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Ethanol Extract - Full Strong Buzz & Moderate flavor

Discussion in 'Liquid Extraction From Tobacco' started by Lastlokean, Dec 13, 2013.

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  1. Bagazo

    Bagazo Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 19, 2009
    According to the wiki entry for Chlorophyll_a and Chlorophyll_b, (the common types found in plants), they are both insoluble in water. Since PG and VG are also polar solvents, they should not be a problem with extracts made with any of those solvents.
     
  2. Smocian257

    Smocian257 Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 3, 2014
    Green Valley, Arizona
    Tannins though, then again we aren't extracting with acetone here so its debatable how useful this method would be to combat those either.
     
  3. Smocian257

    Smocian257 Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 3, 2014
    Green Valley, Arizona
    Ok, I've got 5 jars, 5 different blends going using your method. Currently fan drying.

    150 cc everclear 190 proof which had been chilled in my freezer before use,

    Tobacco in this series includes Captain Black, Prescott Valley Vanilla, Black Cavendish, Mellow and Baja Blend .One ounce of each, These were capped and placed for 6

    hours in a freezer removed , filterd with aeropress (just experimenting, no reason to

    break out the vacuum filter just yet) and left open and sitting with a fan on them in

    front of an open window They will be left for 24 hours

    until a syrup forms.

    The captain black left a much darker concentrate than any of the others (including the straight clack cavendish) , indicating lots of additives?
     
  4. Smocian257

    Smocian257 Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 3, 2014
    Green Valley, Arizona
    Thread all to myself!

    well these are definitely not "high nicotine / good buzz" , I tried testing for nic levels but they are apparently less than 1% , which I assume also means no other alkaloids would have made it. I did this for taste however.

    and the taste is "meh"

    you could say "cleaner" than the fresh heat extracted ones but definitely a lot that makes those good is missing with this. I'm going to up the concentration level to 25% and see if anything sticks.

    Also curious to see if these are easier on wicks
     
  5. cessnapix

    cessnapix Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 3, 2013
    Northeast

    Thats ok if you have the thread to yourself, just keep posting so we can see how you made out.........

    How did you test for nic levels? Would you not have to test in a HPLC?

    You look familiar, did you do PHD or Masters work at UMO?

    I found the coils less gunky using this cold method.
     
  6. Lastlokean

    Lastlokean Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 12, 2010
    Red Wing, MN
    To be honest I have developed my methods and technique quite a bit sense my original post... I left this place for quite a while due to some disagreements I have had with others among the community. It seemed when I was working on this around here people were more concerned over childish definitions and personal reputations instead of actually achieving something...

    It seems though the environment has changed a little bit, maybe as the federal government taking away our nicotine becomes a more and more serious threat there may develop more interest in DIY extracts... I have always been interested because pure nicotine did not completely solve my tobacco cravings, no matter how high I put the nicotine. Currently I am convinced that what I consume does solve my tobacco cravings, and it is a synergistic effect of tobacco alkaloids being consumed that satisfies these cravings for me.

    Anyways, with regards to my current process... I am not recommending this or making any claims, I try my best not to give advice anymore, this is simply what I find works best for me. Be careful if you are playing with nicotine, the stuff is quite dangerous. :facepalm:

    1: Extract tobacco with room temperature Isopropyl Alcohol, 91%. Usually I do 3 pulls, about 2 hours per pull.
    2: Evaporate it down to ~50%, I then freeze if for 12 hours and then filter it while it is still ice cold. The precipitate is plant gunk.
    3: Evaporate it down to syrup.
    4: Take up the syrup with minimal room-temp grain ethanol.Not Isopropyl Anything of marginal solubility is no-good plant gunk.
    5: Freeze it for 12 hours, filter/decant while cold, then evaporate to syrup. Again the solids are plant gunk.
    6: Repeat step 4-5 at least 1 more time or until you can get nothing to crash out... But be aware each time has some minor losses of alkaloids.

    If you take repeat step 6 enough times, and dissolve the product in a minimal enough amount of solvent you may get the alkaloids to crystallize. This would require a very concentrated solution, and very low temperatures, and most likely a solvent other than ethanol. However, it may be possible with ethanol as it becomes pure, if you are on the second and beyond time of steps 4-5, and you get a bunch of crystalline precipitate, don't throw it away...

    I start with isopropyl because it is cheaper makes it far less cost prohibitive. Then taking it up in ethanol and evaporating that will result in isopropyl free final product.

    Also in regards to making the process less cost-prohibitive, if you own or setup a basic vacuum-distillation setup it is very realistic to save the majority of your solvents. It is also possible to acquire much higher purity solvents by first distilling the over-the-counter sources.

    I am personally very comfortable with consuming this final product, it barely gunks up my coils (actually I think less so than commercial ejuice...) but I don't add any flavoring or other garbage to it... Just the ethanol extract added to pharma grade VG/PG... Based on personal experience I am quite confident the resulting product has a strong tobacco effect, and satisfies my personal craving for a cigarette quite unlike regular ejuice does.

    Call it a NET if you must, sure it may or not be a 'WTA' based on various definition of terms, but it most certainly contains all the goodies the tobacco had to offer, and it is as pure as I can achieve without getting into far more complicated methods. (Distillation, Acid/Base Extraction, etc.) I find that the Acid/Base approach is far to sketchy to realistically achieve with over the counter methods to any level of purity I'm comfortable with consuming.

    Regarding the testing of this extraction, cessnapix you are correct that an HPLC would most likely be needed in order to verify the results. Something I have yet to procure... You could get a pretty good estimate of the alkaloid content by doing a titration only you will have to be working in the opposite direction, because ~90% of your alkaloids are currently already in the form of neutral salts when in tobacco. Unless you treated your tobacco or extraction with a base at some point? Anyways it starts to get messy and based on all kinds of unverifiable assumptions at that point, so IMO it isn't worth doing.

    Putting all the alkaloids in a basic solution would indeed increase the bio availability and the intake of the alkaloids... At least in theory. However in the salt form it would be far more stable and less likely to evaporate! Freebased nicotine is indeed quite volatile, and will easily evaporate away with a solvent if not evaporated under vacuum... I found this out the hard way with a few distillation experiments, and verified it through research... So pretty much you need a quality lab equipment in order to achieve pure freebased nicotine.
     
  7. cessnapix

    cessnapix Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 3, 2013
    Northeast
    Nicley explained.

    You anwered another question I had as well; using store bought alcohol as a wash for further distillation. Unfourtunatley I no longer have the space or glassware.

    Thank you for the detailed explaination.
     
  8. Lastlokean

    Lastlokean Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 12, 2010
    Red Wing, MN
    Starting with isopropyl obviously has its negatives... If you just extract with it, then evaporate to a syrup its a pretty safe bet that some is trapped in the resulting syrup. Maybe minuscule amounts, but its hard to feel fully safe about it... So as long as your further processing confidently removes any isopropyl your probably ok.

    I just realized that inside all of my steps I failed to mention filtration, obviously before it is evaporated into a syrup at each stage it is very thoroughly filtered. I use a quality vacuum filter and a work down to the very fine filters. I wouldn't really recommend this process without a basic vacuum filtration setup.

    I don't necessarily recommend buying a full-fledged expensive vacuum pump for this, but rather a simple water powered venturi pump will do just fine. Commonly called an aspirator, is a type of ejector-jet pump powered with the venturi effect. Most fish-suppliers sell them as a means of pumping water into/out of a fish tank from a faucet, they work. However 3M and a few other companies make a scientific version that can be had on ebay/amazon, and is of much higher quality... So for $20-30 you can be up and running with a quality vacuum filtration system and start using lab filter paper! Just need an aspirator, buchner funnel and filter paper!

    Faucet Adapter 2.jpg
     
  9. gt_1955

    gt_1955 Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 25, 2012
    South Australia
    I have a question if you wouldn't mind? Would you consider putting some measurements (grammes, ml) with your steps please?

    Also, when you speak of grain ethanol, is that the 190 proof PGA, or will vodka do (I don't think so, but I'll ask anyway)?

    It's just that nanny state Australia has banned the retail sale of 190 PGA, although I still have about 200ml left from my experiments with your method from the first page (although I used snus instead of tobacco as tobacco is around $30 an ounce here).

    TIA
     
  10. Lastlokean

    Lastlokean Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 12, 2010
    Red Wing, MN
    I could however I get varying results depending on the tobacco used, so I wouldn't even know which lab notes to copy down.

    With regards to step 1, when doing pulls with alcohol it is also hard to say specifically as the tobacco absorbs lots of alcohol. But I follow general extraction procedure, each pull is smaller than the last. So for example, 4 oz of tobacco go into a 2-liter glass jar, extracted with room temperature isopropyl and constant stirring, first pull with 1 liter for 1 hour. Second pull, 500 ml for 30 minutes. Third pull 250 ml for 15 minutes.

    The purpose to this step is to go from raw plant - crude extract that is later cleaned up with multiple washes and re-crystallization, so if you only had a 1-liter glass jar, and 4 oz of tobacco, doing 5 pulls each with 500 ml for 30 minutes shouldn't really have a significant impact on the final product. Here it is a trade-off of extraction efficiency for purity, extractions from raw product into something pure is a mixture of science and art, and just dropping numbers out there seems worthless in comparison to a few explanations on methodology..

    Total yield will not be 1.75 liters, more like 1.5 liters, so evaporate it down to 50% is highly relevant.

    With regards to step 4, taking up the syrup in ethanol. Again, recrystallizing is more of a practiced art than a specific science, and it has trade offs of purity for efficiency. The resulting sticky extract would be nearly impossible to weigh accurately with the means and equipment I have available. Being as the amount there is variable based on the plant source, it is better to understand the concept than raw numbers that do not accurately exist. So say, add 5 ml at a time, giving it 10 minutes of stirring with a glass rod/paperclip to begin dissolving. Once it seems the majority of the product is dissolved, add 5 more ml to be on the efficiency side of things, or don't to be on the purity side.

    I hope this helps.
     
  11. Johntodd

    Johntodd Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 18, 2011
    USA
    Interesting. Subbed.
     
  12. barjc

    barjc Full Member

    Jun 7, 2015
    Amazingly I read all the topics in this discussion here!
    But before knowing the forum, I had tried my propia liquid extraction, except I got was (with word forgiveness) WTA!
    Basically, it was as follows:
    I took a shredded tobacco enrrolar morron strong and clear color sell here.
    Wet with grain alcohol think it's 99,5gl believe you call there PGA, just wet enough to stay moist.
    I took the refrigerator until it becomes ice, which took about two hours, led to room temperature and repeat three times, hoping that breaks the cell walls and helps the extraction of flavors.
    I turned up just above the tobacco level with PGA and let sleep in the refrigerator freezer.
    It seems that ums left home days temparatura environment, I do not remember! I have noticed on your computer if you think I'll open a topic here!
    I filtered the coffee percolator and smoke rest was dry and crumbly, not softened.
    In a water bath with the help of a hair dryer to halve the volume of liquid is left 15ml, I believe I used 15gr tobacco, was not too concerned with the measurement.

    5ml the net was to + or - 15ml PG other 5ml to VG gave another heated in a water bath to evaporate the alcohol and still let each stand in a glass topped with filter paper to evaporate the rest, after a while tried these did not taste any.

    The others 5ml mixed with about 10ml of VG and 5ml PG gave a drink and had a very light flavor, well below expectations, however very tasty, woody dry,
    When I was the second to bring the flavor comferir I noticed it was getting dizzy, and almost went into panic, but remembered when I went to London with a stopover by Spain at the airport and there was no smoking area so when I came after local entity prohibited from smoking to exit the subway in London, nearly two days without smoking, and lit a Dunhill cigarette according to the packet has 0.7 mg of nicotine, I was really dizzy although usually these stinky smoke 20 a day,
    Soon I recovered, I took the test taking another gulp softer, again dazed thought: Never more!

    The other day I woke up with the feeling that flavor was mild when exit through the nose, like a strong flavor inside my brain believe that due to chemical factories that purposely place for addicted people.

    After a while mixed with PG and VG today's game a few drops in already filled with other liquids tamque and gain a great flavor.

    Conclusion: It can be dangerous! and who says so net catches the flavor is wrong, get nicotine yes, and lots of it!

    I used Google Translator!
     
  13. Equality 7-2521

    Equality 7-2521 Moved On ECF Veteran

    Jan 29, 2013
    oakland ca.
    although I find your experiments really interesting and even illuminating I wonder if you could tell us how well if at all was the flavor especially compar to conventional NETs....I am as interersted in extracting flavor,as I am in your extraction of "goodies" that satisfy your cravoings for smoking.
     
  14. Equality 7-2521

    Equality 7-2521 Moved On ECF Veteran

    Jan 29, 2013
    oakland ca.
    Ive seen a very similar process but instead of Iso, they used butane BHO extraction then purified with PGA.
     
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