Important Information: Reviewers and Pulse Width Modulation mods

[pmos69]

sense Field" data-source="post: 7254006" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

I was speaking about the scopes that we generally use. The DSO Nano scopes.

The DSO Nano Quad, for example, calculates Vrms correctly, I can assure you, as one of its firmware developers (open source community version). As a vaper, I took special interest in that.
Anyway, the DSO nano is not exactly a meaningful representative of digital oscilloscopes.

PS: I still think you did a good thing in talking about these things, and I thank you.
It's just that, since you are "fixing" some wrong perceptions, you might as well be as correct as possible.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Sense Field]

The DSO Nano Quad, for example, calculates Vrms correctly, I can assure you, as one of its firmware developers (open source community version). As a vaper, I took special interest in that.
Anyway, the DSO nano is not exactly a meaningful representative of digital oscilloscopes.

PS: I still think you did a good thing in talking about these things, and I thank you.
It's just that, since you are "fixing" some wrong perceptions, you might as well be as correct as possible.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk 2

Ok, so the quad calculates it correctly. How about the Nano V1 and Nano V2? If not, is there a reason why it doesn't?

 

[mostapha]

steeljan commented that her version gave really crappy measurements with the stock firmware but that a good hobbyist firmware cleaned it up. idk which version she had or what the differences are…looked identical to pbusardo's unit.

 

[pmos69]

sense Field" data-source="post: 7255253" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

Ok, so the quad calculates it correctly. How about the Nano V1 and Nano V2? If not, is there a reason why it doesn't?

Ah, you see, the nano v1 and v2 (well, the quad also) are not exactly examples of precision, and small miss-calibrations and impressions , can result in larger errors in the calculation of Vrms due to its nature (the mean of the square values).
I haven't looked at the code of the nano v1/2 in a long time, but on the nano quad, the official firmware had some "quirks" calculating not just Vrms but also other indirect values (Vpp, max and minimum values, etc).
I was under the impression that, on the base nanos, benF's firmware didn't have these issues, but since I don't own a v1/2, I never actually developed for them.
On the quad I can tell you the calculation follows the RMS definition to the letter, taking into account that the device has ADCs with limited precision (only 8 bits plus scaling and offsets).
Anyway, though I actually sometimes use my quad for less critical stuff (such as measuring vaping gear), one has to be aware that all these are basically "toys", with many issues - basically good to use in training or things were precision isn't an issue . When even moderately accurate values are needed, I have to use more "serious" equipment. Of course, both a decent digital oscilloscope or a "true RMS" voltmeter are not exactly cheap, although they can be a lot of fun :/

...and now this got way off-topic.
Sorry about that.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk 2

 

[synthros]

I'm just an amateur, following this thread with interest. But it certainly seems like that's on-topic to me.....

 

[Sense Field]

Hey Guys!

So we're going to be talking about this tonight on the first episode of VapeLink. If all goes well (on the tech side) we'll also be bringing the creator of the ECD meter on to talk a bit about the meter.

We start at 9:30 Eastern tonight (and every Monday) at VapeLink.com

 

[Stonemull]

its spot on .. on topic.
you are just entering into the reasons why the reviewers have not been comfortable using rms.
I have larger CRO's .. about 5 of them, but a nano has been on my shopping list for ages. always out of stock when I look

raider: do you really think that mods should be made to all pwm mods just so it can be checked with a multimeter .. thats crazy talk man !
its never going to happen and nor should it. if you really eant to be that .... about making sure its right, then beg, borrow a steal an iscilloscope ONCE and check the thing.
then go back to vaping it and ignore the freaking numbers. they mean nothing.
The only reason this was an issue for me, i can't use a vmax on an ego C atty .. it does not go low enough and burns it, so I broached the subject of rms again as I want useable devices that conform to a standard in future. that standard has existed for a century or so .. it is rms is the ONLY way to measure a varying voltage correctly. every other voltage is wrong.

I wonder if people are also aware that since Vaverage depends on the Vpeak, that even as a battery reduces, Any device regulating to a fixed Vaverage will change power in the atty as the battery flattens. So a Vaverage mod does not even stay at a fixed power into a load.

 

[Butters78]

Will baba boey be part of the show?

 

[Rader2146]

[snip]

raider: do you really think that mods should be made to all pwm mods just so it can be checked with a multimeter .. thats crazy talk man !
its never going to happen and nor should it. if you really eant to be that .... about making sure its right, then beg, borrow a steal an iscilloscope ONCE and check the thing.
then go back to vaping it and ignore the freaking numbers. they mean nothing.
The only reason this was an issue for me, i can't use a vmax on an ego C atty .. it does not go low enough and burns it, so I broached the subject of rms again as I want useable devices that conform to a standard in future. that standard has existed for a century or so .. it is rms is the ONLY way to measure a varying voltage correctly. every other voltage is wrong.

No more crazy than asking for them to calibrate the display to Vrms. I have access to a scope, I vape a "PWM" mod, and I don't care about the number on the display. You could even say that I don't even have a dog in this race, because I happily vape a 100hZ square wave all day long without complaint.

However, we want the same thing (see bold above). We just have a different opinion of what the standard should be. I think that everyone should be able to test, measure, diagnose, troubleshoot, ect., with common tools. Your standard limits accurate measurement to specialized tools, one of which you just so happen to make (conflict of interest? ).

With that being said, I fear that this thread is becoming an under-the-table promotion for the ECDMeter behind the facade of a call to action. Too many plugs and indirect references ("I'm the Cole from the video", "bringing the creator of the ECD meter on to talk a bit about the meter."). Why else would an unbias mind want to restrict the average user from being able to test and measure thier equipment. Just calling it as I see it.

Carry on....I'm outta here.

 

[nebulas]

Hey Guys!

So we're going to be talking about this tonight on the first episode of VapeLink. If all goes well (on the tech side) we'll also be bringing the creator of the ECD meter on to talk a bit about the meter.

We start at 9:30 Eastern tonight (and every Monday) at VapeLink.com

I am too late! Is there a rerun, podcast, youtube, or some other way I can see the talk?

 

[Sense Field]

I am too late! Is there a rerun, podcast, youtube, or some other way I can see the talk?

Hey buddy,

Me, Basil and Coz will all post the full show on our YouTube channels. At some point it will be on the iTunes podcast app also.

 

[Sense Field]

Hey guys,

Looks like Russ did a little segment on the ECD over at www.vapersplace.com/VPLive

And VapeTeam is doing a segment tonight at 9:30 eastern over at www.VapeTeam.com

 

[6pointprime]

Hey guys,

Looks like Russ did a little segment on the ECD over at Listen Live – VP Radio Live

And VapeTeam is doing a segment tonight at 9:30 eastern over at Watch Live – Vape Team Live

Thanks much SF, here are the links to the replay of my segment:

The VapeBrain ECDmeter - Why This Will Change Everything by VP Live on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

iTunes - Podcasts - VP Live by VP Live

I'm really looking forward to the VapeTeam segment tonight. Jamie has my ECDmeter hooked up to his computer over RS232 and he is going over readings from several PWM devices...should be very interesting.