It's a great point.
They can't ban or extra tax batteries.
They can't ban or extra tax electronic parts.
Only actual nic juice left.
My opinion on regulating, etc.
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It's a great point.
They can't ban or extra tax batteries.
They can't ban or extra tax electronic parts.
Only actual nic juice left.
I know that nicotine is highly toxic (meaning it can kill you quickly) in high doses. I also know that nicotine is not very dangerous in low doses. There are still dangers in low doses, but not more than drinking alcohol, etc.
Do I want to take the risk and make my own juice without knowing what the heck I am doing? No. Could I research how to make my own juice and do it myself safely? I believe so, but I would still be nervous, at least until I had done it several times. Could other idiots make their own juice and kill themselves because they have no idea what they are doing...very much so.
I would rather have the average person (including me) buy juice from a reputable company that has standards imposed on them...ensuring a quality product that is safe (as safe as nicotine juice can be anyway).
The more I think about it, realistically, the more I think these are going to be regulated as a tobacco product. Will there be taxes on it? I don't know...that's a waiting game. The biggest draw back that I see to most people is that I am pretty darn sure the FDA would impose the same regulations regarding the selling of flavors that they have imposed on tobacco...stating that nice flavors appeal to minors (this is already one of the biggest arguments against electronic cigarettes). In this case, the work around is to get the unflavored juice, made from a reputable company, and add your own flavor. Adding flavor to the juice is not likely to get anyone killed. Making your own juice (putting the nicotine in yourself) has a pretty good chance of getting someone kiled (not saying you, reader, but someone that makes a mistake, wants to see how much they can add and how it will effect them (high?), or someone that doesn't do the research on how to make juice safely).
I'm not very informed...what other drawbacks would there be if e-cig juice was regulated as a tobacco product. I'm not trying to argue with anyone, I am actually wanting to learn, from your knowledge, what negative effects tobacco regulations would have on electronic cigarettes.
Another one I just thought of is that they would be labeled in the tobacco "group", adding to the guilty by association problem.
Thoughts?
Do I want to take the risk and make my own juice without knowing what the heck I am doing? No. Could I research how to make my own juice and do it myself safely? I believe so, but I would still be nervous, at least until I had done it several times. Could other idiots make their own juice and kill themselves because they have no idea what they are doing...very much so.
I would rather have the average person (including me) buy juice from a reputable company that has standards imposed on them...ensuring a quality product that is safe (as safe as nicotine juice can be anyway).
The more I think about it, realistically, the more I think these are going to be regulated as a tobacco product. Will there be taxes on it? I don't know...that's a waiting game. The biggest draw back that I see to most people is that I am pretty darn sure the FDA would impose the same regulations regarding the selling of flavors that they have imposed on tobacco...stating that nice flavors appeal to minors (this is already one of the biggest arguments against electronic cigarettes). In this case, the work around is to get the unflavored juice, made from a reputable company, and add your own flavor. Adding flavor to the juice is not likely to get anyone killed. Making your own juice (putting the nicotine in yourself) has a pretty good chance of getting someone kiled (not saying you, reader, but someone that makes a mistake, wants to see how much they can add and how it will effect them (high?), or someone that doesn't do the research on how to make juice safely).
I'm not very informed...what other drawbacks would there be if e-cig juice was regulated as a tobacco product. I'm not trying to argue with anyone, I am actually wanting to learn, from your knowledge, what negative effects tobacco regulations would have on electronic cigarettes.
Another one I just thought of is that they would be labeled in the tobacco "group", adding to the guilty by association problem.
Thoughts?
The possibility of someone mixing the wrong level of nicotine with a flavoring is very real. I have a 100mg juice that I bought to mix down with straight PG or VG to yield a safer 1-36mg nic juice. In the wrong hands it could be deadly if ingested as is.
That's why I think regulating the manufacture, distribution, importation, sale of nicotine e-juice is the only regulation I am for.
The other parts (sans-juice) of an e-cig are just hardware, nothing more, nothing less. So the point of my previous post was to point out how would they regulate anything BUT the nic juice? Oh they could, but when we can make our own mods (IF we can get the atty's & carts w/o regs/tax/etc.
"What is more likely is that we will discover the obvious: inhaling ANYTHING that isn't pure air into your lungs, is worse for you than pure air. Duh."
There is only one problem with this statement, we don't inhale pure air. Unless you are on a ventilator and receiving O2, the air that you breathe on a daily basis is chock full of all kinds of pollutants, a large portion of which are carcenogenic.
There is only one problem with this statement, we don't inhale pure air. Unless you are on a ventilator and receiving O2, the air that you breathe on a daily basis is chock full of all kinds of pollutants, a large portion of which are carcenogenic.
Pure air, not pure oxygen. Air dose include all sorts of stuff that can potentially harm you - even very clean air. But it's what our lungs are designed to deep with. Pure oxygen (while it's good for you in small doses and short time frames) not as much. And vapor, not as much.
Though vapor is certainly infinitely better than smoke.
Though vapor is certainly infinitely better than smoke.
I completely agree with you t9c.
I was just wondering what people's thoughts were on the negative effects of nicotine juice being regulated by the FDA as a form of tobacco with the same regulations analog cigarette have.
If that goes through, other than them banning the sell of flavored juice (which I understand would be a big concern for many, but this be easily worked around by adding your own flavor to the juice), what problem would those of you on this forum have with it?
The equipment used to turn the e-juice into vapor should not be regulated or banned...it is o.k. to own a .... as long as you only smoke tobacco through it.
I was just wondering what people's thoughts were on the negative effects of nicotine juice being regulated by the FDA as a form of tobacco with the same regulations analog cigarette have.
If that goes through, other than them banning the sell of flavored juice (which I understand would be a big concern for many, but this be easily worked around by adding your own flavor to the juice), what problem would those of you on this forum have with it?
The equipment used to turn the e-juice into vapor should not be regulated or banned...it is o.k. to own a .... as long as you only smoke tobacco through it.
If we could drop all of the tobacco related terms from vaporizing nicotine, it might take some of the sting out of leaving it alone. We call it an e-cig, e-pipe, e-cigar. But "they" dont call it a stick of cigarette gum or a cig-patch or, cig-pill. Avoid the relationship, since the actual usage is not burning or ingesting of tobacco. The same approach as far as the juice names are concerned, give up the cigarette, and slightly juvenile names no matter how acurate they are. Make it an adult product that is not a cigarette at all.
Get my drift?
Monitor the nicotine, and its QC, weights, and measurements. Focus on the liquid itself as though it were as desirable and acceptible as a bottle of wine.
Get my drift?
Monitor the nicotine, and its QC, weights, and measurements. Focus on the liquid itself as though it were as desirable and acceptible as a bottle of wine.
Since I DIY my own juice...mostly, then I wouldn't care about regulated premixed, but I'm sure more than a few suppliers would.
I think that when the FDA regulates nic juice, BT will stand to gain a lot more profit. Like another poster pointed out, it's not a big stretch to imagine Phillip Morris transitioning from a tobacco supplier to a nic juice supplier. I suppose they already are, but it would certainly make a lot of anti's (and FDA) happy if they gave up smoked & oral tobacco.
I really like this idea. In fact when folks ask me what I'm smoking, I kindly correct them and say "I'm vaping, not smoking".
That's not really true, it's just that nobody cares enough to do anything about it.
On the other hand, people ARE going to care about our electronic cigarettes.
We already know that to be true.
And the FDA is in fact, as we speak, confiscating batteries and atomizers along with the juice.
Why are we as a group allowing the government to walk all over us and regulate it at all? If as a group we stood up, we would have a chance, but, not everyone will fight as hard as we need to. Nope, just as with antything else it's "oh woe is me, they are taking things from me but I can't prevent it so, oh well, i'll just do something else." Well we all need to band together and tell then NO I will not allow you to take one more thing from me, good for em or not, it's MY choice and you will NOT control me." But that won't happen so, get ready to go back to analogs or go cold turkey since we all know pil;ls, gums and patches don't work.
Just look at the petition linked in my signature...
In nearly four months all we have is just over 3,000 signatures.
That's pathetic.
I am against regulation and for information. I believe any product sold for human consumption should have a label addressing the possible risks. If proper testing has not been done, the label needs to reflect that. Ultimately, it is up to the consumer to decide what they will or will not consume. The government has no business dictating what I can put into my own body. I'll now step down from my Libertarian soap box.
First of all, I didnt start vaping to quit smoking, I just wanted to get the same feeling of smoking in a cheaper way. I can live without nicotine, I have done it in the past, what I couldnt seem to live without is the act of smoking, the social aspects of smoking, seeing the smoke etc etc.
Enter ecigs: wow I still get my nicotine and all the other stuff I would miss from not smoking, without all the carcinogens from real cigs, great! I also get to save myself about 4 to 500.00 a month, VERY NICE!
Now I agree tests need to be run, by impartial scientists or consumer groups or whatever. I have no doubt that pv's are much safer then real cigs, and I already know I breathe better then I did when smoking, but do the tests anyway, so that everyone knows.
But I am against regulating by any current gov't administration. Why? This will only lead to taxation, and higher prices of all components of PV's. Now if we could create our own regulatory commision, based on the results of these tests that really havent been done yet, and regulate the important aspects that need regulating, such as what is in the pre made eliquids, and not selling or advertising to children, then I would be all for it.
I do NOT under any circumstances want to end up spending the same amount of money per day, month, or year, that I previously spent on cigarettes, because big pharma, or big tobacco, now controls and sells my pv supplies, or because the gov't has decided to tax the components to unaffordability. If that becomes the reality, I will turn to the black market and take my chances, if that is not possible, I am sure I would go back to smoking, so I would be screwed either way.
Enter ecigs: wow I still get my nicotine and all the other stuff I would miss from not smoking, without all the carcinogens from real cigs, great! I also get to save myself about 4 to 500.00 a month, VERY NICE!
Now I agree tests need to be run, by impartial scientists or consumer groups or whatever. I have no doubt that pv's are much safer then real cigs, and I already know I breathe better then I did when smoking, but do the tests anyway, so that everyone knows.
But I am against regulating by any current gov't administration. Why? This will only lead to taxation, and higher prices of all components of PV's. Now if we could create our own regulatory commision, based on the results of these tests that really havent been done yet, and regulate the important aspects that need regulating, such as what is in the pre made eliquids, and not selling or advertising to children, then I would be all for it.
I do NOT under any circumstances want to end up spending the same amount of money per day, month, or year, that I previously spent on cigarettes, because big pharma, or big tobacco, now controls and sells my pv supplies, or because the gov't has decided to tax the components to unaffordability. If that becomes the reality, I will turn to the black market and take my chances, if that is not possible, I am sure I would go back to smoking, so I would be screwed either way.
The people of the US are sadly not what they were 250 years ago. Few can fathom taking the time out from their everyday comforts to work together to throw off the tyranny and corruption that's been growing in this country for years, not that things were ever perfect.
Roles have reversed from what was intended. The government no longer serves the people. Instead the people are slaves to the dictates of the government. The ballot box? Who do you get to vote for in most cases? A candidate who has been annointed by their moneyed sponsers and party machine and properly propagandized. The exceptions are rare.
The citizens don't run this country. Money does. The people have for the most part let the media think for them and grown too comfy and lazy to do anything about anything other than accumulating more money and more stuff so they can keep up what the media tells them the measure of success is.
Nothing will change and will only grow worse until we lowly citizens wake up and work together to take our government back from the current two corrupt political parties.
Just my own opinion.
Good luck avoiding regulation when the "drug" and thats what nicotene is, is being used. I think if it gets the attention that it likely will, the only way "they" will be happy is by prepackaged cartomizers. They will likely be more expensive, harder to find, and much lower quality than we are using now. just my opinion.
Someone got some slush fund money to buy some votes here? Maybe there is and maybe there isnt. Still between insurance companies, BT, BP, and general fear propaganda I doubt we'd make the little league team.
Best keep it down low, theres plenty of politicians would love to pick up the media coverage by being the "good, the honest, the concerned". Again just my opinion.
Someone got some slush fund money to buy some votes here? Maybe there is and maybe there isnt. Still between insurance companies, BT, BP, and general fear propaganda I doubt we'd make the little league team.
Best keep it down low, theres plenty of politicians would love to pick up the media coverage by being the "good, the honest, the concerned". Again just my opinion.
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I signed that thing before I even got my e-cig - because it works for enough people that even if it didn't work for me, it's miles and miles above anything the FDA offers.
And to the libertarians in the room, I agree with you that the state of the American people, and what they allow to happen, is rather sickening. I remember being a small child (maybe 4 or 5), and having a conversation with my father about my civic duty to be loud and proud about doing what's right, and to have a collar tightly around the neck of the government. I think that is a truly American ethos which is being lost to much of my generation. And that is incredibly sad.
At the same time, I am not "submitting" to the idea of some basic regulations, any more than I "submit" to the idea of basic food safety.
I think juice suppliers should have to show they are using consumable grade ingredients, and that their nicotine levels are as advertised. I think this is just basic, bare minimum standards to prevent people from getting seriously ill, like we have seen happen on rare occasion.
Those were not cases of people choosing what to put in their bodies - those were cases of people NOT KNOWING what they were putting in their bodies. And unfortunately, word of mouth isn't good enough.
Let's take the recent example of Rath juice. At one point, he was a very good and highly-regarded supplier. But later, as he became entangled in a gambling problem and god knows what else, his production standards dropped dramatically. I believe at one point he was having his wife, who has no knowledge of how to make juice, do it for him.
No one knows what was really in those later mixes. They could have killed someone.
And yet, for a while, Rath was highly regarded. I'm sure there were vets that pointed newbies towards Rath juice, because they had good experiences. And they must be kicking themselves for it now.
Relying completely on word of mouth could have had some really dire consequences. And nobody knew at first. Even the vets didn't know.
If we had some really basic regulations in place, things like this would be far less likely to happen.
And to the libertarians in the room, I agree with you that the state of the American people, and what they allow to happen, is rather sickening. I remember being a small child (maybe 4 or 5), and having a conversation with my father about my civic duty to be loud and proud about doing what's right, and to have a collar tightly around the neck of the government. I think that is a truly American ethos which is being lost to much of my generation. And that is incredibly sad.
At the same time, I am not "submitting" to the idea of some basic regulations, any more than I "submit" to the idea of basic food safety.
I think juice suppliers should have to show they are using consumable grade ingredients, and that their nicotine levels are as advertised. I think this is just basic, bare minimum standards to prevent people from getting seriously ill, like we have seen happen on rare occasion.
Those were not cases of people choosing what to put in their bodies - those were cases of people NOT KNOWING what they were putting in their bodies. And unfortunately, word of mouth isn't good enough.
Let's take the recent example of Rath juice. At one point, he was a very good and highly-regarded supplier. But later, as he became entangled in a gambling problem and god knows what else, his production standards dropped dramatically. I believe at one point he was having his wife, who has no knowledge of how to make juice, do it for him.
No one knows what was really in those later mixes. They could have killed someone.
And yet, for a while, Rath was highly regarded. I'm sure there were vets that pointed newbies towards Rath juice, because they had good experiences. And they must be kicking themselves for it now.
Relying completely on word of mouth could have had some really dire consequences. And nobody knew at first. Even the vets didn't know.
If we had some really basic regulations in place, things like this would be far less likely to happen.
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