and I view all of you as my friends here.

I personally dont understand why anyone gets upset if people disagree with their opinion, different opinions are how I personally learn from others and may decide that they are right.

There are times when people need to agree to disagree like the great Eric Clapton says ''there aint no good guy, there aint no bad guy, theres only you and me and we just disagree" as long as people treat others with opinions that differ from theirs with respect it should be all good.

If all else fails and a particular persons post bother a person we always have the ignore option which I use for a member I dont want to sees posts.