In your own opinion rda

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Oberon75

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At 130W???Holy hell!!!! I'm running 14 wrap dual 24G N80's at 1/4" ID in my velocity and anything over 85W is hot lava in my throat! Lol!
While i cant find a tool to calculate N90, I did just calculate a 14 wrap build with N80 at 130w. The heat flux reads at 216 mW/mm² which is very good. Perhaps the Velocity just cant handle those higher watts. I dont know. Never used one.

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Oberon75

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I'll never buy an authentic rda. If you're rich, and have nothing better to do then sure giver. I work my ... off. And I ain't spending 120$ on an rda, when I can get the same thing for 25$ from tobeco.

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I do not support clones because doing so hinders innovation. It also gets people screwed over in the buy/sell groups who wind up with a clone that they thought was going to be authentic.

You don't have to spend $120 to get a good atty. Alliance, Buddah, Temple, Twisted Messes and Mutation X are all very good attys at reasonable prices.

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VaporDaze

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I'll never buy an authentic rda. If you're rich, and have nothing better to do then sure giver. I work my ... off. And I ain't spending 120$ on an rda, when I can get the same thing for 25$ from tobeco.

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It has nothing to do with being rich and having nothing better to do...I also work my ... off and would much rather pay the real people than the ones that rip off their product. Sure you can get one SIMILAR to the authentic for $25 but it's not the same. I myself prefer to buy authentics, doesn't mean I'm rich, just means I'd rather have good quality gear that will last rather than something that may or may not. No need to judge people on what they buy, I earned the money and I will spend it how I please.
 

Randy Smith

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I'm not judging. At all. I was just simply saying why buy authentic most people but clones. It's a better deal. Tobeco clones are amazing. And the authentic producers are obviously getting good money, so the clones don't seem to affect them much considering how many people really do vape.

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Hightech Redneck

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I agree that I will buy authentics if they are reasonable. There are many authentics out there for 50 or less, but I have a family to support and also work it seems all the time. So I have a hard time spending over 100 for an rda that I can get a quality clone for 1/4 the cost. From the other perspective I will support those bringing innovative changes as much as I can. To each his own.
 

Oberon75

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I agree that I will buy authentics if they are reasonable. There are many authentics out there for 50 or less, but I have a family to support and also work it seems all the time. So I have a hard time spending over 100 for an rda that I can get a quality clone for 1/4 the cost. From the other perspective I will support those bringing innovative changes as much as I can. To each his own.
Considering there are so many quality authentics at affordable prices, I opt out of buying the expensive authentic or the clone. I would rather give my money to companies who deserve it. Velocity? Who needs it? The Temple has a similar deck and is way better at half the price.

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VHRB2014

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Ya, I really like the looks of the newest land cruiser model. But who can afford it, LOL. I guess I`ll have to settle for my 85 Runner with 5.29`s, 35`s, automatic, and dual lockers.

But hey, if you like the smell of leather, go for it. But its a b$tch when it gets soaked wet.

See you on Jack Hammer Trail. LOL.
 
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addappt

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I do not support clones because doing so hinders innovation. It also gets people screwed over in the buy/sell groups who wind up with a clone that they thought was going to be authentic.

You don't have to spend $120 to get a good atty. Alliance, Buddah, Temple, Twisted Messes and Mutation X are all very good attys at reasonable prices.

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I think it drives innovation.
 

Oberon75

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I think it drives innovation.
How does it drive innovation if more people are buying a knockoff than either the real deal or a cheaper authentic? Do you realize that this is the only industry where people praise counterfeiting?

And keep in mind that many counterfeiters have ties to terrorism, drugs and human trafficking. Cloned goods from Asian countries help fund these things.

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addappt

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How does it drive innovation if more people are buying a knockoff than either the real deal or a cheaper authentic? Do you realize that this is the only industry where people praise counterfeiting?

And keep in mind that many counterfeiters have ties to terrorism, drugs and human trafficking. Cloned goods from Asian countries help fund these things.

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Because it drives innovation of new products that no one else has for a point of difference. It's very easy for a company to become complacent because they have a few good products that sell consistently. Cloning forces these companies to keep innovating to stay ahead of the curve.
 

Oberon75

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Because it drives innovation of new products that no one else has for a point of difference. It's very easy for a company to become complacent because they have a few good products that sell consistently. Cloning forces these companies to keep innovating to stay ahead of the curve.
No. New and competitive products drive innovation and lower price because they can push a bigger volume. Clones have just created a mass market of people who refuse to buy authentic just because they can get the clone cheaper.

When most shops either wont stock authentics or only do so in very limited amounts while still having a 90%+ clone inventory, thats a serious problem.

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JMarca

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No. New and competitive products drive innovation and lower price because they can push a bigger volume. Clones have just created a mass market of people who refuse to buy authentic just because they can get the clone cheaper.

When most shops either wont stock authentics or only do so in very limited amounts while still having a 90%+ clone inventory, thats a serious problem.

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We had a 200+ page discussion about this issue back in 2013, the people who buy clones will never buy the authentics at that price. Also the authentic market and it's limited supply run would alienate alot of people from ever experiencing that kind of vape at all. There is definitely room for both in the market and I've seen cases of clones improving upon authentics.

Mind you I have and will continue to pay for quality authentics when and if it's deserved, just slapping a logo on your mod and putting it in a pretty box is not enough.
 
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Oberon75

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We had a 200+ page discussion about this issue back in 2013, the people who buy clones will never buy the authentics at that price. Also the authentic market and it's limited supply run would alienate alot of people from ever experiencing that kind of vape at all. There is definitely room for both in the market and I've seen cases of clones improving upon authentics.

Mind you I have and will continue to pay for quality authentics when and if it's deserved, just slapping a logo on your mod and putting it in a pretty box is not enough.
The difference between 2013 and 2015 is, most Authentics now days aren't a limited run. Nor do they cost $100+ One common misconception that I always see on ECF is that the industry standards for vaping seemed to be established back in 2013.

The RDA market today isn't much different than the tank market. When it comes to tanks though, everybody is buying name brand which isn't oversaturated with clones like the RDA market.



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JMarca

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The difference between 2013 and 2015 is, most Authentics now days aren't a limited run. Nor do they cost $100+ One common misconception that I always see on ECF is that the industry standards for vaping seemed to be established back in 2013.

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Yes but most of the authentics you find today are of the same quality as chinese clones, because they were made in China. In fact these days there is more innovation coming from China than anywhere else, look at SubOhm tanks, from the first Subtank to something like the new OBS Crius. I saw all the authentics you mentioned in this post and honestly they're not that unique or innovative in terms of engineering. Look at the Temple for example... you took the velocity deck and put a new cap on it. That's not innovation at all!

The expensive authentics back then were all custom crafted in the US, the authenics you posts are all "designed" in the US (maybe) and mass-produced in China, so how exactly are we keeping it home? The reason those authentics back in 2010-2013 were so expensive and in limited supply was because they were made here in the US designed and crafted. There are still a few vendors who take the hit and still produce here people like Zen, Rio and Provape but as you see it's not cheap.
 

Oberon75

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Yes but most of the authentics you find today are of the same quality as chinese clones, because they were made in China. In fact these days there is more innovation coming from China than anywhere else, look at SubOhm tanks, from the first Subtank to something like the new OBS Crius. I saw all the authentics you mentioned in this post and honestly they're not that unique or innovative in terms of engineering. Look at the Temple for example... you took the velocity deck and put a new cap on it. That's not innovation at all!

The expensive authentics back then were all custom crafted in the US, the authenics you posts are all "designed" in the US (maybe) and mass-produced in China, so how exactly are we keeping it home? The reason those authentics back in 2010-2013 were so expensive and in limited supply was because they were made here in the US designed and crafted. There are still a few vendors who take the hit and still produce here people like Zen, Rio and Provape but as you see it's not cheap.
But at least the maker of the Temple took an idea from the Velocity and improved it without flat out ripping it off. Just because they used the post design, it doesn't make it the same atty nor do they perform the same.

Isn't it sad though that the Velocity is at the top of the Best of 2015 poll in the website, Guide to Vaping. Even though the vast majority own a clone and have never even tried much cheaper and more widely available authentics. Even though they are just as good if not better. And even though the Temple can be had for $40 to $60, most people are still buying the clone. But why arent they buying a clone of the Crown or TFV4? Thats right. Because Tobeco made their own Supertank instead of making a clone of a tank.



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