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Interesting conversation

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rachelcoffe

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Jul 25, 2010
568
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Toronto
Kat makes a good point, in that if it's at all possible to get this woman to see reason, Trailer...to get her to critically examine why she believes what she believes...then perhaps you can turn this situation around.

Assuming that she's intractable though, we have a problem.

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I do not for one minute believe it is acceptable - at all - for our government-employed health "specialists" to have less expertise than a potato. Or embrace demonstrably harmful misinformation. Or refuse to critically examine such misinformation, or even look at the basic facts that objectively disprove it.

Barring a prompt turnaround, this woman is not qualified to work that job anymore. She is a danger to public health. People assume a smoking-cessation specialist, hired by the government to a position of authority & responsibility, has competent & up-to-date knowledge. That's not an unusual standard. Unqualified people have no business working in our health care system. Her obvious lack of competent & up-to-date knowledge, while claiming to have such...essentially constitutes fraud. I know that sounds harsh - but that's what it is!

Either is she is totally incompetent (i.e. not at an expert at all, and willfully lacking basic, crucial, relevant knowledge to top it off) - or, she is deliberately providing fraudulent information to smokers, in her capacity as a government employee. With a clear financial benefit to herself as the result.

Either way - in her position of trust & authority, her misinformation can & likely will directly result in deaths. This is preventable; this is atrocious.

This is so basic. Why are we standing by & meekly allowing liars & idiots to go unchallenged? Why do we react with surprise when we do nothing - and nothing changes for the better? The next time a healthcare worker tells you that we don't know what's in e-cig vapour, challenge them. We do know. Ask them to call Dr. Michael Siegel of the University of Boston. It's been conclusively proven to death! Lies have only the power that we allow them to have. We must challenge them, or they prevail. If we'd effectively use facts to challenge b.s. when we encounter it - we might actually see the tiniest bit of good come from it.

Our tax dollars are meant to hire qualified, educated, honest people to these healthcare positions. Not quacks with an obvious conflict-of-interest, who either lie or spout easily-disproven quackery. Who angrily refuse to admit that water is wet...even when it's pouring rain on their heads.

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Maybe this woman is just misguided; maybe, as Kat suggested, she's just read some incorrect bulletin somewhere. But remember, she's passing herself off as an expert. If she's such an expert, why is her knowledge so lacking? She's accountable on that score! If she really doesn't know what she's talking about, because all she read was the headline from some blurb or bulletin etc...she should admit it, as follows:

"I'm really not qualified to comment on e-cigs; I'm not up to date on them or the details about them. My expertise doesn't cover them." She didn't do that though.

Her present ignorance is not the problem. It's the fact that she's willfully clinging to her ignorance. She actually got angry when you challenged her misinformation. She completely dismissed the fact that you were now smoke-free! Clearly she doesn't want to see the truth. And that's the most dangerous kind of mindset out there.
 

rachelcoffe

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Jul 25, 2010
568
230
Toronto
P.S. Sorry for getting so heated. A lot of people are ignorant about all kinds of things: we're all learning, every day. As long as people are willing to learn & read & consider & compare & examine things, with an open mind...then we're golden.

What I do find highly offensive is willful ignorance. Especially in a case like this, where someone is in the direct position of being able to save smokers or leave them in their chains. This woman is using our tax dollars - & a phony pretense of expertise - to dissuade & discourage smokers from even considering an infinitely healthier alternative. An alternative that also happens to be magnitudes more effective than anything else. An alternative that is clinically, professionally proven now to be no more harmful than common caffeine consumption.

If you're a compassionate person who cares about helping others...you should be deeply offended when someone uses your money & blatant falsehoods to manipulate people into not considering the thing that would definitely help them.
 

Trailer

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2011
71
21
Parry Sound, On Can
It would've been interesting to ask her: "So given a choice between continuing to smoke, or using an e-cig...are you actually saying I should keep on smoking?"

That question almost word for word did leave my lips. It was a good few hours of discussion, not all of it heated. I tried my best to leverage in at least a little bit of fact so that she might look into it herself and educate herself a little better. I also was open to her side, if there was a good factual reason why e-cigs are not "safe" etc...
I just became so exasperated by the end of it that I lost my cool. ( as did she)

I went through all the down sides of NRT's and of drugs like Zyban and Champix ( sp?) both from personal experience and experiences of my friends. As well passed along as much as I could remember about the uses of PG in society as a food additive.
As well as in drugs ( and yes ...in antifreeze)

I don't know if I can be angry , it really is just ignorance and misinformation. Although i try and keep in mind and keep in perspective that i'm no expert either. I'm a consumer, and I tend to think a well informed one. But she was right when she said "you don't know the chemical makeup of what you're inhaling"... ok point taken , although I knew less with an analog...

Maybe this woman is just misguided; maybe, as Kat suggested, she's just read some incorrect bulletin somewhere. But remember, she's passing herself off as an expert. If she's such an expert, why is her knowledge so lacking? She's accountable on that score! If she really doesn't know what she's talking about, because all she read was the headline from some blurb or bulletin etc...she should admit it, as follows:

I tend to agree with the above. I know she basically wants to help people and is doing her job to the best of her ability ( as she has understood it ) Thing is i wish she would think for herself a little and maybe do some research outside the confines of what she is handed by her employer and Health Canada.

The biggest thing ( and I actually laughed at her) was that she said and i'll try and quote it "I wouldn't doubt it if BIG TOBACCO are the ones behind e-cigs as a way to get kids smoking"

That was were i pretty much lost my cool as well. ;)

I think i may have also made it sound like she was 100% against it. That wasn't totally the case, I could sense she was generally interested but still clinging to the "but they are not safe, or tested" and the "marketed to children" arguments.

I won't give up on her either though - i've been emailing her info as I come across it that supports my argument. Partially in hopes she will send me stuff back that supports hers ( As i'd love to see where it comes from) .

Happy vaping!
 
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