IPV5 200W TC

[sd3614]

Testing it now and in power mode I did not hear it pulse above 150 (though it was just a brief sec). However its not a "real" 150ish on my .25 Crown anyway. Wish I still had a TFV4 .15 laying around. For the record the IPV3li did not pulse either so I'm not shocked.

The SS304 setting (all TC settings) are only going to 120 Joules (might as well call it 120 watt TC). So I'm not getting much vapor on the SS setting out of the box per say maxed out 572F.

So far it's sexy as hell, but not sure if it's a win over the Cubis.

 

[AtmizrOpin]

Testing it now and in power mode I did not hear it pulse above 150 (though it was just a brief sec). However its not a "real" 150ish on my .25 Crown anyway. Wish I still had a TFV4 .15 laying around. For the record the IPV3li did not pulse either so I'm not shocked.

The SS304 setting (all TC settings) are only going to 120 Joules (might as well call it 120 watt TC). So I'm not getting much vapor on the SS setting out of the box per say maxed out 572F.

So far it's sexy as hell, but not sure if it's a win over the Cubis.

View attachment 525258

how about some internal pics? i def think the cuboid edges this out simply for the manual TCR option. ipv5 doesn't have this, correct?

 

[Marc411]

Another two-battery mod that claims 200w. Folks, there are no 18650 that can handle that much amperage. You need three 18650s for 200w. So, either sigelei are lying about the 200w (or doing some kind of pulsing above 150w like the Snow Wolf) or they have created an unsafe device.

KenD, being an advocate for battery safety is extremely honorable but by design and features built into the devices ensure if they do not have defects are not unsafe.

This was the question I asked Mooch, a well respected authority on batteries and battery safety. For those of you that do not know him he is testing batteries used in our devices to promote safety and so that we are truly aware of what lurks behind the wrapper. My understand from watching an interview with him and by reading most of his writings he works in the industry.

My question was:

Even with quality batteries are OEM's putting users at risk because they are releasing devices that at the max wattage are going to cause batteries to fail? Example:

Someone picks up a 200W device and places a .2 ohm build into it and ramps it up to 200W on a set of 25R's.

What type of run time can they expect? Can they easily push the battery past it's limits and cause the cell to go thermal?

Each of the devices listed below seem to exceed a battery (s) useable CDR but have been released to the open market.

Dual 18650 devices maxed out @ 200W
Single 26650 devices maxed out @ 100W
Single 18650 devices maxed out @ 90W

Mooch's response:

It's very hard to force a battery into thermal runaway without short circuiting it. There are some that can be forced to vent if pushed hard enough but most of the lower current rated batteries, and even a lot of the high current rated batteries, just have their voltage collapse at high discharge levels and you'd get a low battery alert.

Even the crappy 20A batteries can usually be pulsed at 40A and beyond, making them capable of powering a 100W device individually or a 200W device as a pair. They might get pretty warm if chain vaping but not enough to vent. There's no real danger unless the mod autofires and the battery is discharged continuously. If that happens there are a few batteries that might vent. But not many at this "low" of a discharge current level.

The battery life at these high levels will be crap though and a lot of batteries might only fire the mod for a couple of pulls before a low battery message appears.

With all that said, are these devices putting users at risk? Difficult to answer.
They're not putting anyone at any more risk than any mechanical or unregulated mod is. One can argue though that regulated mods are often used by new vapers and that they should be held to a different standard than mechanical/unregulated mods.

We're in a really tough position here. We want to encourage vapers to stay below the CDR for long battery life and a good safety margin but batteries can be vaped with at beyond their CDR, sometimes far beyond, without risk of venting. Even if the mod malfunctions. A lot of new vapers see the videos, read the posts, hear the stories, and immediately want to run at beyond the CDR. They see their friends and others do it without incident (but not without risk) and see no reason why they shouldn't either.

How do we handle that? If we yell at them that it's crazy dangerous and they'll blow up, they're not going to listen as that hasn't happened to anyone they know. If we try to educate them calmly they won't listen because it's boring and they don't believe us anyway since "everyone else" does it without issues. We could tell them how far they can go past the CDR with a reasonable degree of safety (because it really is pretty safe, up to a point) but now a lot of other people get upset because they feel that the CDR is a hard limit.

There's no good answer here IMHO.

 

[sd3614]

how about some internal pics? i def think the cuboid edges this out simply for the manual TCR option. ipv5 doesn't have this, correct?

It has an on board manual TCR setting. I will get a review up soon on it. I'm also checking out the IPV Pure X1 tank along with this.

Regarding 200 watts on 2 18650, generally speaking the LG HB6 paired with the correct coil should do 200 watts for a short time (until battery drains).

 

[jstrong]

Can someone who has this check to see if it saves your presets in TC/Joule Mode> On the IPV4, IPV3 LI it does not save it.

 

[herb]

i have a 3 li, has been working great since i bought it few mths ago.

Imo the iPV 35 watt , iPV 50 watt , iPV mini , iPV2X , iPV2S , iPV III and iPV III Li are still the most rugged and dependable iPV's ever released .

The iPV 4 took a drastic turn in build quality and this new one looks to be following suit . Not bad mods by any means but not nearly as rugged as the all aluminum framed models , the price reflects that .

 

[KenD]

KenD, being an advocate for battery safety is extremely honorable but by design and features built into the devices ensure if they do not have defects are not unsafe.

This was the question I asked Mooch, a well respected authority on batteries and battery safety. For those of you that do not know him he is testing batteries used in our devices to promote safety and so that we are truly aware of what lurks behind the wrapper. My understand from watching an interview with him and by reading most of his writings he works in the industry.

My question was:



Mooch's response:

You're obviously reading Mooch's response very differently than I am. The way I'm reading it: "it's very unlikely that anything bad will happen, but exceeding the cdr is not recommended". You seem to focus only on the "it's very unlikely..." part, and interpreting it as an outright "it's safe". Nothing changes the fact that continuous discharge ratings are the only standardized safety limits of cells, and these one-battery 100w and two-battery 200w devices exceed those limits

It's beyond me why we all are so adamant on the necessity to stay within the cdr of batteries with mech mods but for some reason the same safety recommendations don't apply to regulated mods. Why is that? Marc, why is it so important for you to defend devices that exceed the cdr of batteries? I know why it's so important for me to criticize manufacturers who create such devices, and inform people that they're exceeding the specs of their batteries which them.

Sent from my M7_PLUS using Tapatalk

 

[AtmizrOpin]

it's been my experience, when the board inside a mod senses too much voltage sag from the battery or batteries, it will simply reduce the power or not fire. we've come a long way with over current protection etc. etc. in modern regulated mods. i don't equate mechanical mods to (most) regulated mods when it comes to drawing more than the battery can deliver.

happy birthday........you smell that?

 

[Vlad1]

It's beyond me why we all are so adamant on the necessity to stay within the cdr of batteries with mech mods but for some reason the same safety recommendations don't apply to regulated mods.

Mech mods don't have circuitry with potential to impose current limiting and battery monitoring. Mechs also don't have firing time limits so one could fire a mech in a continuous manner, but not really with a regulated mod. Mech mods simply allow current to flow through the circuit once the switch is closed and the amount of power pulled is directly related to the resistance of the coil and voltage of the battery. Regulated mods (regulate) so the current pulled at the input isn't necessarily the same as it is at the output. Kind of comparing apples to oranges.

For example say I wanted to pull 200W on a regulated 2x 18650 device and allowing for 10% loss which would be on the high side, I'd need 220W at the input

P=I*V, P=V^2/R, P=I^2*R
220W @ 7.4V would be 29.7A on the input and the load would appear to be .248Ω to the batteries

Now on the output side and after the device (Regulates) and the true resistance of the coil is .1Ω and taking into consideration the 10% loss
200W @ .1Ω would be 4.47V and 44.7A, so even though this would exceed the cdr, the batteries don't see this current draw so it's irrelevant.

Whereas if you placed the same .1Ω load on a mech at 7.4V the batteries would see a 74A draw and 547W.

So I think what your missing mostly is the regulated devices have the potential to limit input current and secondly were not really vaping in a continuous manner but more in a pulse. But if we were, the regulated device wouldn't allow us to fire for more than 10-15 sec where a mech would allow a true continuous firing.

I know why it's so important for me to criticize manufacturers who create such devices, and inform people that they're exceeding the specs of their batteries which them.

And lastly while I'm sure this is with good intentions, assuming any regulated device is exceeding the specs without placing an ammeter in line to check what the max current being pulled from such device is just that an assumption, as different devices could incorporate a variety of different input current limits.

Edit: And to try to not derail this thread with misinformation parroted from numerous other threads there is a thread for this very topic that would probably be a better place to discuss. 200 Watt Mods Battery Safety

 

[KenD]

Mech mods don't have circuitry with potential to impose current limiting and battery monitoring. Mechs also don't have firing time limits so one could fire a mech in a continuous manner, but not really with a regulated mod. Mech mods simply allow current to flow through the circuit once the switch is closed and the amount of power pulled is directly related to the resistance of the coil and voltage of the battery. Regulated mods (regulate) so the current pulled at the input isn't necessarily the same as it is at the output. Kind of comparing apples to oranges.

For example say I wanted to pull 200W on a regulated 2x 18650 device and allowing for 10% loss which would be on the high side, I'd need 220W at the input

P=I*V, P=V^2/R, P=I^2*R
220W @ 7.4V would be 29.7A on the input and the load would appear to be .248Ω to the batteries

Now on the output side and after the device (Regulates) and the true resistance of the coil is .1Ω and taking into consideration the 10% loss
200W @ .1Ω would be 4.47V and 44.7A, so even though this would exceed the cdr, the batteries don't see this current draw so it's irrelevant.

Whereas if you placed the same .1Ω load on a mech at 7.4V the batteries would see a 74A draw and 547W.

Sure, I'm well aware of the difference between input and output current. You're the one who's comparing apples to oranges though. Comparing a 200w and a 547w output is just ridiculous. Of course the latter will put more of a strain on the batteries. All things being equal, the battery drain will be higher on the regulated device due to the chip eating up some current. Of course, with the mech you'll never get the full wattage an ohms law calculation would suggest due to battery sag, whereas a regulated device will force the battery to provide the required current. Also, why are you using the nominal voltage in your calculations? In a regulated device the drain is highest at the battery cutoff voltage. I'm not the one missing anything here, I think you are.

So I think what your missing mostly is the regulated devices have the potential to limit input current and secondly were not really vaping in a continuous manner but more in a pulse. But if we were, the regulated device wouldn't allow us to fire for more than 10-15 sec where a mech would allow a true continuous firing.

"But vaping isn't continuous drain, it's pulsing" is the mantra of those who stupidly push the limits on mech mods as well. As is usually responded to to such arguments: define pulse and the require rest time. Sure, it's most likely ok, but I'm not the one who wants to exceed the established safe limits. I might do that myself, but I'd never tell anyone else that it's safe. That's just irresponsible.

And lastly while I'm sure this is with good intentions, assuming any regulated device is exceeding the specs without placing an ammeter in line to check what the max current being pulled from such device is just that an assumption, as different devices could incorporate a variety of different input current limits.

Edit: And to try to not derail this thread with misinformation parroted from numerous other threads there is a thread for this very topic that would probably be a better place to discuss. 200 Watt Mods Battery Safety

My original post on the subject was on December 19, before that thread was created. I've said what I want to say on the subject and only respond to posts directed at me. You should take this up with the poster who dragged up my more than a month old post (and yourself perhaps). On that note, to repeat myself, I have no interest whatsoever to continue this discussion here.

Sent from my M7_PLUS using Tapatalk

 

[Marc411]

KenD, again and respectfully I do believe that placing safety first and you promoting safety is great, it's very admirable!

I question the sky is falling message.

Saying these devices are unsafe is not a true statement. You and I interpret Mooch's message that "it's very unlikely that anything bad will happen, but exceeding the cdr is not recommended" the same way. I also take into account that regulated devices (unless defective) has triggers in place to stop a user from placing an inappropriate strain on batteries. Mooch also stated that "The battery life at these high levels will be crap though and a lot of batteries might only fire the mod for a couple of pulls before a low battery message appears."

That is what occurs with regulated devices that are free of defects!

As I said in another thread, battery failures in my opinion are a big problem for our community. The media is already bias and doesn't do the research to discover the truth. "Others" will use that information against the community.

If we focus on educating people that vaping at 200W (or any high wattage) could be potentially harmful because you run a greater risk of getting a dry hit and inhaling bad chemicals or your cotton can start on fire at high temps then we are being accurate.

We would be better served to add accuracy to our message and educate, not just make a blanket statement that a given regulated device is dangerous because it exceeds the CDR. Every cloud chaser out there exceeds the CDR on batteries and there is no regulation in the device to stop potential failures. A direct to battery (sometimes called a hybrid) can be dangerous for several reasons, a short in the build, a bad 510 connection a loose piece of wire in an atomizer. These devices protect you from those potential risks.

Now if you want to say that these OEM's releasing 200 - 220 watt devices are full of it..... That vaping at those wattages maybe be done for a couple seconds at best and it could exhaust your batteries life or at that wattage your cotton may burst into flames and that it could lead to dry hits and inhaling potentially harmful chemicals.

Or that it is a ridiculous marketing ploy

I'm all in!

Accuracy in the message!

 

[sd3614]

Can someone who has this check to see if it saves your presets in TC/Joule Mode> On the IPV4, IPV3 LI it does not save it.

So far, it appears to be a yes! So far this seems to be a very suitable upgrade to the IPV3li.

 

[Marc411]

So far, it appears to be a yes! So far this seems to be a very suitable upgrade to the IPV3li.

Same here.

I'm on the second day with this device and it's really pretty nice. Overall I think they designed a good looking device, addressed the dim screen issue and gave us some additional options for TL that I won't get to play with until this weekend. Has anyone looked at creating a custom screen yet?

 

[jstrong]

So far, it appears to be a yes! So far this seems to be a very suitable upgrade to the IPV3li.

Interesting Who has one in stock?

 

[Clark Kent]

Ecig Avenue has the white,black and silver for 54.99, and I think there is a code out there for 10% off.

 

[Blackl1sted]

Keep up the reviews guys, I have one on order and can't wait to get it and try it out. This is my first TC device.

 

[AtmizrOpin]

vapnfagan has a first look out on the device and he didn't have a manual tcr feature in his menu on the ipv5........is this feature a firmware upgrade?

edit.......his ipv5 DOES have a manual TCR feature. he just didn't show it in his first look.

 

[WharfRat1976]

Absolutely! I will never buy another Pn4y product. The IPV4s would have been COMPLETELY upgradeable to S.S., but Pn4y simply chose NOT to, so they (they THINK) could sell more mods. NOT happening. Competition is fierce in this category, and there are manufacturers doing a MUCH better job of supporting their devices beyond launch with firmware UPGRADES. I just don't see a reason to buy this now vs. the other available choices, and I SURE don't see any reason to think they will ever improve it once bought.

Sorry Pn4y, fool me once, shame on you.. Twice ain't happenin.

X10....I love my s in watts mode....sometimes in TI mode. P4U is dead to me as well. I'm one and done.

 

[jstrong]

I just got the IPV5 and already selling the thing. I wish I would have seen the reviews later. I don't like the battery rings so I decided not to use it

 

[Marc411]

My second was delivered today and I threw an NI coil on it right away.

It metered at .15 and when I put it on the device and set it up it came in at .15 ohms. Let's hope that streak continues.

I have it set up at 33 watts and 405° and the vape is very nice and consistent. I've vaped through 3/4's of a tank and the device has been solid.

jstrong, those battery rings are supposed to be a safety feature much like the Reuleaux to keep the batteries solidly in place.