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is it safe to use a .1 ohm coil on a vtc4?

Discussion in 'Mech Mods' started by goober, Oct 15, 2019.

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  1. goober

    goober Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 4, 2011
    PA
    title
     
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  2. Don29palms

    Don29palms Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2014
    joshua tree, ca
    If you have to ask the answer is no. 42amp draw on a 20amp battery is not safe.
     
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  3. Topwater Elvis

    Topwater Elvis Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Dec 26, 2012
    Texas
    Safe?, No.

    4.2v / .1Ω = 42a.
    Vtc 4 = 23a CDR cell (at best), it is never safe to exceed any cells CDR.

    It isn't 'safe' to use a mechanical at all unless you're familiar with basic battery selection and safety, understand ohms law and have a way to accurately measure resistance.
     
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  4. bombastinator

    bombastinator ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2010
    MN USA
    As @Don29palms said, no, in a mech anyway. And most of the time in anything else as well. It could theoretically be done with a regulated mod IF the voltage was kept low enough. There’s a really good chance that safe level would be too low for the device to work well though.

    there are other issues to consider as well. As ohms start to approach zero measurement gets less accurate variation over time gets more pronounced, and fractions of an ohm get more important. It’s a bad combination safety wise.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  5. greek mule

    greek mule Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 2, 2018
    Athens,Greece
    Are you using a mech right now and what is your current setup?(battery-ohms)
    If it is hybrid are you aware that you must only use atty with protruding 510 center pin?
     
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  6. greek mule

    greek mule Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 2, 2018
    Athens,Greece
    • Informative Informative x 1
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  7. Electrodave

    Electrodave LPV Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Jul 14, 2015
    Denver, CO
    I don't consider .1ohms safe on anything. Then comes the question--why does anyone want to vape at 175W? .3ohms with a 4.2V fully charged battery--59W--too hot for my tastes, but many people like it that way.
    .2ohms--88W--this is already past most peoples' tolerance.
    .1ohms--176W--do remember that batteries generally don't vent until they get REALLY hot. Don't hold on.
     
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  8. Don29palms

    Don29palms Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2014
    joshua tree, ca
    I build and sometime sell my coils. I've had people ask me to build .08-.1ohm coils. I absolutely will not do it. I won't be responsible for someone else's stupidity.
     
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  9. sonicbomb

    sonicbomb Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 17, 2015
    1187 Hundertwasser
    [​IMG]
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
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  10. Baditude

    Baditude ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Apr 8, 2012
    Ridgeway, Ohio
    No, not safe. Using an Ohms Law Calculator, a 0.1 ohm coil will have a 42 amp draw. The Sony VTC4 is just a 20 amp battery, so you'd be asking the battery to put out over twice the current of its amp rating.

    Batteries have a "pulse" rating and a "continuous discharge rating" (CDR). We ignore the pulse rating and only consider the CDR when using ohm's law calculations. The pulse rating is useless for our purposes.


    Explain it to the Vape Noob: Ohm's Law Calculations for a Mechanical Mod

    A Beginner's Guide to Your First Mechanical Mod

    Battery Basics for Mods: The Definative Battery Guide for Vaping

    Are You Using a Rewrap (Rebranded or Aftermarket) Battery?
     
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  11. bombastinator

    bombastinator ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2010
    MN USA
    Score so far:

    for: 0
    Against: 7

    UPDATE: @Punk In Drublic makes a narrow point.

    For: 0.1
    Against: 6.9
     
    • Like Like x 2
  12. Punk In Drublic

    Punk In Drublic Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Aug 28, 2018
    Toronto, ON
    All responses assume the OP is using a mechanical device – which if that is true, I would agree.

    But if using a regulated device, there is nothing wrong with a 0.1 ohm coil. If resistance is not supported by the device, it just will not fire. A regulated device separates coil from battery – the battery never see’s the coils resistance

    What becomes important is the power in which the user operates at, which for a single VTC 4 should not be higher than 60 watts, for dual VTC 4’s, 120 watts
     
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  13. bombastinator

    bombastinator ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2010
    MN USA
    A very narrow disagreement but one none the less. Not “nothing” as in nothing possible wrong. The regulated device (which iirc IS what he said he was using)would still have to be limited to what the batteries he has can safely output, and that could well be enough to make a coil that low effectively not work. {pure derp on my part here. Vtc4 is a battery not a mod. point to @Punk In Drublic }
    it would still ba safeER than a mech because there would be various cutouts to protect the user if it failed, but pure safe? No.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. Punk In Drublic

    Punk In Drublic Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Aug 28, 2018
    Toronto, ON
    Within this thread he did not state what type of device he is using. Perhaps in another thread this was mentioned but I cannot be bothered to look.

    In so many words, I stated with my above comment that the power output must be within the batteries CDR, and gave examples of 60 watts for a 20 amp single cell and 120 watts for a dual cell of the same CDR. If within those setting resistance is irrelevant assuming it is supported by the device. If it is not supported, the device will not fire.

    So explain for the sake of myself and the OP what would happen if using a 0.1 ohm coil on a regulated device?
     
  15. DaveP

    DaveP PV Master & Musician ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 22, 2010
    Central GA
    I read that as equal to, "Is it safe to drive my car at 100mph?" The speedometer goes to 120.

    Same answer that you guys gave him. Spot on.
     
  16. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All* ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 16, 2010
    So-Cal
    If you use a Mech Mod, the 1st and The Most Important Thing you have to be able to do is to be Able to Calculate How Many Amps your Build is going to Draw from your Battery(s).

    If you Can't do this, then put the Mech in a drawer and Use a Regulated Mod until you can.
     
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  17. Electrodave

    Electrodave LPV Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Jul 14, 2015
    Denver, CO
    Most regulated mods cut out at somewhere between .2 and .5ohms. So using a regulated device on this build will result in nothing.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
  18. mimöschen

    mimöschen Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 15, 2016
    This is the mech forum.
    Regulated devices can be discussed elsewhere.
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
  19. bombastinator

    bombastinator ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2010
    MN USA
    you are correct. Somewhere in my head “vtc4” got listed as a regulated mod. It’s just a battery. I’d looked that up once before even. Twice fail on my part.
    should not fire anyway. Will not if the safety systems work correctly. SafeER. 90-99.9% safer maybe? Hard to know.
    I’ve done it on a dual battery regulated mod and gotten away with it. I didn’t feel super safe though. I was using the very ageis legend I’m using right now with LG2s which have fairly similar specs. What I noticed is that 0.1 ohm was hard to measure. It got below .08 at one point according to the mod readout which isn’t that trustable at numbers that low to begin with. It could possibly been as low as .06. The vagaries of ultra low ohm ratings were starting to make themselves known. There’s a record of the whole thing around here somewhere from months and months ago. Iirc I needed ~90w+ to make the thing work ok. I could be wrong about that. On a dual battery regulated mod that’s 45w per battery. An issue though is many regulated mods have max wattages higher than any battery can produce safely. They’ll often still do it. Just not safely.
    So there are two problems:

    1: a single battery mech: no on basis of battery stats alone ignoring variances in ohms.
    2: a single battery regulated mod: softer no on the basis of the combination of battery stats and ohm variance issues.
    3: dual battery mech: softer no on the grounds of ohm variance.
    4: dual battery regulated mod (the one I actually did, and feel I got a bit lucky surviving with my hardware intact) “even softer no verging on a provisional maybe just once” on the grounds of ohm variance. The device was new at the time. It may have even cut out once or twice. I don’t remember.
    part of the issue is how safe does it have to be before it is “safe”? If that .1 ohm is a guaranteed number it can be done. The problem is there’s no way to guarantee that .1 stays .1
     
  20. Punk In Drublic

    Punk In Drublic Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Aug 28, 2018
    Toronto, ON
    I had overlooked that this was the mechanical mod section and apologise for my post on regulated devices. Would be nice if the OP could state what he is using for clarification.

    But to not take this thread off topic with the functionalities of a regulated device, @bombastinator I will PM my response.
     
    • Like Like x 2
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