Impact of starting tobacco concentration in cold PG extracts to tobacco flavor and coil gunking

[Chinook]

I'm very curious about how the initial tobacco concentration in PG might effect the final ratio of "tobacco flavor compounds" vs coil gunking compounds that don't enhance the flavor and aroma of the vape such as chlorophyll and plant cell material.

I assume that filtering will remove the unwanted particles in the final solution. But there might still be dissolved compounds in the solution that don't add anything to the flavor but gunks up the coils.

I think this will depend on the variability of the solubility of "tobacco flavor compounds" vs "unwanted compounds" such as chlorophyll and plant cell material.

Let's say if we saturate the tobacco with as much as PG as possible, after a certain point of extraction, will the "tobacco flavor compounds" continue to dissolve in PG? Or more and more unwanted compounds will continue to dissolve in PG with the wanted stuff not getting dissolved anymore due to saturation? Or maybe just the reverse?

Obviously extraction time and temperature have an effect on the extraction process. But I think the initial tobacco concentration might also have an impact in this process.

Let's assume that we are using pure tobacco, minimally treated. no added sugars flavors etc.

Let's say :

Extract 1: 10 gr. of tobacco in 100 mL of PG
Extract 2: 30 gr. of tobacco in 100 mL of PG

Let's ignore the effect of PG absorbed by tobacco, which will somewhat but I think by not much change the concentration of the extracts...

juice 1: 30% of Extract 1
juice 2: 10% of Extract 2

I'm curious if there will be any flavor and coil gunking differences between these two juices. I hope to have some good and friendly discussions going on here

 

[boomerdude]

I think there's quite a difference between singular blending tobaccos and flavored, processed or mixed tobaccos. As far as hot or cold extraction of tobacco concentrates for juice mixing goes. I prefer to mix tobacco extracts from blending tobaccos. A Burley, Virginia and Turkish mix for example as opposed to mixing Cpt. Black with Sunday Morning. The processed, flavored tobaccos have more of the "unwanted compounds" that get past the filtering process and gunk up your coils.

I have learned to live with gunk. It's easy to burn off after a session. I think that's why so many vapers prefer cotton wicks as they're so easy to switch out. I'm also convinced that I get better flavor with less filtration.

Also, I would like to see a thread on recipes with DIY extracts. I'm using around 22 or so extracts to experiment with and after 8 months I have 1 recipe that uses just extracts without commercial concentrates. If you want to mix up combo juices with flavorings added you can make some really good Maple or Blackberry Burleys as just a couple of examples.

The problem with extract recipes is that there are several extraction methods that would give varying mix ratios.

That's my 2 cents for now. I'm subscribing and looking forward to hearing from others.

 

[Chinook]

I completely agree with you about mixing tobacco extracts from blending tobaccos. I also suspect that flavored tobaccos have more of the "unwanted compounds", probably more added sugars too.

Are you still using a mix of hot and cold extract methods? In PG, 5 days of 10-20 seconds microwave, then 5 days of "rest", then filter?

Hopefully, we'll get some inputs regarding the solubility of different stuff in tobacco and impact of initial tobacco concentration in the maceration.

 

[boomerdude]

I was using heat extraction exclusively until recently trying cold extraction ( 14 day stew, stirred every 2 days then strained and 1 filter pass through sterile cotton. ) my first go was Full Flake Virginia and it still has another week of steeping to go. I'm looking forward to comparing it to the heated version.

Do you find the Virginia and Turkish tobaccos take a higher extract to base ratio, like say.... 30% as opposed to 20% of Cavendish, Burley, Perique and Fire Cured tobacco's?

 

[Chinook]

boomerdude , do you mean when you mix up a juice? That's interesting and good info. It sounds like the less processed tobaccos need more concentration. Perhaps the processed ones are more readily releasing their "secondary" flavors. Like fermented flavors in Perique and fire smokiness in Fire Cured.

So far I've been only working with American Spirits Organic cigarette tobacco. I just started a second batch of ASO room temperature extract. I haven't worked with any other tobaccos yet. I think ASO is pretty good "pure" tobacco -- I say pure in the sense that it's minimally processed I think... Once I master it, I'll move on the other tobaccos This is very related to what you just posted. I think it's relatively harder to bring out the natural tobacco flavors in minimally processed tobaccos vs the secondary flavors like fire smokiness in fire cured ones.

What is your cold extract concentration like? My first batch was 1 cigarette tobacco per 15 mL PG. The new batch has 1 cigarette per 10 mL PG. I'm assuming ASO cigarettes have 1 gram of tobacco in one cigarette.

 

[boomerdude]

By ratio I meant tobacco extract to the PG-VG-Nicotine base liquid. If I'm mixing a flavored tobacco extract that is all PG I will, for example : Virginia or Carolina 30%/ Toasted Burley 20%/ Izmir Turkish 25%. After mixing those together I figure out how much VG, Nicotine and flavoring to add so that I get 50/50 VG/PG 12% Nicotine.

I bought some Big Spirit extract from NETcom but I diluted it too much. I went 25% when I think 35-40% would've been better.

My cold-extracted Virgina Full Flake was 1/4 ounce tobacco into 100 mls PG. I've got 90 mls steeping for another 6 days. I'll test drip that at 25-30-35% dilution to decide which ratio is right then add VG and Nic to steep again. Once I get the straight juice to my taste I'll know what ratio to add in a mixed recipe. It takes awhile to test each tobacco and even longer for cigars.

 

[Chinook]

boomerdude, we might be talking about different % NET extract calculations. When I say 30% extract, I mean for example:

3 mL of NET extract in total of 10 mL vape ready final product e-juice

Is this what you mean too for your %NET numbers?

Your 1/4 ounce of tobacco in 100mL of PG is very similar to my maceration with 1 gram of tobacco in 15 mL PG ratio. I'm currently steeping a 62% NET extract juice with that maceration!

 

[boomerdude]

We're on the same page as far as that 3ml to 10 ml 30%. I think we might need clarification on extract vs. juice. I'm using all PG in extracting so when I say, Virginia or Carolina 30%/ Toasted Burley 20%/ Izmir Turkish 25%, I'm talking finished extracts mixed together before adding VG and Nic to make a juice. Think of the three tobacco extracts mixed together being one tobacco flavor called Tobacco Mix. In a recipe calculator you would enter this as one flavor at 100% PG. The trick is the % number in the flavor ratio. I start at 50% and adjust down if it's too strong.

 

[Chinook]

OK, I got it now. Thanks