Is the idea of regulation inherently bad?

[inmortus]

It's not my intention to troll! I would love to hear some opinions on this. I am new to vaping. So far I love it. I haven't smoked analogues in a few weeks, and I am feeling good. However, the more I get into it, the more I do find myself thinking if the idea of regulating vaping is inherently bad... Here's the thing: it seems to be by all accounts that vaping is "healthier" or "less harmful" than smoking. However, lately I find myself thinking:

• The fact is that I am taking Nicotine, and nicotine is not good. However, there are not too many (or any) studies about nicotine intake through vaping and its effects... shouldn't there be? I mean, I vape and I feel it is healthier, but I have really no scientific data on its mid term or long term effects. Should we not want these studies to take place?
• I also wonder about what we are all vaping... I mean, we are basically trusting all the companies that produce juices to actually do a good job, use "quality" materials, have a good "quality control" and such, but we really have no idea as no one is keeping watch... What is there to stop a company from say adding extra chemicals (I don't know, for flavor or whatever) to the juices we buy? How do we know they are not (let me exaggerate) giving us juices in recycled bottles taken from hospitals' garbage cans?
• I know, I am exaggerating, but the thing is that the fact that a juice "tastes good" doesn't necessarily mean that it meets what we would hope are minimum standards in quality, sanitation, etc...
• Of course, cigarretes (analogues) are terrible, but the fact is that since they are regulated, they are pretty "standard" in a way. They are all produced in the same way... I wonder whether the idea of regulating the production (for example) of juices is bad inherently....

Thoughts?

 

[hvac999]

Regulation is not bad if you like paying $50-$100 for 10ml of e-juice.

 

[Jadesrayne]

studies are great but regulations could be very bad. In all honesty price would go up the ability to DIY would go away etc. Then you have where we can vape, nic levels, what look is allowed sin taxes. etc.. point is small regulations lead to big ones. If you worry about what is in your juice than DIY.

 

[Trick]

Regulation in itself isn't a bad thing. Forced regulation to a set of standards the likes of which the U.S. Government usually concocts? Pretty much guaranteed to be a bad thing.

The FDA has shown that they want to ban e-cigarettes, even though they have no valid reason to do so. These are not the guys I want forcing a set of ignorant standards on the industry.

 

[meli.]

I think this industry needs regulation, it's still very young but growing fast.
What I don't want is a bunch cowboy's selling junk juice for a Fast Buck making people ill and the Whole industry gets rammed for it.

We have already established that most Vapers are agreeable to Fair and Reasonable regulation. It makes sense and benefits everyone's safety. What the FDA will propose is anyone's guess. Until then support CASAA, sign petitions, try and do your bit to encourage a Favourable outcome for All vapers.

 

[the_vape_nerd]

there was a move here several months ago to at least get the juice vendors to self-regulate...some vendors joined but not nearly enough...it was very short sighted in my opinion to do that

had they as a group...brought their self regulation standards to the fda as a negotiating tool, i think they'd be in a much better spot than they are right now

as it stands, i think bottled juice will disappear completely...the fda will say ...well we can monitor them better in pre-filled cartomizers and in the interest of public safety...blah blah blah

 

[Uncle Willie]

there was a move here several months ago to at least get the juice vendors to self-regulate...some vendors joined but not nearly enough...it was very short sighted in my opinion to do that

had they as a group...brought their self regulation standards to the fda as a negotiating tool, i think they'd be in a much better spot than they are right now

as it stands, i think bottled juice will disappear completely...the fda will say ...well we can monitor them better in pre-filled cartomizers and in the interest of public safety...blah blah blah

Bingo .. Best Post I've Read All Day Award ..

 

[SilentScreams]

It's not my intention to troll! I would love to hear some opinions on this. I am new to vaping. So far I love it. I haven't smoked analogues in a few weeks, and I am feeling good. However, the more I get into it, the more I do find myself thinking if the idea of regulating vaping is inherently bad... Here's the thing: it seems to be by all accounts that vaping is "healthier" or "less harmful" than smoking. However, lately I find myself thinking:

• The fact is that I am taking Nicotine, and nicotine is not good. However, there are not too many (or any) studies about nicotine intake through vaping and its effects... shouldn't there be? I mean, I vape and I feel it is healthier, but I have really no scientific data on its mid term or long term effects. Should we not want these studies to take place?
• I also wonder about what we are all vaping... I mean, we are basically trusting all the companies that produce juices to actually do a good job, use "quality" materials, have a good "quality control" and such, but we really have no idea as no one is keeping watch... What is there to stop a company from say adding extra chemicals (I don't know, for flavor or whatever) to the juices we buy? How do we know they are not (let me exaggerate) giving us juices in recycled bottles taken from hospitals' garbage cans?
• I know, I am exaggerating, but the thing is that the fact that a juice "tastes good" doesn't necessarily mean that it meets what we would hope are minimum standards in quality, sanitation, etc...
• Of course, cigarretes (analogues) are terrible, but the fact is that since they are regulated, they are pretty "standard" in a way. They are all produced in the same way... I wonder whether the idea of regulating the production (for example) of juices is bad inherently....

Thoughts?

Regulations are bad when fools accept cash to tell lies about something so that it gets regulated. Regulations are bad when the government decides it wants to tax me more because I have an addiction and found a healthier way to fill it.

Currently a lot of the juice suppliers are small home based. But not all I'm sure. The one's I have had dealings with actually make it to order. They don't have it premade and stockpiled waiting for someone to order it. I like small business and will support when I can. A good juice supplier will tell you exactly whats in their juice.

Keep the government away from juice supplier. I am happy with my juice supplier's. If the government sticks its greedy hands in their pockets most of these guys will go out of business. Also there will be more added crap to it if it get regulated. I mean cigarettes are supposed to be tobacco but big tobacco adds lots and lots of chemicals to it. This is all government approved.

If you want to buy government approved regulated juice that is by all rights your choice. But please leave me out of it.

 

[Hulamoon]

Nicotine has been used for treatment of Parkinson's and Alzheimer's. It is addictive, but not bad for you.

PG is an ingredient in asthma inhalers.

On the other hand, cigarettes have over 4,000 chemicals in them, including MOAI's, arsenic and ammonia. They are both approved and regulated.

I'll take my chances.

 

[antfuzz]

AEMSA | American E-Liquid Manufacturing Standards Association

AEMSA President Testifies at FDA Hearing

AEMSA President Testifies at FDA Hearing | AEMSA

 

[Leatherneck]

The idea of regulation isn't bad. The reality often is.

 

[SilentScreams]

The idea of regulation isn't bad. The reality often is.

Well said I salute you.

 

[inmortus]

That's pretty much what I was trying to say... I completely agree with the fact that the way it will most likely be done is not the way to go and it is detrimental on many levels. But that does not mean that the idea is inherently bad...

 

[ClippinWings]

Regulation for safety/consistancy... not bad.

Regulation to further the agendas of Big Tobacco & Big Pharma, like the FDA is after... is very bad.

THE ONLY regulation that realistically makes sense is the regulation of INGREDIENTS and accurate nicotine level in Juice.

The result of which could be a small fee, resulting in maybe a 10% jump in Juice prices..

Which to me would be Acceptable.

However, any ban of Battery systems, connectors, juice delivery systems(atomizers, carts, etc.) or the forced use of cigarette looking designs... is a non-starter and only proves that the reason for regulation is not public health and safety but protecting the financial interests of Big Tobacco and Big Pharma.

 

[maustypsu]

The FDA allows a certain amount of rat poo in your cereal. Sorry, had to get that in.

I am sure we can all agree that we would love to know that our juice is clean, produced within a tolerance of how we ordered it (PG/VG, nicotine content, etc) and consistently manufactured. However, I'm not sure regulation will ensure that. I am pretty sure it would disallow something (or many things) that we would not want to lose. I'm also pretty sure that it will cost us more which we don't want.

 

[ninfreak]

yea regulations would be bad.....you would be stuck with crappy pre-filled cartos, no flavored juice (only tobb and menthol) prices would skyrocket. you wouldn't be able to buy juice at all......just watch what happens if it is regulated and big tobb has all control over it.

 

[Trick]

The FDA allows a certain amount of rat poo in your cereal. Sorry, had to get that in.

And, you know what? If there's a level of rat poo that's known to not be a health problem, that's great. It's exactly what they should be doing.

What they're trying to do with e-cigs is say that no matter what level of "bad" stuff is in them, even if they can't show any health hazards whatsoever, that they need to step in to stop them. That's overreaching, and they've shown they want to do that. Unless and until they show signs of actually using reason, they have no business coming near our stuff.

 

[Ladypixel]

My two cents' worth:

Nicotine is a naturally-occurring substance. It's in tomatoes and potatoes (albeit in smaller quantities than it is in cigarettes or most juices). Yes, it's addictive. But it is not the only substance in commercial tobacco that is addictive. The tars are just as addictive, and the tars are what made me hack up brownish guck in the morning after 25+ years of smoking.

It's been about a year since I quit cigarettes (a few more days and it'll be a full year), and I don't have morning cough, I can breathe well enough that I'll be doing my second half-marathon this year in a couple weeks (which I couldn't have possibly done while I was still a smoker), and I can smell and taste properly again. To me, the health benefits of giving up the other 4000+ chemicals in the cigarettes was well worth the change.

As to the ingredients in eliquid: you can buy lab-made nicotine solution, medical-grade VG or PG, and you can buy food-grade flavor additives from a number of vendors (although if you want one with full lab notes on everything they do, look at Perfumer's Apprentice). Make your own eliquid if you don't trust the vendors you're purchasing from to give you safe ingredients. It's not hard to do.

In my opinion, the regulatory process in the US is flawed. After all, cigarettes are regulated, and yet they still kill you. Look at the crazymaking out there about GMOs in food... and to think that in the 60's and 70's, we all thought that genetically-modified stuff was so much healthier for you. Etc, etc.

We're human. We'll make mistakes. But I think in this circumstance, this isn't a mistake. This is, yes, a small mom-and-pop industry... but I sincerely doubt that the quality sellers are putting making a buck above the customer, especially the ECF vendors. I've talked to a lot of eliquid makers, and it's my general experience that they're in it to deliver a high-quality product, to ensure their customers are happy, and to make a worthwhile living doing it. As a retailer for many years, I can appreciate that and respect that... and that's why I do still occasionally buy juice from sellers who I trust.

Do I think regulation will destroy the industry? No, but it'll probably destroy the mom-and-pop vendors who provide the quality stuff, and then we'll see ads about how GinormoChain's eliquid is the healthiest ever... the same way that our parents saw Chesterfield cigarette advertisements saying that they were healthy and made life complete. And that serves no good purpose in the long run.

 

[hesta]

My train of thought (I am really new to this so apologies in advance if I'm way off the mark)

Regulation can lead to proof of effectiveness and testing to be required - especially so if the case of vaporisers and e juice being classified as a 'medical product' arises - this is what I feel would drive the small vendors out of the market were it to arrive, as testing and providing this proof is likely to cost big money. Now, the companies with big money (and an interest in the market) are Big Tobacco and Big Pharma. In my mind this will lead to only one thing - juices that comply with regulation only being produced by the companies that strangled the market to begin with. Win/win for those guys, as people are now lead to use cigarettes, their NRT or juice produced by either of them. Wouldn't surprise me to see Marlboro juice on the shelves should regulation increase the price enough to give the big guys enough profit on them!

Again, apologies if I am way out!

I am still a firm believer in that adults should be allowed to make the decision themselves, I can drink alcohol, which is bad for me, I can smoke cigarettes, which are bad for me. Regulation in the form of health advisories, age restrictions and the like can only be a good thing, its where the regulations end that is worrying....

 

[BakuPeg]

First off, I do not trust the government. This is the same Gov that tells us we don't need to know what is in our food and thinks food drenched in Glyphosate is good for us. Its the same Gov that told us for years that smoking was good for us.

If we had the same Government we had years ago, then maybe.. but we don't. Our Gov is bought and paid for by special interests that want us smoking and dead. IMO. Oh and while we kill ourselves smoking we pay our taxes. Nothing like Death and Taxes.

Vape on, please if this was a slap in the face just read on and watch some Television, you'll feel better.