Interested in starting mixing my own juice, but having trouble finding some information...

[ddirtyvapes]

Hey all, recently I made a post in the General E-cig Discussion board about how vaping has really lost some of its appeal for me. I have been using a PV for almost two years now, and for a while I was only smoking about 1 analog every 4-5 weeks (before getting on a plane!) but recently that number has gone up again, and it's partially because I'm not enjoying vaping as much as I once did. I've never tried DIY, but I've always loved cooking, baking, and more recently in life, bartending. I know I would have a great time mixing my own juice once I got the hang of it. However, I want to make sure that if I do decide to try making my own e-liquid that I'm 1) getting all the various tools and ingredients I need to do it properly and 2) more importantly, doing everything I can to ensure my safety. I have done a lot of reading on here and have looked at most of the stickies and some random threads, but I'm still a little lost so I thought I'd just ask some questions.

I think the most important question I have is, what are some things a new DIYer has to be aware of in terms of safety that go beyond common sense? By "common sense," I mean that I know gloves should be worn. I would never make a juice without using one of the various juice calculators, as I'm pretty bad at math. I understand buying only USP grade PG/VG, and not using pure nicotine. I don't even think I'd ever measure using drops; I'd probably almost always use a syringe for exact amounts. What other safety measures do I need to be aware of? I understand certain flavorings that are safe to eat are not safe to inhale... is there a complete list somewhere? Should goggles be worn? I can't really think of many more very specific questions, but basically anything you can think of that you've learned about keeping safe would be really appreciated, even if it's just a link to something I might have missed.

The only other question I have (for now) is what you all feel like is a good amount of material to start with. I'm thinking I'd like to get enough that I have room to make flavoring (or other) mistakes and fool around with different combinations some, but not so much that if I decide that DIY isn't for me that I've wasted a whole lot of money. I know that's going to be a bit of a personal decision and the cost will be slightly dependent on where I purchase items from, but I'm just looking for some guidance. So, how much nicotine liquid, how much PG/VG, flavorings, tools/accessories (pipettes, syringes, bottles, etc.), and anything else I might need would more experienced juice mixers recommend?

Any information you could give me would be awesome. I'm trying hard to rekindle the fun I used to have vaping and I think this is one good way to do it (not to mention the eventual money I'll save over buying ONLY pre-made juices, although I could never give up BluSpot ).

Thanks a lot in advance.

 

[myxomatosis]

Goggles and gloves are unnecessary unless you're dealing with 100mg nic. If you have common sense and the right syringes you shouldn't spill anything anywhere in a quantity that could be harmful. If you're clumsy, maybe I'd consider it, but even then idk.. I guess it's OK to be over-cautious.

There's a lot of trial/error stuff going on with DIY, but it's not nearly as intimidating as most people think. Get comfortable with a calculator (eJuice Me Up is excellent) buy some nic, vg, pg and a plethora of flavors, research a little, and then get your feet wet.

A couple recommendations:

Order from vendors that carry multiple brands of flavoring to save on shipping, like highdesertvapes.com. While you're there pick up some luer lock syringes - which are excellent managing your VG. Normal syringes will work but THAT can be messy.

Pick up some extra bottles, preferably glass if you can swing it. If not, plastic is fine getting started.

Don't take everyone's word on everything all the time. A lot of people have limited experience with things and it weighs into their reviews/judgements. Some vendors and flavors you'll have to try for yourself because, as everyone knows: "taste is subjective".

 

[myxomatosis]

Another thing quickly: In my experience, over complicating a recipe more often than not leads to bad juice. In some instances it works, but making a juice "suicide" is definitely NOT recommended. It's not uncommon at all for me to use only 2-3 flavors in a blend.

 

[graffinfected]

I would be glad to help... first comes safety..

yes, wear gloves of course.. goggles are your decision. i once was asking my sister to smell a juice i made and when i squeezed the bottle a little for her to smell the aroma it squirted out a little juice that had remained on the tip of the bottle after i had shook it up.. it wasent pretty but she is fine.. the thing is that this can happen to you.. you never know. Make sure that you have a nice clean area to mix in. You dont want to accidentally spill some nicotine on the table and then have your kids or dog come by and sample it.. like you said.. "common sense" be careful.. and the safety is all set up and your ready to start mixing .. it can be alot of fun, and i can almost assure you, you WILL enjoy vaping again. Nicotine is a safety issue when mixing.. and we will get into that now.

things you will need:

- Nicotine
- PG
- VG
- Flavoring
- Bottles
- Syringes and/or pipettes, droppers, needles etc.. (in your case Syringes and needles)
for the needles you will need 14g for VG and your choice between 16g and 18g needle sizes for your PG and Flavors.
- Graduated Cylinders ( if you want them for making sure you getting the right measurements.)

OK, lets start with Nicotine:

I use 100mg PG nicotine because I feel like it lasts me alot longer than buying it at other mg's and because if i decide i want to make my nicotine stronger i can. But you can also buy the nicotine in different mg's (12mg, 18mg, 24mg 36mg, 48mg, 60mg, and 100mg). So for example you don't want to be messing around with 100mg nicotine so you buy a bottle of 48mg nicotine solution, ok, so using the E JUICE ME UP calculator found here eJuice Me Up - Best eJuice Calculator, you can lower the nicotine to 18mg or even 5mg's. its all up to you. You can buy your nic mixed with PG or VG or even both.. thats another preference thats all up to you and what you like from your previous juice encounters. Im sure you know what you like. Just make sure you get a small amount at first to make sure your not throwing away any money if you decide this is not for you.

You need to have some PG and VG on hand for making your juice.. get some. again, If i were you i would get a small amount at first so you don't waste any money if you decide that DIY is not for you.

You will need bottles, sense this is your first time.. get some small bottles so you can try a bunch of stuff (you might go a little crazy sense you have that background of bar tending, baking and all that great stuff) and so that you dont spend extra money getting big bottles... that's for later on when you decide you WILL be doing this forever.. lol

NOW!! my favorite part... The FLavoring.....
listed here are some essentials (for me) that i use for my mixing.. and why i have it.

- Menthol (obvious reasons) i like menthol in my tobaccos sometimes and i also mix it with some fruit flavors.
- Acetyl Pyrazine --> this has a bread note to it, cereal, kinda like wheat, bread crumbs and nutty.. you get my drift.
- Koolada ---> this gives you a nice cool feeling in your throat as you inhale your juice.
- Smooth ---> this smooths out your flavors to give it that "Body" that it needs .. good for rounding out a bunch of flavors you mixed together
- lemon juice (the little yellow bottle from the grocery store) this is for adding 1 or 2 drops into your fruit flavored mixes.. it gives it that "pow!" your looking for.
- Apple cider vinegar ---> this is for dessert mixes.. it does the same thing as the lemon juice above but for desserts.
- Ethyl Maltol or Cotton candy-----> for adding some sweetness to your vape.. you can buy them in crystals or in liquid form already same with the menthol above.
- Sour---> to make your juices a little more tart ..

the flavors you decide to get are allll up to you.. and you dont need ANY of the things i listed above in my essentials list in order to make your own juice.. it just helps me get more from my mixes.


you asked about some flavors that you shouldnt buy.. here is a list of things i know you should be vaping..

- custards (i.e. vanilla custard)

i know theres more to this list but you might have to check out other threads on it because im not too sure and i dont want to sound like a fool.

you can buy ALL of this stuff for some of the cheapest prices online here Wizard Labs

this is the spot your looking for. They also sell a nicotine testing kit yo might be interested in for making sure your using the right amount in your mixes.

if you have any other questions im sure we would be more than happy to help you out in your adventures.. this is fun..


oh! and one more thing.. i have a thread where i was looking for other flavorings from other companies to "try out" and so you should check that out because Wizard Labs only sells TFA , SM, and LOR flavorings in 8ml glass viles. which is perfect for you starting off anyways..

 

[ddirtyvapes]

Thanks to both of you, that's all incredibly helpful so far. I can't reply to everything point-by-point as I'm on my phone and Tapatalk, but let me address at least a few things right now.

First and foremost, what other sites do you know of that sell various flavors by different brands? I'll be sure to check out highdesertvapes.

I don't think I'd tend to overcomplicated recipes; I know from all the cooking and baking I do how difficult it can be to control and end up with a pleasant taste when there are many strong flavors present. When I said trying different combinations I was also talking about two or three different flavors.

I can tell by context what you meant, but would you mind clarifying what a "suicide" juice is? I imagine it's relatively self explanatory, but just want to make sure.

As for nicotine, no, I would never use 100mg nicotine only because I'd be too nervous. I normally vape 24mg when I buy from vendors; I assume it would be wise to get nicotine of a higher strength that I'd dilute. Do you think there's a big difference in terms of 48mg versus 60mg? I have no idea what that difference would be. I would probably get nicotine in one of those strengths, though, and lower it to around 24mg.

Noted on the bottles... I'll make sure to get tons. I probably will go crazy with my culinary background.

Do you think you could give me some advice on the actual amount I should get of each item, roughly? Especially the liquid items... how many mL of nicotine? How many mL of PG/VG? (I like blends, so I imagine I won't be making any 100% PG or VG juice.) Even if you could give me a ballpark idea, I simply have no clue.

Anyway, thanks a lot again to the both of you. All other replies are of course still welcome, especially if someone might know if there's a big list of things that aren't safe. Anyone is also free to answer any of the questions in this post, too, even though I kind of directed them at myxomatosis and graff. I am feeling a lot more comfortable already.

 

[CommaHolly]

REally, unless you want to do 100mg nic (which lots of people do) all you really need for safety is a couple things,,,,

long sleeves
rubber gloves (chemical resistant)
I wear glasses, so my eyes are somewhat protected,,,,you may want to wear goggles if you don't wear glasses,,,,,

paper towel
baby wipes (or a wet paper towel) for clean up

and make sure you work in a well lighted and well ventilated area,,,,,

I use syrynges and I don't even bother with the needles on them,,,,I just suck up the liquid with the syrynge,,,,,or with a pipette.


I use 60 mg nic, because I didn't want to deal with a spill of 100mg nic,,,,,,THAT can be very dangerous,,

I recommend starting with small batches (5 or 6 mg) of 5-10% flavoring (start with single flavors and you'll soon discover those you wish to mix) and you can go up or down from there,,,,

It's really easy peasy,,,,,,keep your gloves on until ALL the clean up is done,,,,,,,I bag up my gloves, paper towel and baby wipes and take them straight out to the trashcan, rather than have them hanging around the trash can for the dog to get,,,,,

and my nic base is always locked up high.

I think the most important thing is to clean up COMPLETELY after every mixing session, and toss those used items OUTSIDE in the trash can,,,,,,,,IMMEDIATELY.

Pipettes and syrynges get washed in hot soapy water while still wearing gloves,,,,,,

 

[ddirtyvapes]

Sorry for such a brief post, but is it unsafe to throw away gloves in my normal trash can if there are no pets or children who are ever around? The only kids I see regularly don't visit me; I visit them. In this case do I need to take it outside? I certainly CAN if I have to... Just asking. Otherwise, I get all of your safety tips.

 

[CommaHolly]

if it were just me with no dogs, I'd probably toss them into the trash can

 

[ddirtyvapes]

Thanks! I feel a little better then lol. Might you have any opinion on the questions in my previous post, like 48 vs 60mg juice and good starter amounts of everything? I'm trying to figure everything out so I can place an order ASAP; I'm ready to give it a shot!

 

[myxomatosis]

Thanks to both of you, that's all incredibly helpful so far. I can't reply to everything point-by-point as I'm on my phone and Tapatalk, but let me address at least a few things right now.

First and foremost, what other sites do you know of that sell various flavors by different brands? I'll be sure to check out highdesertvapes.

I don't think I'd tend to overcomplicated recipes; I know from all the cooking and baking I do how difficult it can be to control and end up with a pleasant taste when there are many strong flavors present. When I said trying different combinations I was also talking about two or three different flavors.

I can tell by context what you meant, but would you mind clarifying what a "suicide" juice is? I imagine it's relatively self explanatory, but just want to make sure.

As for nicotine, no, I would never use 100mg nicotine only because I'd be too nervous. I normally vape 24mg when I buy from vendors; I assume it would be wise to get nicotine of a higher strength that I'd dilute. Do you think there's a big difference in terms of 48mg versus 60mg? I have no idea what that difference would be. I would probably get nicotine in one of those strengths, though, and lower it to around 24mg.

Noted on the bottles... I'll make sure to get tons. I probably will go crazy with my culinary background.

Do you think you could give me some advice on the actual amount I should get of each item, roughly? Especially the liquid items... how many mL of nicotine? How many mL of PG/VG? (I like blends, so I imagine I won't be making any 100% PG or VG juice.) Even if you could give me a ballpark idea, I simply have no clue.

Anyway, thanks a lot again to the both of you. All other replies are of course still welcome, especially if someone might know if there's a big list of things that aren't safe. Anyone is also free to answer any of the questions in this post, too, even though I kind of directed them at myxomatosis and graff. I am feeling a lot more comfortable already.

I guess it's better to be more over-cautious than not, but the most important thing is safety handling the nicotine, everything else you could probably marinate your skin in and walk away fine. It's simple food flavoring. PG is sold in shampoos and lotions, and VG is actually marketed as "skin-protectant". That's not to say it's not important for your environment to be sterile. If there's dust or dirt in the air it's going into your juice blend.

Pick up the smallest quanity of VG and PG you can find, and a good variety of flavors that sound appetizing, and some syringes. As a matter of fact, I'd recommend just going to Wizard Labs RIGHT AWAY (like, right this instant before the Thanksgiving deals go away) and ordering AT LEAST one of everything they have on sale at the bottom of the page. That's a small amount of nicotine for sale that would be PERFECT for just getting started and figuring out if DIY is for you. I picked up the maximum allowable quantities yesterday myself. EDIT: NOT THE FEATURED CAROUSEL, right above it. Should be 4 items all under $2.

Couple those with: Propylene Glycol - 60ml

and

This: Vegetable Glycerin - 60ml

Then pick up some flavors that appeal to you from your vendor of choice. That might take a little researching since you know your tastes, but I mentioned highdesertvapes.com before - they carry several flavor suppliers there, and the prices seem reasonable. They also have those lock needles I recommend if you're planning on working with VG.

Good luck man.

 

[CommaHolly]

Thanks! I feel a little better then lol. Might you have any opinion on the questions in my previous post, like 48 vs 60mg juice and good starter amounts of everything? I'm trying to figure everything out so I can place an order ASAP; I'm ready to give it a shot!

Either one would do you well,,,,,,,,you'd get longer out of the 60mg, simply because you'd use less of it,,,,,,,,

I started with 120 ml of each,,,,,and several flavors,,,,it lasted me about a month (I have two vapers) except for the nic,,,,,,that has lasted another month without issue,,,,,

I just ordered more PG and VG, though,,,,,,got 500 ml this time,,,,,,,

my suggestion is 120 ml of each,,,,,,,,it's not way too much, easy to handle, should last at least a month or so,,,,,,,,,and you won't break the bank with it.

and get several flavors,,,,,,,,the tobaccos take a lot of steeping time, so if you are doing those, make sure you get something you can vape pretty quick,,,,,,,,like the fruits. They don't need steeping time, especially if they are single flavors.

 

[ddirtyvapes]

Does anyone think it's absolutely imperative to test the nicotine level after making a juice, so long as I'm using a calculator, measuring exact amounts, and getting the nic itself from a reputable site? I'm loving the prices on Wizard Labs and will probably just get all of my necessary items besides the flavoring from there, but to be honest I'm really not equipped to be testing anything with sulfuric acid (which appears to be one of the components of the test). Handling nicotine is one thing, but sulfuric acid is quite another IMO.

Thanks to the crazy low prices on Wizard Labs (or maybe I'm just used to buying premade juice??), I'm able to start right off with a fair amount of supplies. Even if I don't like DIY, I still wouldn't be throwing away all that much money. If I DO like it, I'm able to get enough to likely last a solid amount of time.

P.S.- Just out of curiosity, can you vape PG and/or VG straight to change flavors on an atty? I usually use Want2Vape's atty refresher, but I'm almost out, so it'd be nice to know if I can just use plain old PG to help neutralize the taste again.

 

[graffinfected]

i have never tried that method... maybe someone else can help you with that.. i usually just wash em out..(atty) and wait for them to dry a little to then dry burn and then switch to another flavor..

i only do this while im mixing, to see whats gonna work or not.

 

[myxomatosis]

Does anyone think it's absolutely imperative to test the nicotine level after making a juice, so long as I'm using a calculator, measuring exact amounts, and getting the nic itself from a reputable site?

I don't. I think most people don't. There are some that do. And there are some that have found their nicotine to be at a much higher concentration than what was supposed to be sold. I think it was a vendor oversight or mislabeling problem. I think it's the responsibility of the vendor personally - at least, I would assume it if I sold a potential fatal substance to the masses.

P.S.- Just out of curiosity, can you vape PG and/or VG straight to change flavors on an atty? I usually use Want2Vape's atty refresher, but I'm almost out, so it'd be nice to know if I can just use plain old PG to help neutralize the taste again.

For sure. I use straight VG. I can usually buy it locally (Humco @ Walmart) and the plumes of smoke are pretty. I've used PG too - they both will work.

 

[Racehorse]

FYI, there are vendors who don't even use nic over 36mg. because of danger to their employees. This is TRUTH. Several vendors actually write that on their site that I frequent.

Please practice accepted Hazmat precautions if you are dealing with anything stronger than 36mg concentrated nic.

From Wizard Labs site:

Minimum recommended Personal Protection for Nicotine solutions up to 50mg/ml include: Liquid/chemical resistant gloves, safety glasses or goggles, particle mask for nose and mouth.

Minimum recommended Personal Protection for Nicotine solutions from 50mg/ml up to 100mg/ml include: Liquid/chemical resistant gloves, safety glasses or goggles, particle mask for nose and mouth, liquid/chemical resistant sleeves or coverall.

Minimum recommended Personal Protection for Nicotine solutions above 100mg/ml include: Liquid/chemical resistant gloves, faceshield and head cover, organic vapor respirator, liquid/chemical resistant coveralls, liquid/chemical resistant shoe covers or boots.

Of course there are DIYers who don't do all thse things but they really should not be posting about it if they arent'.

If you are just starting out, you may want to just get the actual nic you are looking for, straight. Like you want to end up with 12mg maybe just get 18mg nic. More expensive at first, but why not make it EASY to begin with, since you will also be grappling w/learning to mix flavors.

Mix your stuff in vg/pg first w/out nic of course. don't want to use real nic juice for "mistakes". :O)

 

[MattBott]

I vape 18mg 50/50, so I started out with 120ml of 36mg nic in VG and 120ml PG. With this, I can cut my 36mg VG with PG and flavorings to hit my sweet spot. One less ingredient to buy, one less syringe to wash.

I feel safe much safer this way also. I did some calculations and found that getting 100mg nic would save me $0.01 per ml. Vaping 3ml per say, that's under $11 a year. Worth not having to deal with 100mg nic (note, I didn't take shipping into account and that I wouldn't have to replenish the nic as often).

 

[ddirtyvapes]

Just so you know what I decided to do about the nicotine, I thought it was safer not to get anything too highly concentrated just yet (or possibly ever). Since Wizard labs had a good sale going on, I think I probably got more than I need immediately. In any event, I got 30mL 36mg/mL that I figured I'd use to start off with, and also purchased a 60mL bottle of 48mg/mL that I will wait to open until I've fooled around some with the lesser strength. I went a little wild on the flavors; if I decided to stick with DIY I'm pretty well stocked for a while I think.

I can't imagine why I wouldn't enjoy doing it... I'm so excited! I ended up getting a bunch of flavors right from Wizard and also from The Perfumer's Apprentice for the time being.

Thanks for all the help; I will report back.

 

[ddirtyvapes]

Hey I just had one question that's slightly off topic but I didn't want to forget and it's still regarding getting started with DIY. What do you guys prefer to do: do you make every mix completely from scratch, or do you make a large bottle of your preferred PG/VG ratio and nicotine content and then simply add flavor to that?

 

[Aurora-Oblivion]

Hey I just had one question that's slightly off topic but I didn't want to forget and it's still regarding getting started with DIY. What do you guys prefer to do: do you make every mix completely from scratch, or do you make a large bottle of your preferred PG/VG ratio and nicotine content and then simply add flavor to that?

That's a great question, thanks for asking! I've just started getting into vaping, and even before getting going I've been looking into DIY, so I'm glad to see someone ask what I'd been looking around for comments on.

Thanks!

 

[Cookster]

I make a 60ml bottle of my Base every 7-10 days, that's enough to make 4 15ml bottles. I also make a 60ml bottle of my 0nic PG/VG Base in my ratio for testing, and for evening vaping. Soo much easier than measuring every time.