I'm Ready! Well, almost....

[Mr.Mann]

I am happy to have found myself here, and although it was in a circuitous manner, it makes total sense!

I would like to order snus, but there are a few things that I need to get straight. These things may or may not be the common questions, but here they are:

1) Since I vape 24 mg to 32 mg, I don't feel I am lacking for nicotine flowing through my blood, is the nicotine delivery in snus noticeable and do you vape less higher nicotine after using snus? And if it is noticeable, what's it like and how long does it last once it comes on?

2) Piggybacking off of question 1: since the only reason I am interested in snus is for the alkaloids, is the nic percentage even worth that much consideration? I have seen "no nicotine" snus, and while I am not sure how that would effect the experience, would zero nic snus still contain the alkaloids? I imagine it would, but I am not certain.

3) Since there are alkaloids present in snus, do they have a synergistic, almost, balancing effect with the nicotine, like smoking, or does the nic in snus still give more of the stimulating effect like vaping? Smoking gave me NO stimulating effect--I have read that smoking helped some people "wake-up" and for me, it was the complete opposite!

4) The main reasons (I think, LOL) I vape high(er) nic is due to the flavor spike and TH, however, if I vape myself silly, I do get spun; this is one of the reasons I would like to try snus. Also, due to the nicotine in vaping being so unadulterated and primarily being a stimulant, could snus be the counterbalance that I am hoping for?

Hell, sometimes, depending on the situation, I don't even like to vape due to it having ZERO sedating effects.

I typed this up quickly, so if I asked the same thing more than once, obviously I will only need a comprehensive answer. If my questions make no sense, well, then I have bigger problems.

 

[Stubby]

I'll try to get to some of it but I may miss some.

The no nicotine snus does not have tobacco in it so no minor alkaloids and no nicotine. Don't ask me why it is on the market but someone must be buying it.

The nicotine in snus has the natural balance, the same as all whole tobacco products. For the most part snus has the same type of balance that smoking has. It is different though. The main thing is you will not get the big spike that is gotten with smoking. It comes on slower and can take 5 to 10 minutes at least to start feeling the effect. That can take a bit of an adjustment. The good part is that it last a long time. I routinely get by with one portion every 3 hours, and do 5 to 6 portions a day. It doesn't have the stimulating effect of vaping. Well, for me it does have a stimulating effect but is balanced with the relaxing, more satisfying part from the minor alkaloids.

What balance works for you is going to be very individual. Wether you predominately vape and supplement that with snus, or manly use snus and supplement that with vaping, or as some of us have done, give up the ghost on vaping and just snus, is all something you will have to work out for yourself. Your brain and body will tell you what works best for you. You just have to experiment and find out what works.

 

[Mr.Mann]

I'll try to get to some of it but I may miss some.

The no nicotine snus does not have tobacco in it so no minor alkaloids and no nicotine. Don't ask me why it is on the market but someone must be buying it.

The nicotine in snus has the natural balance, the same as all whole tobacco products. For the most part snus has the same type of balance that smoking has. It is different though. The main thing is you will not get the big spike that is gotten with smoking. It comes on slower and can take 5 to 10 minutes at least to start feeling the effect. That can take a bit of an adjustment. The good part is that it last a long time. I routinely get by with one portion every 3 hours, and do 5 to 6 portions a day. It doesn't have the stimulating effect of vaping. Well, for me it does have a stimulating effect but is balanced with the relaxing, more satisfying part from the minor alkaloids.

What balance works for you is going to be very individual. Wether you predominately vape and supplement that with snus, or manly use snus and supplement that with vaping, or as some of us have done, give up the ghost on vaping and just snus, is all something you will have to work out for yourself. Your brain and body will tell you what works best for you. You just have to experiment and find out what works.

Pretty comprehensive there, Stubbs!

Give up the ghost? You mean you aren't throwing money at the problem? hahahaha!

Thanks

 

[rothenbj]

I bought a can of no nic just to see what it was like. I may have used three portions and it's still in the freezer.

As Stubby said and what has become very clear after spending years around here and reading various articles, effects are very individualized. For me, snus is very relaxing, at times the calming effect is almost too calming. That's one of the reasons I love it so. I'll use 4-5 portions and have them in the vast majority of the day and night for that matter. For me it has awaken a dream state that is quite remarkable (or perhaps it's just my age), but I'm constantly in dreams about various events thru my life taken into dream circumstances. Sleeping is almost as fun as being awake.

You've probably read my posts in the WTA thread, but vaping has become more like a fine cigar for me. Almost exclusively WTA and only 1-2 ml per week and 90% of that usage is in relation to being at a bar, mostly on a Saturday where I live for 7-8 hours. Before you think I'm a drunk, I run a poker game there on Saturdays as well as 4-5 hours on Monday and Wed, nights so I'm in a bar nearly 20 hours a week working and having fun I play too).

 

[hittman]

Mr. Mann, I use about 7-8 portions a day along with vaping. I've always been in the category where I need high nic and high minor alkaloids. I didn't drop the strength of liquid that I vape but did considerably drop in the amount of liquid I use each day. It wasn't necessarily on purpose but noticed after a while that I was going thru about a quarter of the amount that I did before snus. I still use 32 and 24mg liquids but use a lot less. Like you mentioned, I crave the throat hit and feel like the stronger liquids do a better job of delivering that.

My experience with using snus has been that even if I use too much that I never get edgy like I do if I vape too much. It's quite the opposite. Too much seems to make me over relaxed if that makes any sense. I've seen the same experience with vaping too much WTA liquid when I got 30mg unflavored from Dvap and used it exclusively for a week or two. I would suggest starting with some 8mg portion snus. I use a 16mg portion in the morning first and then switch to 8-12mg portions during the rest of the day.

 

[Mr.Mann]

Mr. Mann, I use about 7-8 portions a day along with vaping. I've always been in the category where I need high nic and high minor alkaloids. I didn't drop the strength of liquid that I vape but did considerably drop in the amount of liquid I use each day. It wasn't necessarily on purpose but noticed after a while that I was going thru about a quarter of the amount that I did before snus. I still use 32 and 24mg liquids but use a lot less. Like you mentioned, I crave the throat hit and feel like the stronger liquids do a better job of delivering that.

My experience with using snus has been that even if I use too much that I never get edgy like I do if I vape too much. It's quite the opposite. Too much seems to make me over relaxed if that makes any sense. I've seen the same experience with vaping too much WTA liquid when I got 30mg unflavored from Dvap and used it exclusively for a week or two. I would suggest starting with some 8mg portion snus. I use a 16mg portion in the morning first and then switch to 8-12mg portions during the rest of the day.

I can handle being too overelaxed (probably due to past lives, LOL) but dealing with being too "worked up" does me no good (likely due to past lives, hahaha!)

Thank you all for your help as I have always taken notice of you all's posts, but to be honest, it has taken me a long time to shake off stigmas attached to smokeless tobacco. Even though snus is the most innocuous of all smokeless tobacco, it still took awhile. I think you and Stubby's repeated posts on the matter have always intrigued me, and while I was quick to tell others about you two, I finally told myself.

 

[Faylool]

Stubbs links got to me too. I was asking some questions on Snuson, a small gathering of forum snus ers, that garnered an interesting answer you might be interested in. I basically wanted to know, more nicotine means more WTAs? Aliitle more complicated but one answer basically said the difference between say an astonishing 22 mg nicotine snus and a 3 mg snus was the ph balancing properties used in the snus that facilitates absorption. Stubby might know better about this. So there might be a relationship there if the WTAs are affected the same as nicotine by the ph. Also, some varieties of tobacco are naturally higher in WTAs. Only one I've seen mentioned is Rusticas. So in the end, the differences are not all that great and I decided to not worry about it. In fact it was mostly just curiosity on my part. The blast from a strong nicotine snus will make me nauseated same if I vape too high a nic in a good delivery device. Ive lowered my nicotine level since snusing 3-4 times a day. If you want a fast peak like a cigarette, sniff some good amount of snuff. One could snuff quite a lot really and not get nauseated. Which I don't understand because it packs a little punch. Finally I'm using Makla and Chema because it has barely the salt of snus. I put it in a tea bag my own portion. I don't trust it's sources of tobacco nor it's total purity and the thing that changes the ph for better absorption I dont know much about. But just know, not everyone loves snus. They do it because it works. If you continue to vape fairly high nicotine I'd guess you'd be undermining the relaxing effects of snus or snuff. And also I wonder if I am snusing and vaping together will the ph changing properties of the snus stuff cause my vaped nicotine to be absorbed more? Like Stubby said, the body will talk. I lowered my nicotine in vape. From 36mg DIY to 18 and my 24 mg Pre ades to 18 and sometimes 12. Nicotine alone is just too .....too. Better than smoking for sure but glad I found snus, through the back door by learning about WTAs from vaping world.

 

[hittman]

I believe you are correct about the ph balance affecting absorption. I've read that a couple times before. I think Dvap or TV had discussed that topic a long time ago.

 

[Stubby]

Nicotine and the other alkaloids are...... an alkaloid. They absorb much better if they are in a base (a base being the alkaline side of neutral. Neutral is 7, so anything above a 7 is on the base side). Think of it as free basing nicotine. The higher ph frees up the nicotine and other minor alkaloids into usable nicotine that can be absorbed. If snus was made with a lower base or on the acidic side you would have to do huge amounts of it to get any usable nicotine. I believe Swedish Match tries to keep the ph at about 8.5. In snus they use a type of baking soda to get a higher ph. If you look on a can of snus it will say E500 or E501 which is the scientific name (I would assume but I'm not a chemist).

It's a balancing act with the ph. To low and you aren't going to get much of a hit, and to high will be harder on the gums. I trust the Swedes who have been doing this for a few hundred years to know what they are doing. It seems to work quite well.