Interesting! (Lol) Adjusting Resistance on SMOK Mods

[Imfallen_Angel]

Im not even talking about TC. Im talking about power mode actually.

Ok, that wasn't clear what your intent was.

Why do you think playing with this setting could fry the mod? Why dont u think it will change the applied wattage?

As I said, if you did something extreme, it could cause an overload if the mod is working with the assumption of a correct ohm reading, but as I stated, odds are (99.999%) that the moment it detects something being "off" it will kick in an error message and stop the power output.

If you set your wattage, why would it change? The ohm reading is just a reading (in power mode) and the mod absolutely doesn't care, it simply does what you tell it to do, it's up to you to set your wattage. If I set any mod at 50W, it's going to give 50W max, as that's what it's set, not 60W, not 100W just because of the coil, it doesn't work that way.

(I'll not get into pre-heat stuff as it's not part of this)

If you mess the balance up of wattage against the resistance, you will end up burning your cotton and coil and get dry hits, or if you really mess with it so badly that you could (in theory) blow your coil (cause it to pop or melt) should the burst of high wattage be "faster" than the board's capacity to detect an overload.

Since this is in "power mode", it's job is simply to deliver the power you instruct it too, and to shut itself off should it detects something wrong. It regulates the power from the battery(ies) to the coil and ensure safety, that's what a regulated mod's job is. In TC mod, it simply does the "next step" which is the monitoring of the coil's resistance to balance the output to provide a balanced vape according to the settings you give it.

The regulated mod has plenty of "safeties" to prevent such occurrence, but if you really push, you could find a way to have something happen. Not sure if playing (or how much) with the ohm reading might cause something, but again, it's a very pointless "option" in my opinion... basically, if smok can't trust it's mods to register the ohm reading correctly, I'd be worried about the quality of their metering system.

This appears to be more reminiscent of computers with people playing with overclocking their CPU to get "5%" more speed (which is barely noticeable but creates extra heat that wears the CPU down faster).

Your question reminds me of "how many times can I poke a bear with a stick before it rips my head off".

 

[Imfallen_Angel]

I would really like someone to answer this: suppose dirt or a loose connection affects the resistsance the mod reads. How does this affect the power it supplies to the body of resistance?

Please dont say "it makes it wrong." No duh. Im asking how it makes it wrong. Does the dirt get power to, so the atty doesnt take all the power? Does something go wrong with board? What is specifically happenening in such a situation? Im asking because its interesting to me, not because its important to my life.

If there's a bad connection or dirt that makes the reading unstable, the mod's job will be to give you an error and not push any power. It will/should simply detect something is not balancing or stable and stop.

Either you'll see "bad coil", "error", "check coil", "short" or whatever the mod shows.

If you somehow have it stable enough that the board doesn't detect a short or so on, it will deliver the power that you set it at...

If as the power starts and your coil pops or anything happens, the mod should see this very quickly and stop the power output.

And, again, the mod will deliver the power that you set it at, it doesn't care about the coil's rating, size, type of metal, etc. in power mode, the mod has only two jobs, to provide the power assigned, and detect anything so to protect the batteries from an overload/short.

 

[Imfallen_Angel]

If your question is about "how safe" things are "should" something contaminates my coil/tank?...(and how will my mod behave?)

The direct answer is a simple "just clean your tank already, why would you vape with a tank that has crap in it?"

But at the same time...there are millions of people vaping, and there's yet to be incidents of something going bad because of a dirty tank (at least that I've seen in the last 5+ years).... and I'm certain that some have probably terrible "vape hygiene".

But the number of regulated mods that fails the safety aspect of overloads, is extremely rare. Regulated mods will have the board fry, the soldering/wiring be crappy, battery door loose, but all results in no power going to the tank anyways.

 

[Eskie]

For me a significantly varying change in resistance will be due to three things (OK, four with temperature, at least with a TC wire). It's either a screw in the post not making a decent connection, a problem with the post itself (is that insulator under OK or melted?) or the 510 pin (dirty, loose, or any other issue). IMHO, those are issues that should be resolved before you vape on a tank.

As to Smok's inclusion of this "feature", yes it sounds like what @Imfallen_Angel said, creating a "whiz bang" feature which adds no additional functionality and is likely to leave most users scratching their heads trying to figure out how it should be used.

 

[PBody19]

Lol

Ok, that wasn't clear what your intent was.



As I said, if you did something extreme, it could cause an overload if the mod is working with the assumption of a correct ohm reading, but as I stated, odds are (99.999%) that the moment it detects something being "off" it will kick in an error message and stop the power output.

If you set your wattage, why would it change? The ohm reading is just a reading (in power mode) and the mod absolutely doesn't care, it simply does what you tell it to do, it's up to you to set your wattage. If I set any mod at 50W, it's going to give 50W max, as that's what it's set, not 60W, not 100W just because of the coil, it doesn't work that way.

(I'll not get into pre-heat stuff as it's not part of this)

If you mess the balance up of wattage against the resistance, you will end up burning your cotton and coil and get dry hits, or if you really mess with it so badly that you could (in theory) blow your coil (cause it to pop or melt) should the burst of high wattage be "faster" than the board's capacity to detect an overload.

Since this is in "power mode", it's job is simply to deliver the power you instruct it too, and to shut itself off should it detects something wrong. It regulates the power from the battery(ies) to the coil and ensure safety, that's what a regulated mod's job is. In TC mod, it simply does the "next step" which is the monitoring of the coil's resistance to balance the output to provide a balanced vape according to the settings you give it.

The regulated mod has plenty of "safeties" to prevent such occurrence, but if you really push, you could find a way to have something happen. Not sure if playing (or how much) with the ohm reading might cause something, but again, it's a very pointless "option" in my opinion... basically, if SMOK can't trust it's mods to register the ohm reading correctly, I'd be worried about the quality of their metering system.

This appears to be more reminiscent of computers with people playing with overclocking their CPU to get "5%" more speed (which is barely noticeable but creates extra heat that wears the CPU down faster).

Your question reminds me of "how many times can I poke a bear with a stick before it rips my head off".

Lmao. Youre mad condescending, on top of not answering any of my questions. Whatever Pontiff.

 

[PBody19]

For me a significantly varying change in resistance will be due to three things (OK, four with temperature, at least with a TC wire). It's either a screw in the post not making a decent connection, a problem with the post itself (is that insulator under OK or melted?) or the 510 pin (dirty, loose, or any other issue). IMHO, those are issues that should be resolved before you vape on a tank.

As to Smok's inclusion of this "feature", yes it sounds like what @Imfallen_Angel said, creating a "whiz bang" feature which adds no additional functionality and is likely to leave most users scratching their heads trying to figure out how it should be used.

Yea but im.not trying to resolve any issues. Cmon guys, why do you all keep repeating this over and over again. Im asking what the mod is going to do from a technical standpoint in a situation like this, and also when you chsnge the set resistance.

Really, its OK if you dont know. Its fine.

 

[PBody19]

If there's a bad connection or dirt that makes the reading unstable, the mod's job will be to give you an error and not push any power. It will/should simply detect something is not balancing or stable and stop.

Either you'll see "bad coil", "error", "check coil", "short" or whatever the mod shows.

If you somehow have it stable enough that the board doesn't detect a short or so on, it will deliver the power that you set it at...

If as the power starts and your coil pops or anything happens, the mod should see this very quickly and stop the power output.

And, again, the mod will deliver the power that you set it at, it doesn't care about the coil's rating, size, type of metal, etc. in power mode, the mod has only two jobs, to provide the power assigned, and detect anything so to protect the batteries from an overload/short.

How does the mod regulate the power it draws from the batteries without taking the measured body of resistsnce into account? If you tell me this, you will have finally answered something for me.

 

[Imfallen_Angel]

Lol

Lmao. Youre mad condescending, on top of not answering any of my questions. Whatever Pontiff.

You're asking very unclear questions, and we are trying to respond best with what you're giving. Condescending.. look in the mirror first.

Yea but im.not trying to resolve any issues. Cmon guys, why do you all keep repeating this over and over again. Im asking what the mod is going to do from a technical standpoint in a situation like this, and also when you chsnge the set resistance.

Really, its OK if you dont know. Its fine.

We're repeating these things because you are not clear in what you're asking... we are answering your questions as you're putting them.

About that condescending thing... well....

How does the mod regulate the power it draws from the batteries without taking the measured body of resistsnce into account? If you tell me this, you will have finally answered something for me.

We already have answered it, you might have not understood it, so I'll try again for one last try.

In power mode, you set the wattage: THIS set wattage is what the mod will be pushing to the coil.

It does NOT care about the resistance, THAT is the user's responsibility to know what he's doing and put a coil of an acceptable level. Hence why even with TC, most people are advised to look up OHM's law, but at the same time, as long as the coil is within the mod's capacity, it doesn't matter, that is why it's called a regulated mod.

The important thing to remember is that the amount of wattage will matter when you have a smaller coil, as it will heat up faster according to the smaller gauge size, so two coils at 0.5ohm, both at 60W, the smaller gauge will have less wire(wraps) for the same ohm reading and the center should heat up much faster. The larger coil, to reach the same level, will take longer to reach that same heat level. This is part of that balance thing I mentioned earlier.

For example
two SS coils at 0.9 Ohm
At 28 gauge: 9 wraps - Heat flux per Watt 13.88 mW/mm² (Heat capacity 23.13 mJ/K)
At 24 gauge: 21 wraps - Heat flux per Watt 7.68 mW/mm² (Heat capacity 66.52 mJ/K)
Basically, you need more power because you have more metal but less resistance the larger the gauge is, which is resolved (to get the same ohm reading) with length of the wire.

So still the mod will NOT care about the resistance in power mode, it's job is to output that 60W that you've set it at, and ensure safety.

This is also why we always tell to every new person, start at a low setting and increase it until you get to your comfort point, in power more, the important thing is to not go over what the coil/build can handle.

If the mod's sensors sense something that is outside it's parameters (such as that wattage output coming through as something out of whack for such a closed circuit), it shuts down the power output to the coil, either due to sensing a problem with the resistance/circuit throughput, or anything that might cause an overload to the battery, including feedback, a sudden change in resistance, etc..

This is very different from a mech, which the resistance impacts the power output of the battery... as the battery drains and the power output lowers, so the wattage used is completely dependent on the coil resistance.

A regulated mod doesn't do this, it doesn't care about the resistance, it will provide the power as per your settings.

I don't know if it's because you're used or read about mechs that you're stuck on this, but just know that mechs and regulated are very different devices.

 

[PBody19]

I didnt read the rest of your response yet, so im not gonna comment on the information, but about that first part... yea right. Im condescending for finding you condescending. Ok pal. Nice worldview you have their. Maybe answer peoples questions without cursing or acting like a know it. So far you havent answered my questions. Sorry that you think you have and its bothering you that much. Ill read the rest of your response. Later.

But before I get to it, maybe youre no answering my questions because you use like language like "the mod doesnt care..." brother, a mod diesbt have the ability to care. Im not extremely well versed in the circuitry to begin with, you cant use metaphors with me. Maybe thats where you dont understand your falling short with me.

 

[PBody19]

You're asking very unclear questions, and we are trying to respond best with what you're giving. Condescending.. look in the mirror first.



We're repeating these things because you are not clear in what you're asking... we are answering your questions as you're putting them.

About that condescending thing... well....



We already have answered it, you might have not understood it, so I'll try again for one last try.

In power mode, you set the wattage: THIS set wattage is what the mod will be pushing to the coil.

It does NOT care about the resistance, THAT is the user's responsibility to know what he's doing and put a coil of an acceptable level. Hence why even with TC, most people are advised to look up OHM's law, but at the same time, as long as the coil is within the mod's capacity, it doesn't matter, that is why it's called a regulated mod.

The important thing to remember is that the amount of wattage will matter when you have a smaller coil, as it will heat up faster according to the smaller gauge size, so two coils at 0.5ohm, both at 60W, the smaller gauge will have less wire(wraps) for the same ohm reading and the center should heat up much faster. The larger coil, to reach the same level, will take longer to reach that same heat level. This is part of that balance thing I mentioned earlier.

For example
two SS coils at 0.9 Ohm
At 28 gauge: 9 wraps - Heat flux per Watt 13.88 mW/mm² (Heat capacity 23.13 mJ/K)
At 24 gauge: 21 wraps - Heat flux per Watt 7.68 mW/mm² (Heat capacity 66.52 mJ/K)
Basically, you need more power because you have more metal but less resistance the larger the gauge is, which is resolved (to get the same ohm reading) with length of the wire.

So still the mod will NOT care about the resistance in power mode, it's job is to output that 60W that you've set it at, and ensure safety.

This is also why we always tell to every new person, start at a low setting and increase it until you get to your comfort point, in power more, the important thing is to not go over what the coil/build can handle.

If the mod's sensors sense something that is outside it's parameters (such as that wattage output coming through as something out of whack for such a closed circuit), it shuts down the power output to the coil, either due to sensing a problem with the resistance/circuit throughput, or anything that might cause an overload to the battery, including feedback, a sudden change in resistance, etc..

This is very different from a mech, which the resistance impacts the power output of the battery... as the battery drains and the power output lowers, so the wattage used is completely dependent on the coil resistance.

A regulated mod doesn't do this, it doesn't care about the resistance, it will provide the power as per your settings.

I don't know if it's because you're used or read about mechs that you're stuck on this, but just know that mechs and regulated are very different devices.

Ok, look I understand, and previously knew, everything you wrote, again. I am new to coil building, but regardless, I was aware of all of that before you wrote it.

What I need answered, now, is how does the mod regulate the power going to the coil if it doesnt take into account registered resistance. How does it regulste voltage and amps if registered resistance isnt a factor in that function? And if the registered resistance is incorrect because of dirt or weak connection, or whatever, then what happens to the power at that point? Is the output voltage and amperage simply correct for that resistance, and still makes it to the coil. Or is both the output voltage and amperage wrong AND some of the power gets diverted from the coil to the dirt, screws, etc? I dont see how it isnt clear that what I'm asking isnt being answered by your previous responses.

 

[Imfallen_Angel]

Ok, look I understand, and previously knew, everything you wrote, again. I am new to coil building, but regardless, I was aware of all of that before you wrote it.

What I need answered, now, is how does the mod regulate the power going to the coil if it doesnt take into account registered resistance. How does it regulste voltage and amps if registered resistance isnt a factor in that function? And if the registered resistance is incorrect because of dirt or weak connection, or whatever, then what happens to the power at that point? Is the output voltage and amperage simply correct for that resistance, and still makes it to the coil. Or is both the output voltage and amperage wrong AND some of the power gets diverted from the coil to the dirt, screws, etc? I dont see how it isnt clear that what I'm asking isnt being answered by your previous responses.

You are just being arrogant and rude at this point and repeating the same thing over and over because while you supposedly know everything already, you're not able to understand something as simple as "the mods has sensors and acts accordingly to what they are programmed to do".

If the positive and the negative flow through the coil is detected as within operational parameters = power is pushed out at the wattage setting that you've set it at.

If there's something at all that registers as not normal is any way or form, between the positive and negative of the 510 pin to the coil = power is stopped, none is given, the mod's output is stopped by it's circuitry, and if it was alive, it would stares at you as it will not do anything until you fix the problem. There will not be "jumping volts" or Amps, it's not going to divert it, it's simply going to shut the power going to the coil completely off until you give it a coil (or fix things) that it's able to read as proper, and again, the ohms don't matter, it simply needs a coil that reads properly.

It doesn't matter what the resistance is, the sensors are very precise and is looking for any sort of non-normal behavior, so if there's a bad connection or dirt, it will detect fluctuations in the flow of power, and stops, all within a micro-second.

It doesn't matter if your coil is large or big, has hot spots, is badly wicked, or anything, as long as it registers a resistance that's within it's capacity, it will fire. If if senses anything wrong, it will not fire... and the sensors are activated a few micro-seconds before it starts pushing any power out, hence why if it gets a bad reading, it will not fire at all.

If the mod fails to these examples, (in an extreme case) you could end up with a spark that might cause a bunch of things, from the coil getting soldered to the tank's walls or posts, to burnt wick, but odds are that you'd just end up with an error message is nearly certain.

So yes, it's the same answer as before, because that is the answer... if you don't get it again and decide to be rude again, I don't know what else to tell you.

 

[KenD]

Yea but im.not trying to resolve any issues. Cmon guys, why do you all keep repeating this over and over again. Im asking what the mod is going to do from a technical standpoint in a situation like this, and also when you chsnge the set resistance.

Really, its OK if you dont know. Its fine.

It's been answered though. The mod will provide voltage according to the resistance you tell it the coil is at rather than the resistance it is at. As wattage is a result of voltage and resistance, the power will be offset. Of course, if the mod actually reads the resistance wrong and you happen to dial in the resistance correctly, you'll end up with the accurate wattage. As to what exactly dirt in the connections would do, I'm not sure, other than cause an inherently unstable connection that may cause the resistance to fluctuate. Voltage drop, more battery use as the path to the coil isn't clean.

Sent from my K6000 Pro using Tapatalk

 

[PBody19]

It's been answered though. The mod will provide voltage according to the resistance you tell it the coil is at rather than the resistance it is at. As wattage is a result of voltage and resistance, the power will be offset. Of course, if the mod actually reads the resistance wrong and you happen to dial in the resistance correctly, you'll end up with the accurate wattage. As to what exactly dirt in the connections would do, I'm not sure, other than cause an inherently unstable connection that may cause the resistance to fluctuate. Voltage drop, more battery use as the path to the coil isn't clean.

Sent from my K6000 Pro using Tapatalk

Ok youre not sure. Its fine Ken. I still apprecoate your interest in my question, and it doesnt bother me that youre not sure. Thanks again.

 

[SteveS45]

 

[retired1]

Enough. Some of you know better. I suggest you ALL read the rules.

Forum Rules

Next trip into this thread will result in some unpleasantness. You have been warned.

 

[ericbnc]

I built a coil, wicked it, and had a vape. What was it supposed to taste like? The bottle wasn't labeled, could've been scented hand sanitizer even.

What temp do you guys use vaping hand sanitizer? I don't vape it cause that would be gross, but if I did, would warm be better or worse than hot?

 

[Carl2]

I can understand Pbody19's frustrations because I tried to learn about the preheating but couldn't find information on it. I studied electronics and worked in electronics for years, unfortunately measuring very small resistances and working with low voltages and high current were very rare.
I found this video very good and useful since I do own a Smok G-Priv and goes into what we are talking about. An example of the initial ohms adjustment, I put in a RBA deck with 2 SS coils at .400 ohms, the vaporizer read this and everything worked, latter I try it again but it's not working, I adjust the initial ohms to .339 and it works so the vaporizer saw the coil voltage was to low and wouldn't work until the initial ohms was changed. So we do have our protective circuitry for the device. I should mention I am using this in temp mode. I'd think the change I made would give me a different temp lower than what I'd chosen.

 

[Carl2]

A rather long reply and I'd agree with Ken. I wanted to provide a link to the Smok video I mentioned.