Important Information: Reviewers and Pulse Width Modulation mods
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I was a electronic tech back in the day and every time I would see reviews on these devices, I would wonder why reviewers weren't referring to the RMS. You don't have to be a engineer, but I guess some electronic background is helpful.
Rader2146, are you stationed at 29 Palms? I did my 2841 tech school there.
Rader2146, are you stationed at 29 Palms? I did my 2841 tech school there.
I think there was a borked feedback loop going here. China saw what the reviewers were looking for and gave it to them. Now that they are looking at something different things will change again. I'd like to see them filter the voltage so a scope isn't needed.
Don't buy Chinese then you will be safe. Just another reason to get a ProVari.
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Skelley, I'm just down the hill from the C&E School at 1st Tank BN.
OK, where's the hate button? <-- and it's OK.... I used a comma. Apostrophies/contractions too.
And remember they hide gremlins in some of those Chinese
mods.
Remember not to feed them after midnight
All in good fun.
I'm probably that last person that should be saying anything though. I'll freely admit to playing role of the Pot. Just thought it was a funny pic that fit the situation.
Back to the grind....VAPNJ350 told me in the ZMax thread that after his beta review, he recommended to Smoketech to implement a filter to provide accurate DC voltage. He said that they didn't agree. I think with enough voice on the subject, Smoketech and others might start to give the consumers what they want.
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cmon guys, internet experts are making more assumptions based on little knowledge, i keep cringing when i read posts, thats how this whole thing went wrong in the first place because inexperience won and now we get burnt cartos.
it costs a manufacturer zero extra to make a device put out rms instead of average, its change a few lines of code. you might have to calculate a square root, thats it. you can use a look up table, its simple math.
manufacturers of regulators are not involved. the hardware does not change.
what the provari and darwin does does not get called PWM .. a PWM device filters the signal in the load, they are switch mode buck boost devices. they use PWM, they are not technically called it. what a provari puts out is DC, its not been filtered, its been converted.
filtering the output of a device does not turn Vave into Vrms, the Vrms will remain the same before and after filtering, the Vave will change but it will still be the wrong voltage. you can't add a $2 filter to something and make it correct.
changing a mod to output rms instead of average based on its display, will change the power at a certain number but it does not change what the mod is capable of, so a vmax going from 3v to 6v rms would feel just like a provari going from 3 to 6, current 6v vmax vapers will mix out on the top .. easy fix, go to 6.6v then no one misses out.
i feel its important for all mods with a display to actually output 3v when set to 3v, a PWM mod is going to read low on a multimeter, eg it will read 2.1v instead of 3. but .. it will then vape the same as a provari at 3. that is important. its the multimeters that are wrong, people just need to get used to that and the problem we currently have will simply go away.
it costs a manufacturer zero extra to make a device put out rms instead of average, its change a few lines of code. you might have to calculate a square root, thats it. you can use a look up table, its simple math.
manufacturers of regulators are not involved. the hardware does not change.
what the provari and darwin does does not get called PWM .. a PWM device filters the signal in the load, they are switch mode buck boost devices. they use PWM, they are not technically called it. what a provari puts out is DC, its not been filtered, its been converted.
filtering the output of a device does not turn Vave into Vrms, the Vrms will remain the same before and after filtering, the Vave will change but it will still be the wrong voltage. you can't add a $2 filter to something and make it correct.
changing a mod to output rms instead of average based on its display, will change the power at a certain number but it does not change what the mod is capable of, so a vmax going from 3v to 6v rms would feel just like a provari going from 3 to 6, current 6v vmax vapers will mix out on the top .. easy fix, go to 6.6v then no one misses out.
i feel its important for all mods with a display to actually output 3v when set to 3v, a PWM mod is going to read low on a multimeter, eg it will read 2.1v instead of 3. but .. it will then vape the same as a provari at 3. that is important. its the multimeters that are wrong, people just need to get used to that and the problem we currently have will simply go away.
there is no need to filter it, there is no need to measure it. it just needs to be correct.
its an ecig, at the end of the day it evaporates liquid, adding cost and filtering it to make it so you don't need a scope is ridiculous.
cartos don't care if it is filtered. if you want to get all technical on it, you need a true rms meter or a scope.
if you don't have one .. then just vape the thing and enjoy it, a carto calculates rms for you precisely in the amount of vapour that comes out the end.
OK. I grant you (as someone who has programmed PWM into microcontrollers) that the voltage regs in some e-cigs are not classified as PWM technically. And you're correct about the lookup table and/or calc to vary the duty cycle. However, I read here (maybe it was wrong) that the Darwin/Provari used PWM. Meh.
Bottom line is that it is a setting calibration issue. And exists on all vv e-cigs regarless of voltage regulation method. That's why I don't want to single out PWM vs other. It's really a review issue of "does this e-cig output X.X volts when set to X.X volts?". Not PWM vs buck/boost vs adjustable switching regs vs adjustable linear regs vs other.
The thing the OP was getting at is that it's hard to measure unless you have the proper equipment. And I give him credit for making the point. Also... I'm still threatening to make that color coded e-cig where you just adjust it till you like it and remember the color. No numbers to mess you up. Start at blue and move toward orange/yellow/white.
So I give credit to the OP about the issue of "How do you review it?" and continuing to raise awareness that the meters may or may not give accurate voltage readings under load. You have to know if your meter is doing a true RMS calc. Most good ones do as I understand it.
Bottom line is that it is a setting calibration issue. And exists on all vv e-cigs regarless of voltage regulation method. That's why I don't want to single out PWM vs other. It's really a review issue of "does this e-cig output X.X volts when set to X.X volts?". Not PWM vs buck/boost vs adjustable switching regs vs adjustable linear regs vs other.
The thing the OP was getting at is that it's hard to measure unless you have the proper equipment. And I give him credit for making the point. Also... I'm still threatening to make that color coded e-cig where you just adjust it till you like it and remember the color. No numbers to mess you up. Start at blue and move toward orange/yellow/white.
So I give credit to the OP about the issue of "How do you review it?" and continuing to raise awareness that the meters may or may not give accurate voltage readings under load. You have to know if your meter is doing a true RMS calc. Most good ones do as I understand it.
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Wouldn't that be a buzz pro Attypops?
The color coding
IDK. Never saw one. The color coding in my example goes back a couple of years (see my original entry in the modder's section). Although a "sliding scale as a color gradient" is not uncommon. Meh. Guess I should have patented it.
Besides... I think I'm going to change it. Now it's a minus, a line, and a plus. Or maybe "min/max" with a line in between.
"- _____________ +"
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Regarding PVs v/atomizing devices: should'nt we be talking BTUs instead of volts, watts, whatever?
Watts that? Effective heat delivered? Nahh. Besides...what will we use when the ultra-sonic atties come out? Sound waves break juice up into a mist. So then we have to debate decibels or something.
BTUs use time as well, so you get more BTU the longer you hold the button down.
battery Wh probably directly converts to BTU's taking into account mod efficiency.
interesting thought .. but way to complicate the issue
watts is perfectly useable..
battery Wh probably directly converts to BTU's taking into account mod efficiency.
interesting thought .. but way to complicate the issue
watts is perfectly useable..
i was driving near 29 Palms one day a few years ago at 130+ MPH when a space shuttle was landing near China Lake. A flat black Black Hawk followed me along the highway. Not even the windows were reflective.
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