"Is my build safe?" - My concerns

[xibxang]

Before I get into this, please understand that I am a solid believer that there is no such thing as a stupid question. One of the best ways to learn something new is to ask someone who knows. I will never, ever be elitist in this respect. Sharing information is a key part of making sure the human race progresses through the generations. Indeed, I myself posted a question on ECF this week because I needed to hear opinions on a 0.15 ohm build I had just made.

However, I'm really concerned about people who ask about the safety of their coil builds where it's clearly evident that they haven't used - at the very least - their V=IR formula. Now, before anyone jumps down my throat, I fully appreciate that not not everyone is mathematics savvy and that this is not an issue. I get it. If you're one of these people then I am not even as much as implying that you're stupid. Far from it. We all have our own skillsets.

That said, there are a ton of online resources that can do these calculations for you. I'm worried people don't know that these online calculators even exist. I've only been vaping for a month or so myself and it's only through some fairly heavy reading and YouTube viewing that I've learned about building my own coils and - ultimately - whether I'm being safe or not. That said, it was a friend who helped to put me on the right track from the very beginning and showed me the path I had to take in my quest for knowledge. I've been very fortunate in this respect.

I know people may not have have the same amount of free time that I have. I know that people may not have the friends that I do to show them the way (I'm not that popular btw, but you know what I'm saying) and I'm very aware that we're not all au fait with physics formulae. What I am concerned with though is how easy it is to start a fire with our APVs that carries devastating consequences. My beef in this subject doesn't carry a snobbish or elitist agenda; in fact, I don't really enjoy the concept of my fellow men and women being hurt or having their houses and/or cars burnt to a crisp.

So how do we impart this knowledge to people? Are we doing enough to make people aware of the risks involved in making coils that are designed to glow cherry-red? Am I doing enough? Am I moaning too much here? I don't want to scare people away from vaping here so I'm not a giant fan of showing pictures of maimed hands and faces. I just want people to be safe, and ultimately for people to be able to turn to the plethora of available resources to know themselves if they're vaping safely or not.

Sorry for the soap box. I just worry. Not as much as your mother does though. You should call her.

 

[GeorgeWachsmuth]

Couldn't help it....that last line had me laughing out loud.....

 

[antony73]

You're right. I've seen some online vape stores saying nothing about the safety aspect. They just sell.

In my opinion:

Every B&M should check the buyer understands safety. If not, the seller should freely teach the buyer.

An online store should send full printed instructions and safety guidelines with every Mech Mod, battery, charger etc.

Some people are not even aware that pure bones vaping carries a strict introduction to electrics. Which means that whoever sold them that kit didn't/couldn't care less.

Lastly, thumbs up to all sellers that do freely give all the before and after sales care in bucket loads

Sent from my GT-S7562 using Tapatalk

 

[Miata GT]

Only speaking for me, I am alarmed when I see a newbie asking about low sub-ohm builds. In some ways it's like the thought that if you have to ask, you shouldn't be doing it. It's like a new driver driving a 700+ hp Hellcat.

You're right, there are no stupid questions but doesn't it make more sense to learn on a more benign setup before going full throttle?

 

[Baditude]

There is no way to force B&M shops to educate customers or force them to make safe builds. They must decide to do this voluntarily on their own free will. That is unless the FDA decides to get into this aspect, or a vendor eventually gets sued after a catastrophic accident from a build that they were responsible for. Its going to happen eventually.

As members of the ECF community, we must do our part to educate those in need of it. Post links to the online calculators and possibly a short explanation of how to use one. Tips like: Always use 4.2 volts (fully charged battery) as your voltage in the formula, not 3.7 volts. Explain that the resulting current (amps) must not equal or exceed the amps (continuous discharge rate) of the battery. Include a list of batteries with their continuous discharge rate.

Ohm's Law Calculator

Battery Basics for Mods (battery amp ratings)

Coil Calculator

Ohm's Law for Dummies

 

[tj99959]

Well I will never suggest that a 0.15 ohm build is safe, because it isn't IMO.
There is as much amperage difference between a 0.15 ohm and a 0.14 ohm coil as there is between a 1 ohm coil and a 2 ohm coil.
So the change in amperage to resistance is a magnitude of 10.

The big problem IMO is that most want to think in terms of just "V=IR" when they need to be thinking in terms of thermodynamics when doing a build. V=IR is just one small part of the equation.

It also bothers me that no one wants to think about efficiency anymore. I would much rather have a battery last all day, than have to change it out every couple of hours. I would also much rather only use 3-4 ml of juice, instead of needing 20-30 ml to get through the day.

 

[Nytebreed]

Well I will never suggest that a 0.15 ohm build is safe, because it isn't IMO.
There is as much amperage difference between a 0.15 ohm and a 0.14 ohm coil as there is between a 1 ohm coil and a 2 ohm coil.
So the change in amperage is a magnitude of 10.

The big problem IMO is that most want to think in terms of just "V=IR" when they need to be thinking in terms of thermodynamics when doing a build. V=IR is just one small part of the equation.

^That

Plus the amount of modification required to just about any commercial atty to get the airflow required to use such a low build anywhere near it's potential is extensive.

Vaping unregulated is an equation, ohms law is only part. The lower the ohms the more complex the equation becomes, and in the end it must balance. Otherwise if your lucky your vaping experience will suck, if not your on the news and in the hospital.

 

[Stringplucker]

I belong to a number of vaping based FB pages. Every time I see someone ask about a sub ohm build, I ask them if they've been vaping long. The answer is usually "Yeah, I started this 3 days ago after watching some Youtub videos".

I really wish they could hear the sound of the double facepalm I do when they say that they don't care about ohms, watts, volts, etc., that they just want to blow killer clouds.

Instead of snarkiness, I normally send them to this site for proper education and answers.

 

[Verb]

Even with knowledge of ohm's law there can be disaster. The main issue is folks not reading the documentation that should have come with their ohm meter. You need to know the precision and error range and use the smallest possible resistance that the coil could be not just what the ohm meter displays. If it displays out to .001 you're most likely good and you have a high end meter. Many folks super subbing with meters that just don't have the tolerances to trust that low.

 

[olderthandirt]

The structure and tone of the OP's post as well as the response posts makes this thread a classic example of sane communication.

Sticky Worthy!

 

[GeorgeWachsmuth]

The sad thing is.....we can provide the information, the resources and guidance to vape in a safe way and there are folks that will continue to be unsafe and stupid about it. This will continue to be true no matter how clear and simple you make it. Unfortunately their carelessness not only affects them but the vaping community at large. Will I stop because of this? No...but I also will not have expectations that All people will do the right thing. This is true in many other areas than vaping safety.

 

[Fizzpop]

My biggest concern with ultra-low Ohm setups is that people don't understand that every measurement you make has a margin of error. There is no way to get away from this, it is a reality of the universe. You can make this margin smaller, through increasingly expensive lab-grade equipment, but the error is inherent in any measurement. And it is worth noting the tools we use to measure our coils are decidedly middle of the road when it comes to accuracy. Equipment also tends to be less accurate at the extremes of measurements, which is why they make expensive special equipment for measuring very low resistances

That coil that is reading 1.6 Ohms? Well, it could be 1.7 Ohms, or 1.5 Ohms. It could even be 1.4 Ohms. Now at those resistances, you have some room at the bottom; your 1.6 Ohm coil is going to be just as safe at 1.4 Ohms. When, however, you get into very low Ohm builds, you get dangerously close to the floor. A coil that you measure as 0.20 Ohm could be 0.08 Ohms in reality and this is where things get dangerous.

One doesn't ever have a 1.2 Ohm coil. You have a measurement of 1.2 Ohms and that should really be read as "1.2 Ohms +/- 0.1 Ohms." None of this even begins to get into how well you took the measurement in the first place which can also throw your results off by a great deal.

 

[Skeebo]

There is no way to force B&M shops to educate customers. They must decide to do this voluntarily on their own free will. That is unless the FDA decides to get into this aspect or a vendor gets sued after a catastrophic accident from a build that they were responsible for.

As members of the ECF community, we must do our part to educate those in need of it. Post links to the online calculators and possibly a short explanation of how to use one. Tips like: Always use 4.2 volts (fully charged battery) as your resistance in the formula, not 3.7 volts. Explain that the resulting current (amps) must not equal or exceed the amps (continuous discharge rate) of the battery. Include a list of batteries with their continuous discharge rate.

Ohm's Law Calculator

Battery Basics for Mods (battery amp ratings)

Coil Calculator

Ohm's Law for Dummies

You've imparted a lot of great advice my way. Your blogs are a valuable resource for me when I do decide to get into RBA/RDA's and/or mech mods. I've learned quite a bit about things like battery safety in regards to not exceeding the continuous discharge rate, using the Ohm's Law Calculator, etc..

But, you know what's frustrating? My best friend who is getting into mech mods and low ohm coil builds basically doesn't want to hear about any of it. I've tried sending him links to your blog, links to both online calculators, and he's dismissive to it all. I know he doesn't know what he's doing. He still thinks if he builds two 1.0 ohm coils on a deck it's a 2.0 ohm coil build because 1+1=2.

 

[Baditude]

You've imparted a lot of great advice my way. Your blogs are a valuable resource for me when I do decide to get into RBA/RDA's and/or mech mods. I've learned quite a bit about things like battery safety in regards to not exceeding the continuous discharge rate, using the Ohm's Law Calculator, etc..

But, you know what's frustrating? My best friend who is getting into mech mods and low ohm coil builds basically doesn't want to hear about any of it. I've tried sending him links to your blog, links to both online calculators, and he's dismissive to it all. I know he doesn't know what he's doing. He still thinks if he builds two 1.0 ohm coils on a deck it's a 2.0 ohm coil build because 1+1=2.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't force him to drink it.

 

[Verb]

You've imparted a lot of great advice my way. Your blogs are a valuable resource for me when I do decide to get into RBA/RDA's and/or mech mods. I've learned quite a bit about things like battery safety in regards to not exceeding the continuous discharge rate, using the Ohm's Law Calculator, etc..

But, you know what's frustrating? My best friend who is getting into mech mods and low ohm coil builds basically doesn't want to hear about any of it. I've tried sending him links to your blog, links to both online calculators, and he's dismissive to it all. I know he doesn't know what he's doing. He still thinks if he builds two 1.0 ohm coils on a deck it's a 2.0 ohm coil build because 1+1=2.

How does he know it's a 1 ohm single coil without an ohm meter? If he's using an ohm meter, after he puts the 2nd 1 ohm coil in parallel, it should be pretty obvious that 1+1=\2 when adding parallel resisters.

Use the illustration of one line of people being routed to several bank tellers. With one teller the line moves slower than 2 tellers.

If one bank teller takes 4 min per customer (resistance) adding a second bank teller with the same rate of service (resistance) would reduce the rate of service for the customers in line to 2 min per customer. 4+4 can equal 2.

 

[Fizzpop]

How does he know it's a 1 ohm single coil without an ohm meter? If he's using an ohm meter, after he puts the 2nd 1 ohm coil in parallel, it should be pretty obvious that 1+1=\2 when adding parallel resisters.

Use the analogy of one line of people being routed to several bank tellers. With one teller the line moves slower than 2 tellers.

He is probably using the "x number of coils is y resistance" method I see far too often in YouTube videos. Someone at a B&M or some idiot friend told them that "6 coils is one Ohm bro." The ignorance and resulting carelessness out there is frightening.

 

[GeorgeWachsmuth]

Well...if he is using a meter he will see his error. But...I'm guessing he is not.

 

[Bunnykiller]

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't force him to drink it.

lol but you can give it an enima

 

[Bunnykiller]

You've imparted a lot of great advice my way. Your blogs are a valuable resource for me when I do decide to get into RBA/RDA's and/or mech mods. I've learned quite a bit about things like battery safety in regards to not exceeding the continuous discharge rate, using the Ohm's Law Calculator, etc..

But, you know what's frustrating? My best friend who is getting into mech mods and low ohm coil builds basically doesn't want to hear about any of it. I've tried sending him links to your blog, links to both online calculators, and he's dismissive to it all. I know he doesn't know what he's doing. He still thinks if he builds two 1.0 ohm coils on a deck it's a 2.0 ohm coil build because 1+1=2.

he needs to understand the difference between series and parallel circuits, series coils will be 1+1 = 2 but parallel is 1 divided by 2 ( .5) ( 1 ohm each coil 2 coils)

 

[Skeebo]

He just ordered an ohm reader from Fast Tech last week so he'll probably see some of the light soon.