Indy at it again, e-cigs added to definition of smoking in prop 136

[capt.n.coke]

They're back... Prop 136 is much like the last attempt. I'm still reading the details here but the use of an ecig is added to the definition of smoking at minimum.

http://www.indy.gov/eGov/Council/Proposals/Documents/2012/PROP12-136.pdf

-C

 

[Hoosier]

Wow, not only is that a pile of steaming bull crud, but it reminds me of reading government issued construction bid contracts.

I hate having to read government issued construction bid contracts...

 

[BoiseMike]

Another fine example of why compromise with the ANTZ should never be an option. They take what they can get and then come back for more. They won't be happy until no one else is.

 

[Bill Godshall]

The new proposal would exempt some private clubs (although private clubs may oppose it because it only applies to clubs that have a 501(c)3, which most don't, and it requires them to notify the county by April 1, 2012 that they're governing board or membership has voted to allow smoking), as the Mayor vetoed that last proposal because it didn't exempt private clubs.

The key argument against this proposal is that it would ban e-cigarette use in several hundred thousand public places in Marion County and ban smoking in just several hundred.

 

[BoiseMike]

The key argument against this proposal is that it would ban e-cigarette use in several hundred thousand public places in Marion County and ban smoking in just several hundred.

I think that's because the other several hundred thousand places that aren't included in this proposal regarding smoking are already included in the ban. Now they're expanding the scope of their smoking bans and lumping in the PVs. So yes, the new proposal affects PVs more than smoking. But that's only because they had already stuck it to the smokers, during some sort of "compromise" probably. Then they come back later and go after those that compromised with them because their target is much smaller. Divide and conquer.

 

[capt.n.coke]

On the last proposal the council brought up the "enforcement issue." So what is the general stance to combat the enforcement issue argument? "Analogs don't have purple lights?" "You can smell an analog?" (I would not say "analog" in actual correspondence, but you get the idea)

 

[capt.n.coke]

Prop 136 was sent to the Rules and Public Policy committee who's next meeting is this coming Tuesday, 4/3 at 5:30 PM. Their agenda is not posted yet to see if Prop 136 is on it. Live and archived video is here: Channel 16 Home Page

 

[JD4x4]

My church of What's Happenin Now extensively uses the incense from zero-nic e-liquid in our quad-hourly homage to our freedom god rituals.

 

[kristin]

There is a council member who will be proposing excluding e-cigarettes and HE asks that vapers show up to speak! If you can make it but need help preparing, please know that CASAA is here to help! NOTHING makes a bigger difference in whether these things go our way or not than having vapers and e-cigarette retailers SHOW UP! Contact us at board@casaa.org. So far, we haven't heard from ANYONE in Indiana - so don't assume someone else is stepping up for you!

 

[capt.n.coke]

I'll be there. And per an email I'm now all by my lonesome. I posted in the Hoosier Vapers sub-forum as well; although most of the folks in there are not in Marion county.

 

[Placebo Effect]

Thank you for attending

 

[Brew1961]

I'm trying to juggle schedules but am unsure If I'll be able to make it. I have calls out to other's in the area but not sure who might show. I'll keep trying. I'm not a marion county resident so am not sure if working in marion county might still carry weight for voicing my opinion. Brew

 

[DC2]

I think it should be mandatory to join CASAA before being allowed to join this forum.

Or at the very least, you should have to check a box that says you know what CASAA is and have visited their website.
Even if you're lying when you check that box, you already have heard of CASAA before you even start.

And yes, I'm mostly kidding.
Maybe.

 

[Brew1961]

I have joined and donated in 2011. It's got to be getting close to my anniversary date and I'll do it again. However, to many this fight is not that personal but for the true converts it's a matter of life and death. Brew

 

[kristin]

Brew - YES, working in Marion County absolutely counts as this affects you whenever you are at work!

I hope you can make it and let us know if you need any help. So far, we have heard from 2 (possibly 3) who plan to attend, so you will not be alone!

Thank you to capt.n.coke for stepping up, too!

 

[DC2]

Usually we go into these things with no allies, but in this case we already have an ally waiting to help us.
And all he asks is that we help him to help us to help ourselves.

 

[Brew1961]

It went terribly! Three of us spoke with concise points, although my voice quivered throughout , and all three of us attempted to be very polite but the amendment to remove E-cigarettes from the proposal was voted down. I had issues to resolve and needed to leave shortly thereafter but it was obvious that SmokeFree Indiana has built a base on the City Council and they beat us over the head with the BS FDA findings. I told them that I knew that reams of information countering the FDA findings had been sent but in the end Councilwoman Mansfield and her posse won the vote. It appeared to be about 8 or 10 to maybe 5.

 

[DC2]

I'd like that councilwoman's phone number, but it is probably best that I don't have it.

 

[capt.n.coke]

I stayed until the end, and as Brew1961 said, they pretty much beat us over the head with the FDA study and the exploding mod from FL.

What I found most shocking though, was that a few of the councilors made statements like, "Well, I did some research today and found..." Really? You googled a few things today and will make a public policy decision based on that? I've been studying the science of vaping and THR in general for about 10 months, and wouldn't even come close to saying I'm an expert on the subject, let alone make public policy based upon such a limited understanding of the material. I'm shocked and appalled! (have you seen that comedy skit? anyway...)

In the end it came down to councilors McQuillen and Lutz who voted no against everyone else. Lutz spoke up three times about a level playing field for bar owners (meaning the other cities in/near marion county not in their jurisdiction) and McQuillen was just a solid No. So we lost.

My hat goes off to Mr. McQuillen, who spoke up to give us a chance to speak on the amendment to remove e-cigs from the definition of smoking at all, who voted no on this proposal, and who throughout the smoking ban debates that I have seen, always had an open mind. Remind to donate to his campaign and move to his district.

Thank you Elaine, Gregory, Kristin, and anyone else at CASAA that I missed for your guidance. I tried.

Now to go watch myself on IndyGov channel 16 just because it's awesome to see yourself on TV!

-C

 

[Brew1961]

Actually watching myself stammer was painful. I really don't ever want to do that again but you know I probably would if needed. Giving a reporter a story is no big deal but seeing those 4 cameras really sent me over the edge. My wife gave me a hug while watching it as I never have trouble speaking to a familiar crowd. Oh well, I couldn't let the vapers in Indy down even if some of the people I called wouldn't commit. Thanks big time for being there capt.n.coke & James, It made it a little better even if it was painful. I ran from the parking lot, got through security and then ran the stairs to just make the meeting. I barely caught my breath prior to being called to action but a year ago I wouldn't have been able to speak for another 30 minutes. Now I'm gonna sit back and enjoy my Capt.n.DietCoke Brew

I stayed until the end, and as Brew1961 said, they pretty much beat us over the head with the FDA study and the exploding mod from FL.

What I found most shocking though, was that a few of the councilors made statements like, "Well, I did some research today and found..." Really? You googled a few things today and will make a public policy decision based on that? I've been studying the science of vaping and THR in general for about 10 months, and wouldn't even come close to saying I'm an expert on the subject, let alone make public policy based upon such a limited understanding of the material. I'm shocked and appalled! (have you seen that comedy skit? anyway...)

In the end it came down to councilors McQuillen and Lutz who voted no against everyone else. Lutz spoke up three times about a level playing field for bar owners (meaning the other cities in/near marion county not in their jurisdiction) and McQuillen was just a solid No. So we lost.

My hat goes off to Mr. McQuillen, who spoke up to give us a chance to speak on the amendment to remove e-cigs from the definition of smoking at all, who voted no on this proposal, and who throughout the smoking ban debates that I have seen, always had an open mind. Remind to donate to his campaign and move to his district.

Thank you Elaine, Gregory, Kristin, and anyone else at CASAA that I missed for your guidance. I tried.

Now to go watch myself on IndyGov channel 16 just because it's awesome to see yourself on TV!

-C