That would be awesome. I can see it working very well in future reos. However, it would be hard to retrofit to an older grand. Who knows. Maybe it wouldnt.
Sent from my Reo Grand 3.0
Sent from my Reo Grand 3.0
Iron Lung REOnauts *Sub-OHM*
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Actually it'll be pretty easy (it's on my things to do list)...if you look at how I did the lower contact on my RT Grand (Russian Tractor
), just make it much shorter and epoxy it into the delryn...you'll only be able to use flat tops after but meh, all my batts are flat tops now anyway. I use 1/4" copper rivets used to bond electrical bus bars together, they are a pretty decent grade of copper.Maybe something like this would achieve almost the same thing, avoiding arcing at the positive terminal. If the lower leaf was insulated from the upper leaf, the arcing would only occur between the 2 leaves which have a much larger surface area. Just a thought.
Saw this on Facebook today. The guy has a nemesis clone. And apparently doesn't clean it often. That black is all carbon from the arcing.
Sent from my Reo Grand 3.0
Sent from my Reo Grand 3.0
Hmmm, kinda calls into question the "What's with these Reos? I never had a problem with arcing until I got a Reo"
...really now?
...really now?
So I am still waiting for parts to try and make a "paired contacts" mod to my REO and its killing me.... I ran some VD tests a couple days ago and also compared them to my newest REO with fresh contacts and a brand new VTC5 along with threw a well known mech in for some more comparison numbers.
Cyclone AFC
Coil Resistance: 0.50 Ω
Battery @ rest: 4.02 V
Volts @ posts: 3.36 V
VD: 0.56 V
Atomic with 15A fuse mod
Coil Resistance: 0.17 Ω
Battery @ rest: 4.09 V
Volts @ posts: 3.34 V
VD: 0.75 V
Origen V2
Coil Resistance: 0.20 Ω
Battery @ rest: 4.01 V
Volts @ posts: 3.17 V
VD: 0.84 V
LP/SL/TRA Grand with 15A Fuse/ NEW VTC5 running the Atomic
Coil Resistance: 0.17 Ω
Battery @ rest: 4.12 V
Volts @ posts: 3.37 V
VD: 0.65 V
Nemesis with Atomic
Coil Resistance: 0.17 Ω
Battery @ rest: 4.09 V
Volts @ posts: 3.35 V
VD: 0.74 V
Figured I would share those with you guys and then also have something to compare to when I get a chance to try and better those numbers
I've got a big juice order coming in vapemail and now I am RDA shopping...urgh no offense to people who use clones but dropping $100+ makes you really consider all aspects of an item before pushing the purchase button.
Cyclone AFC
Coil Resistance: 0.50 Ω
Battery @ rest: 4.02 V
Volts @ posts: 3.36 V
VD: 0.56 V
Atomic with 15A fuse mod
Coil Resistance: 0.17 Ω
Battery @ rest: 4.09 V
Volts @ posts: 3.34 V
VD: 0.75 V
Origen V2
Coil Resistance: 0.20 Ω
Battery @ rest: 4.01 V
Volts @ posts: 3.17 V
VD: 0.84 V
LP/SL/TRA Grand with 15A Fuse/ NEW VTC5 running the Atomic
Coil Resistance: 0.17 Ω
Battery @ rest: 4.12 V
Volts @ posts: 3.37 V
VD: 0.65 V
Nemesis with Atomic
Coil Resistance: 0.17 Ω
Battery @ rest: 4.09 V
Volts @ posts: 3.35 V
VD: 0.74 V
Figured I would share those with you guys and then also have something to compare to when I get a chance to try and better those numbers
I've got a big juice order coming in vapemail and now I am RDA shopping...urgh no offense to people who use clones but dropping $100+ makes you really consider all aspects of an item before pushing the purchase button.
Just looking at your numbers and you've totally underlined cause and effect of ohms law... specifically how current is a major driver for both v drop and battery voltage sag... by halving the resistance of your coil you'll double the current... that doubling of the current will exacerbate any batt IR and cct R...thought there's a lot of physics at play and batt chemistry skewing the numbers but if you kept lowering your coil R you'd start to notice diminishing returns of overall power (V x A) at your coil... make sense?
Sent from my Note 3 using Tapatalk
Sent from my Note 3 using Tapatalk
I was able to pick up a much better DMM and it is what gave me these results. I understand there are many factors to take into consideration with these figures as well; battery age, battery IR (well these first two can actually be grouped together), and even the RDAs 510 contact material, etc.
What is funny is that before we had these new contacts, even with the brass shim and fuse mod I never dropped my coil resistance much lower than 0.50Ω on my REO so I did not experience nearly as much arcing or oxidation.
I am actually unsure whether my motivation to reduce the VD of the REO is solely just to create a REO with more potential than any tube style mechanical or coincidentally eliminate much of the arcing/oxidation....all i know is I started messing with my REOs and now I cant stop until I find a solution or find results that I can live with....
I do not mean to make it seem like the REO is a sub par mechanical, in fact it is quite the opposite, within its own niche of bottom feeders it is leaps ahead of many other mods. Considering the REO as a mechanical, seperate from the bottom feed aspect, it is still a very compact package and produces a vape only equaled by other "HEM."
So I got my Magma clone today. .. What a brilliant rda, not to mention one of the easiest bf mods ever... It's a beast size wise with a .... ton of build room so I pulled out my 24 awg and built .3 worth of duals...woh...It's been a while since I had to go to a delryn dt (and maybe drop my nic)
Sent using Tapacrap (I'll be suprised if you can even read this)
Sent using Tapacrap (I'll be suprised if you can even read this)
Got a Infinite Magma Clone a few days as ago as well Quigs, really liking it so far...build quality is great.
How would you go about modding it for BF? Doesn't the large drip well make it kind of weird for BF?
I've got 24G at .25 ohms right now, 6 wraps at 3/32
How would you go about modding it for BF? Doesn't the large drip well make it kind of weird for BF?
I've got 24G at .25 ohms right now, 6 wraps at 3/32
LP/SL/TRA Grand with 15A Fuse/ NEW VTC5 running the Atomic
Coil Resistance: 0.17 Ω
Battery @ rest: 4.12 V
Volts @ posts: 3.37 V
VD: 0.65 V
Typo i think.
T
Coil Resistance: 0.17 Ω
Battery @ rest: 4.12 V
Volts @ posts: 3.37 V
VD: 0.65 V
Typo i think.
T
Got a Infinite Magma Clone a few days as ago as well Quigs, really liking it so far...build quality is great.
How would you go about modding it for BF? Doesn't the large drip well make it kind of weird for BF?
I've got 24G at .25 ohms right now, 6 wraps at 3/32
Right, Infinite, that's the one I got (had to check the Ebay posting again)...ya, the quality is great, nothing "lightweight" about this bad boy, threads are perfect and smooth, I just wish China would stop making silkscreen renditions of the original laser/acid logo etches...it just looks cheezy
...It's a precision drill but not a laborious one (if that makes any sense)...unscrew the center pin and it'll all fall apart, I then clamped the pin head up in the drill press vice, trued the crap out of table and ran a basic HSS #57 through it, used my standard VG cutting oil/coolant and like butter, perfect hole shot right down the center...I didn't bother putting the white delryn post spacer back in.
I've been playing some more with it...one interesting adjustment you can make is how close to the deck airholes you put your coils...if you drop them right down, you can make the vape hot, lift them up and it cools right down (with no change in overall taste or vape production)...I think I like this thing...where the Atomic uses a little finesse to give a great vape, this thing uses brute force...mind you the the 24 awg coils at .3 sort of helps that along, but considering the post spacing and general "heavy dutyness" it just cried for it...
Edit: as far as squonking it goes, ya it's a little different, you can't really use the squonk till it bleeds method because of the way the airholes work (it'll just make a mess)...I just use the old squeeze for a 5 count thing and no worries.
Edit edit: I've been trying to find the post where it was mentioned to insert SS syringe piece into the air holes to add a lip so they are not flush with the deck...think I'll be doing that, the condensate in the airholes is, while not a deal breaker, definitely an issue.
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LP/SL/TRA Grand with 15A Fuse/ NEW VTC5 running the Atomic
Coil Resistance: 0.17 Ω
Battery @ rest: 4.12 V
Volts @ posts: 3.37 V
VD: 0.75 V
I tried to correct my original post but it wont allow me. Nice catch supertrunker, thats what I get for posting at midnight.
i received my stock of .010 brass
another reason I've posted this pic is that I've drawn 3 dif shapes for pin's that ive used.. and I just wanted to give my opinion's on each design... i'm qualified to give my opinion as I have a tobacco size tin full of old firing pin's
I will start with #3 (as i'm a little backwards like that) this is the first design I used and seemed the best as you have the full wrap of brass in a ring supporting itself from collapse as you press down on the button and has a lot of pin surface area, I found that this pin would hit strong for maybe a day and then would need cleaning, I also found that even with a short throw this pin would soften up along the area between where the button comes down to push it and the delrin screw, but often right next to where the button comes down onto the brass pin. And on a few occasion's I could smell the noalox getting heated, i'm pretty sure this pin must have been getting a lot of arcing also at the area where the pin join's back on itself to complete the 'p' shape, as this would be a shorter path for the electric!?
#2 this one also hit hard and gave good reading's on a freshly made pin but also came with a lot of visible arcing from the end of the backwards 'c' part & the edges, even with a really smooth pin tip it was high maintenance and needed double the amount of noalox to calm down the arcing. I stopped getting the soft weak part at the area where the button pushes onto the brass pin with this one but that heat transferred to the tip of the brass pin and I found myself adjusting the curl part at the end of the pin all the time to keep the throw where I liked it.
#1 is very similar to the way the original pin's that rob made for the reo's were but much longer on my vertical part and I've been using the whole width of the pin rather then a point, this one give's me the less visible arcing of all and need's the least maintenance of the 3 shapes I've used, another plus side of this design is that so long as you get the angle of that vertical part of brass just right you don't need to adjust anything(there is no brass to get compressed under the weight of the push from the button)
I also like really short throws on the button, I find im less likely to bash the button if I have a 1mm gap between where the brass pin rest's and the top of the battery, the only way to deform it would be to drop my reo on the floor(bashing the button), which would move the firing pin away from the battery not towards, so no chance of it firing on its own.. not unless you get really unlucky, but unlikely
..so, what have other people found are the best shapes?
you can also see in the picture i'm using a 15A fuse and you can also see how noalox has crept up the inside of the shrink tubing on my vtc5
another reason I've posted this pic is that I've drawn 3 dif shapes for pin's that ive used.. and I just wanted to give my opinion's on each design... i'm qualified to give my opinion as I have a tobacco size tin full of old firing pin's
I will start with #3 (as i'm a little backwards like that
) this is the first design I used and seemed the best as you have the full wrap of brass in a ring supporting itself from collapse as you press down on the button and has a lot of pin surface area, I found that this pin would hit strong for maybe a day and then would need cleaning, I also found that even with a short throw this pin would soften up along the area between where the button comes down to push it and the delrin screw, but often right next to where the button comes down onto the brass pin. And on a few occasion's I could smell the noalox getting heated, i'm pretty sure this pin must have been getting a lot of arcing also at the area where the pin join's back on itself to complete the 'p' shape, as this would be a shorter path for the electric!?#2 this one also hit hard and gave good reading's on a freshly made pin but also came with a lot of visible arcing from the end of the backwards 'c' part & the edges, even with a really smooth pin tip it was high maintenance and needed double the amount of noalox to calm down the arcing. I stopped getting the soft weak part at the area where the button pushes onto the brass pin with this one but that heat transferred to the tip of the brass pin and I found myself adjusting the curl part at the end of the pin all the time to keep the throw where I liked it.
#1 is very similar to the way the original pin's that rob made for the reo's were but much longer on my vertical part and I've been using the whole width of the pin rather then a point, this one give's me the less visible arcing of all and need's the least maintenance of the 3 shapes I've used, another plus side of this design is that so long as you get the angle of that vertical part of brass just right you don't need to adjust anything(there is no brass to get compressed under the weight of the push from the button)
I also like really short throws on the button, I find im less likely to bash the button if I have a 1mm gap between where the brass pin rest's and the top of the battery, the only way to deform it would be to drop my reo on the floor(bashing the button), which would move the firing pin away from the battery not towards, so no chance of it firing on its own.. not unless you get really unlucky, but unlikely
..so, what have other people found are the best shapes?
you can also see in the picture i'm using a 15A fuse and you can also see how noalox has crept up the inside of the shrink tubing on my vtc5
Just thinking you may have an issue with using straight brass sheet...in my attempts I found that it's lack of "spring back" caused issues. In my search for a brass feeler gauge (which I knew I had somewhere in my "shop o hell") I happened on a 12v/5A 2 pole relay, I broke it open and cut the contact leafs out of it...maybe a little light for our purposes but they had the right stuff...beryllium spring copper leaf and what looked like silver plated contact (about the size of a batts button top) fused on one end...so I went to my local commercial electronics shop and found a 30A 2 pole relay (for $5?)...oh ya baby, that's the stuff, good button feedback, a contact the same size as the pos. flat top and silver plated...that contact leaf is what's in my Russian Tractor Grand (oh, and I went back to the shop and cleaned them out of those relays...I'm good for a bit )...point is, I built the Russian Tractor as basically a platform to experiment with paired contacts and by some fluke of nature I hit it out of the park first swing (I hate it when that happens, it means my next 5 mods will be a complete disaster ) but you could just as easily stick a contact of that type (maybe not the 30A version, too big) into a Grand with little to no modding...
btw, my Sonys are doing that as well and I don't use Noalox...I think the green skin is translucence and the batt heat is sucking condensation in between the batt casing and skin...but I could be full of crap...
)...point is, I built the Russian Tractor as basically a platform to experiment with paired contacts and by some fluke of nature I hit it out of the park first swing (I hate it when that happens, it means my next 5 mods will be a complete disaster ) but you could just as easily stick a contact of that type (maybe not the 30A version, too big) into a Grand with little to no modding...btw, my Sonys are doing that as well and I don't use Noalox...I think the green skin is translucence and the batt heat is sucking condensation in between the batt casing and skin...but I could be full of crap...
It might just be me, but I'm thinking there is no solution to the whole firing pin arching situation at all. This device just wasn't made for the whole sub ohm thing. I don't think there is any device. I seem to have been seeing a few more pics out there of VTC batteries with black pitted tops from the tube guys as well. It is IMO something we are just going to have to deal with if we are going to sub ohm... JMO YMMV....
It's not the mod (Grand or otherwise)...I'm pretty much convinced that "some" VTC's have an "enhanced" arcing quality, lol...the surface of the pos. terminal is pitted on some...MattyB noted this when he looked at the surface with loupe, then I did the same and then compared their performance against my LG's and Samsung's...awesome batt, but I think Sony really dropped the ball on their QC
btw, I kinda disagree on the Grand not being made for sub-ohm...I've been running .3 24 awg duals in my Magma running Rob's stock S/O contact and a fuse all weekend with no issues...
btw, I kinda disagree on the Grand not being made for sub-ohm...I've been running .3 24 awg duals in my Magma running Rob's stock S/O contact and a fuse all weekend with no issues...
Definitely condensation creep on the VTC# series. I only started to get it when I would push those bats to below 0.80Ω and it actually got worse with the DeoxIT but the condensation I believe is only visible because of the thin material vs say an AW IMR or LG where the vinyl is much thicker and non-transparent. I am still waiting on these parts (Keystone battery trays) to start the paired contacts mod but I will be snagging some of those relays to play with as well.
Here is a pic (not as good as a jewelers loupe but gives you an idea) of the surface of a brand new VTC5 with a thin layer of DeoxIT GOLD that I have. The idea behind the paired contacts is to eliminate the VTC# series positive contact from arcing/oxidation equation. There will still need to the be contact maintenance but not nearly as much once it is done right. Believe me I understand that the instant large load is the reason why arcing, and as a result the oxidation, occurs but I do believe that increasing the surface area and consistency of the contact areas will greatly reduce these side effects of the high amperage loads.
Here is a pic (not as good as a jewelers loupe but gives you an idea) of the surface of a brand new VTC5 with a thin layer of DeoxIT GOLD that I have. The idea behind the paired contacts is to eliminate the VTC# series positive contact from arcing/oxidation equation. There will still need to the be contact maintenance but not nearly as much once it is done right. Believe me I understand that the instant large load is the reason why arcing, and as a result the oxidation, occurs but I do believe that increasing the surface area and consistency of the contact areas will greatly reduce these side effects of the high amperage loads.
unfortunately for me Quig's I read your other post on the contacts you speak of about an hour after I had payed for this brass shim, I couldn't believe it, ahh it wasn't expensive anyway ..
You are right about the bend in the brass shim, the first thing i did when it arrived was test it for spring back and it was pretty piss poor, i'm not sure what it's called but pbum i mean pdib told me of a little trick to harden it up and make it more springy by smashing it with a hammer, i didn't want the shim to thick orelse it put's pressure on the 510 post, i was aiming to get .008 from the .010... it worked out pretty well
ahh music i don't worry about arcing with the 'L' shaped pin versus a round or curved tip etc it really doesn't arc that much but ofcourse i like to noalox that baby up orelse the carbon builds up on the battery and you lose performance, its like a snowball effect getting worse quicker 
.2 or .3Ω dual's is a good adv for me, I've even bought another thing of noalox incase we get a shortage lol
thanks for the headsup on the condensation doing this to the batteries, I always thought it was my excessiveness with the noalox
..You are right about the bend in the brass shim, the first thing i did when it arrived was test it for spring back and it was pretty piss poor, i'm not sure what it's called but pbum i mean pdib told me of a little trick to harden it up and make it more springy by smashing it with a hammer, i didn't want the shim to thick orelse it put's pressure on the 510 post, i was aiming to get .008 from the .010... it worked out pretty well
ahh music i don't worry about arcing
with the 'L' shaped pin versus a round or curved tip etc it really doesn't arc that much but ofcourse i like to noalox that baby up orelse the carbon builds up on the battery and you lose performance, its like a snowball effect getting worse quicker .2 or .3Ω dual's is a good adv for me, I've even bought another thing of noalox incase we get a shortage lol
thanks for the headsup on the condensation doing this to the batteries, I always thought it was my excessiveness with the noalox
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Hi ppl,
I was wondering if adding rare magnets $0.99 Round Super Strong Rare-Earth Magnets (5-Pack) 5-pack - 5mm*1mm / perfect for use on batteries at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping add to voltage drop and also not make any difference in the arching?
my coil runs @ 0.28ohms i use Sony VTC4
Thanks
jhf
I was wondering if adding rare magnets $0.99 Round Super Strong Rare-Earth Magnets (5-Pack) 5-pack - 5mm*1mm / perfect for use on batteries at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping add to voltage drop and also not make any difference in the arching?
my coil runs @ 0.28ohms i use Sony VTC4
Thanks
jhf
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