Is gouging good for the vaping community?

[Berylanna]

Personal pride is a factor though. If you made a product and saw it go for double, wouldn't you increase the price "slightly". I understand what you're saying how the prices gradually increase. Maybe the GG was a bad example because of the political be that the region has him through as of late.

I go to Sci Fi conventions, and authors who are paid 5 cents per book and pinch pennies routinely see people selling autographed books for double or more the MSRP of the hardcover -- and the autograph was given for free of course, originally.

On the one hand, seeing what speculators can do bites. On the other hand, some authors are going to self-publishing and selling their own books at signings, for the marked price, and getting enough to live on that way. They might not have thought of it if it were not for the visibility of the after-market.

To me, it is like that song "You can't always get what you want" -- I can still vape, there's no monopoly thing there, so if someone is going to show the original designers and crafters that they did a good job, hey, maybe those artists deserve to take a bigger cut before the next big thing makes theirs obsolete.

 

[unloaded]

I'm enjoyig the best vaping of my vape career thanks to 2 Ody's and a Penelope. To me the List Price seemed high for them, but after seeing what they were going for and how fast in the Classy's I came to two conclusions. First, they must actually be pretty damn good. Second, I felt I had a money back gaurantee if they weren't for me. Knowing I could recoup my money is what convinced me to get my first one and I probably wouldn't have otherwise. For me there was a definite plus side to seeing supply/demand in action. Also there are reasonable sellers out there, just have to pay attention. I bought one Ody and the Pene from COV for retail, bought one in classys for less, trade two genny attys for a third. Traded the new one from COV for an expansion kit, which I am currently trading for a drip mode ody. Lots of good, reasonable action going on, they just don't grab ones attention like the others. Also the reasonable deals seem to take place fast and smooth so they are closed quickly and moved out of sight. This leaves the unreasonable (to me) threads hanging around and stacking up on each other, giving the perception that they are the only thing going in the classifieds. I don't think its nearly as bad as it seems.

 

[AnsonJames]

I know that when pre-order lists go up on UKVapers you'll always see people signing for two or three of whatever is being sold - it's obvious to me that some see it as business opportunity.

It sucks when there's only 20 or 30 pieces and there isn't a slot left for you.

There also used to be a non gouging policy on the old UKV site but it's gone on the new site - however, there is a policy that means you have to list the RRP at least people can see how much they're being ripped off,

 

[kwalka]

I agree 100% about the good deals happening fast and behind the scenes. A lot of times I PM and dont even post in the thread and just like that its done and gone. On that same note There is plenty of Zens that retail for $138 listed for $350. Same with the Orions etc... Now that Imeo and Zen are ramping up production it will help balance the supply/demand monster.

 

[Nurzrachit]

I have seen several posts stating they felt the vaping community was above all this. We are not the chosen few who are above it all. I have the money to buy some of those mods, and probably will at some point in the future, but refuse to do it at inflated prices. My brother in law buys and sells things that he does'nt need all day long. He goes to garage sales, Hoarder homes, abandoned storage lockers, etc. He skims off the stuff people want, sells them at inflated prices, and somehow makes enough to pay his bills. He my friends is a scumbag. Most of the good folks who come to the ECF would never dream of selling their used products at inflated prices regardless of the demand, because it is not the right thing to do. They would never buy several of a limited production mod, with intent of profit, that would be selfish. MOST FOLKS, but not all. This is a microcosm of society, not some promised land, and unfortunately we will always have to put up with my brother in law. Hope he is not reading this, if so he will probably buy all the Zens and Orions, and then our prices will REALLY be inflated. Great thread, good folks stay on the highground, the bottom feeders don't even read a thread like this.

 

[Jojobo]

that's exactly it...supply and demand...I, personally, have not sold above cost but I have purchased above retail...it's all a matter of what is important to the individual. Who are we to say what should/should not be important to an individual? who are we do deem what should be considered "worthy of collecting"...I'm not. isn't that what makes the world go round?

as for gouging...vendors are doing it/major corps are doing it/heck...our government is doing it...so the individual sales are doing it as well...does it make it right? no...do I like paying above retail? no...but what is retail? Retail is simply what the public is willing to pay for an item...then there is manufacturers suggested retail...etc...etc... who sets the bar on all of these prices? WE DO...

I understand the upset guys...I really do, but this is the nature of the beast with any economy...and the vaping world is no exception.

This topic extends so much larger than a few individuals on a vaping forum that are price gouging....
you could take this so much farther...importing cheaper than buying local? where does it end?

determine what is best for you...how badly do you want the item...what you are willing to pay...who you are willing to purchase from and know that, for those that are in the US...we live in a free country and I will take that any day!

 

[CASEACE79]

that's exactly it...supply and demand...I, personally, have not sold above cost but I have purchased above retail...it's all a matter of what is important to the individual. Who are we to say what should/should not be important to an individual? who are we do deem what should be considered "worthy of collecting"...I'm not. isn't that what makes the world go round?

as for gouging...vendors are doing it/major corps are doing it/heck...our government is doing it...so the individual sales are doing it as well...does it make it right? no...do I like paying above retail? no...but what is retail? Retail is simply what the public is willing to pay for an item...then there is manufacturers suggested retail...etc...etc... who sets the bar on all of these prices? WE DO...

I understand the upset guys...I really do, but this is the nature of the beast with any economy...and the vaping world is no exception.

This topic extends so much larger than a few individuals on a vaping forum that are price gouging....
you could take this so much farther...importing cheaper than buying local? where does it end?

determine what is best for you...how badly do you want the item...what you are willing to pay...who you are willing to purchase from and know that, for those that are in the US...we live in a free country and I will take that any day!

Actually what constitutes a retail price is the buyers cost with a keystone markup of 100%. And before you say well a lot of these people bought it and have less than a 100% markup, they aren't a business with rent, employee wages, ect. Should you be able to sell something our buy something at whatever cost you seem fit absolutely. Just because you can do something doesn't mean it's morally ok. It's not illegal for me to buy blood diamonds yet I find it morally unexceptable to do so. Just because something isn't illegal doesn't make it morally right to do. Just like I would never take away someone's freedom of speech but I don't think it's acceptable to curse out the elderly. Anyone has the right to sell anything or buy anything they want on the classifieds. But I reserve the right to buy from a decent person and sell for a decent cost. I'll be the one that's able to sleep at night knowing I helped someone out or made someone's day. It's sad that very few people see value in things like that anymore.


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[yankeebobo]

Are we talking a moral issue? A freedom issue? Or a legal issue? Gouging is not illegal. I think we all agree on that note. Moral? I would bet that everyone's definition of "moral" will vary. And as such, they execute on their freedom to charge what they want.

This is supply and demand. But it's for a luxury item. In my smoking days, I could go to vending machine at work and pay $5.00 for a pack of Marlboro's. But if I was more patient and drove 3 extra miles to Cumby's before work, I could purchase the SAME brand, SAME pack for $3.50. And at my WHOLESALE club, I could pay an average of $2.00 per pack. If you don't want to drive all the way across town, or two towns over, you may pay more for the convenience. So what's different on someone paying extra for getting a product they just don't want to wait for. You don't want to purchase at their inflated prices, dont. Don’t buy it. You have that right. But the seller is no more a fool than the buyer, or vice versa. Perhaps it’s the manufacturer who should be to blame for not being capable of a higher production rate.

Go tell the GG lover that they were foolish to spend $300 on a GGTS. They'll tell you different. Supply and demand is what this is….granted for a luxury item. I hate paying inflated prices. BUT, this is NO different to some people than collecting baseball cards. Someone WILL pay a premium for that card that wasn't produced as much. It's a rare piece. It may not be you, but someone will.

As for Retail Cost…. That’s not always the case. I don’t see gas stations as a one size fits all approach. A larger “Pride” gas station is charging the same amount per gallon of gas than a small gas station with one attendant stuck in a box. Look at the profit margin and convince me it’s 100% markup. The gas station may not be making much per gallon, but someone is. And guess who’s buying that.

 

[Jojobo]

Actually what constitutes a retail price is the buyers cost with a keystone markup of 100%. And before you say well a lot of these people bought it and have less than a 100% markup, they aren't a business with rent, employee wages, ect. Should you be able to sell something our buy something at whatever cost you seem fit absolutely. Just because you can do something doesn't mean it's morally ok. It's not illegal for me to buy blood diamonds yet I find it morally unexceptable to do so. Just because something isn't illegal doesn't make it morally right to do. Just like I would never take away someone's freedom of speech but I don't think it's acceptable to curse out the elderly. Anyone has the right to sell anything or buy anything they want on the classifieds. But I reserve the right to buy from a decent person and sell for a decent cost. I'll be the one that's able to sleep at night knowing I helped someone out or made someone's day. It's sad that very few people see value in things like that anymore.


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CASEACE79
regarding what constitutes retail....I will agree to disagree with you on this fact. it would be wonderful if this were the truth but sadly, it is not. I have also owned a brick and mortar as well as an online business. Retail is all about what the public will pay, the competition, the supply vs the demand, and how the business owner will morally run that business. (and I say morally loosely because everyone's moral compass is very different.)

As for the rest of your personal opinions, it seems you and I have the same type of moral compass. I get just as upset as the next person to purchase above retail. I get upset over the fact that people make an outlandish profit at my expense. BUT...let's face the facts...we aren't talking about blood diamonds or false imprisonment...we aren't talking about disrespecting the elderly or kicking the dog. My personal opinions on morally inept people...well, let's just leave that out of the equation because I could rant on that forever...I only WISH and prayed that our society was more ... MORAL.

please don't misunderstand my post and my personal opinions on the subject.

 

[BigErn]

You know, I think it's a fine thing to be able to buy an "in demand" RBA or PV, use it, care for it, tire of it, and sell it off in the classes for what you paid for it, or even a few extra bucks. That's not what I was talking about when I started this thread. Many of the posters grasp this, some do not. There are people out there who covet and "stalk" certain hard-to-get APVs, and I think it is fine if it makes them happy. It sometimes makes me happy! However, there are some that exploit this in such a profitable way that just seems a bit unsavory to me. Yes, this is a world where the price of something is what a buyer is willing to pay for it, but people who buy three, four, five mods or RBAs at a time, knowing there are many who would like just one for personal use, and proceed to sell these for double or triple what they paid...Well, it's not necessarily "wrong," or "evil," but it seems like a distasteful aspect that I was/am hoping would not taint the vaping community TOO much. As I write this, I have noticed a LOT of members selling some sought after items at really decent, buyer friendly prices. This pleases me. I DO understand about supply/demand, I DO understand about free-market economics, but I just hope that people don't keep taking it to the extreme on the classes the way we have seen in the past. Got a Zenesis AYS? Sell it for a decent little profit? Fine. But to see the aforementioned tendencies of exploiting the supply/demand chain for small-production items in the vaping community is not something I will ever endorse. Again, I really enjoy all of the comments people have on this, and I DO think that the ECF is a great forum to be involved with. Lots of great people here! BTW, I think it's great if some of you have HUGE collections of PVs! I have found myself somewhat mesmerized by some of the RBA and APV designs, wishing I had enough disposable income to try them! Thanks everyone! -Ern

 

[mrelwood]

Gouging is not illegal. I think we all agree on that note.

Not that I know the precise legal position even in my country, but if a person buys and sells gear for purely profit, wouldn't it be considered doing business? That would require the seller to have a small company behind the operation to pay taxes from the profits, hence making it legal. I believe that is how it could be looked at here in Finland.

On the moral side, user classifieds is generally expected to be a place for individual persons to sell stuff they no longer need. The buyer doesn't expect to read ads from a person doing business. This is clearly stated in the rules of the classified section of a local musicians forum I frequent.

Now, I don't think I'll ever be an Odysseus kind of a consumer/vaporer. I'm an eGo Twist kind of a guy. And as a new member I don't even have access to the classifieds. But I am very happy that I read this thread so I know what to look out for when I do read the classifieds later on.

I only WISH and prayed that our society was more ... MORAL.

Couldn't agree more on that part.

 

[norie09]

They should be helping one another instead of making a profit off everyone, your saving peoples lives by vaping. Vape!!!!!