is the Nichrome coil in electronic cigs dangerous?

[minitater]

found this info: may indicate that it doesn't vaporize along with the juice?

"is corrosion-resistant, and has a high melting point of about 1400 °C (2552 °F). Due to its relatively high electrical resistivity and resistance to oxidation ..."

 

[DaveP]

I'd worry more about the scorch point of the polyfill in a carto than the melting point of nichrome wire. Some are worried about whether the bottles our juice comes in are made of BPA.

It kills me the way some people will stop and complain about cigarette smoke in a busy parking garage while they stand around in the exhaust gases of passing vehicles. There are lots of things out there that can hasten our departure from this world.

That's not directed at the OP, just commenting on the number of things in our environment that will slowly take us out.

 

[elfstone]

To be honest, just bumping this because it is an interesting thread.

The biggest caveat about it remains the fact that opponents of harm reduction policies in tobacco users will often equate any potential or even unforeseen risk of a smoking alternative to the blanket "should not be claimed safer than cigarettes". The clearest example is the Swedish Snus, which remains banned in the EU, while cigarettes remain legal, in spite of important data showing it to be much safer than smoking.

I'm still left wondering about flavors - I know they are food grade, but that doesn't really say anything about the safety of inhaling them. A lot of flavors are water soluble, and thus readlily absorbed (which is a good thing, it means they don't accumulate in the lung) but the direct effect on the lung tissue is probably poorly understood.

Unfortunately, I still cannot find any good analyses of the vapor. Does anyone knows about some? FDA notoriously tested the cartridges, not the vapor, nor did they look at the atomizers afaik. Testing the vapor poses certain technical hurdles to be sure, and there would be variations between different atomizers and voltages, but I think it would be worth it. I wonder if CASAA or a similar organization could try to enroll a reputed lab to test the vapor...

 

[Hoosier]

Unfortunately, I still cannot find any good analyses of the vapor. Does anyone knows about some? FDA notoriously tested the cartridges, not the vapor, nor did they look at the atomizers afaik. Testing the vapor poses certain technical hurdles to be sure, and there would be variations between different atomizers and voltages, but I think it would be worth it. I wonder if CASAA or a similar organization could try to enroll a reputed lab to test the vapor...

Good question, but with CASAA, or anyone else, where does the money come from? If the money were to come from somewhere, would that fact that the money came from X cause others to point at that fact and discount any, and all, results of the test? What would the test be looking for? If some results said there were 0.03 micrograms of Z, wouldn't than encourage folks to say, "Z is poison! See it is proof these need to be banned.", while ignoring the fact that it takes kilograms of Z to damage a human?

Don't get me wrong, I would like to see more testing. Testing that publishes the methods and proceedures along with the results. The thing I see over and over again is testing results used for fear mongering when there is nothing to fear, but the lawmakers get involve because of the mongering. We vapers don't have a media swaying voice, a PAC, or even a tiny lobbying arm besides the CASAA. The anti's have everything we don't. Who does the testing help?

Look at something simple like lead on toys which everyone can agree is a bad thing. One company imported toys that had lead on them at hazardous levels. The fear mongering began. We now have a law that requires toy producers to have their products tested by third party labs, except for the company who imported the toys that started it all. The one who caused it does not need to test their toys, but the guy who hand carves trains out of wood and doesn't apply a paint or finish to them does have to have the third party tests. Once things like this start rolling, there is little in the way of reason that remains in the final observation.

It's a slippery slope. While I want to see more testing, I am anxious as to what the anti's would do with the data.

 

[elfstone]

where does the money come from?

Well as a matter of fact, virtually every single drug approval by the FDA is based on research done with "unrestricted grants" from
the drug manufacturer. That's the common practice, that's how it works. Although I can see them forgoing any decency and attack the source of funding.

While I want to see more testing, I am anxious as to what the anti's would do with the data.

For one thing, the main "anti" argument these days is "there is no sufficient data". The WHO statement is exclusively based on that, while ASH sort of says the same thing. It's interesting how one can twist the great principle "no evidence is not evidence to the contrary" pretty much in every way. While I agree that poorly conducted studies are worse than no studies, I still believe that more data is needed to make any point at any level.

Yet, in many other fields, self regulation has the ability to tone down imposed regulation. I would propose that if the e-cig vendors would agree to a set of quality standards, supply chain transparency, minimum required warning labels, and voluntary registration that could, or at least should (but God knows!) appear as an act of good faith and a starting point for a reasonable dialogue instead of the parallel monologues of today.

 

[Jim Bob]

but the direct effect on the lung tissue is probably poorly understood.

I'd say all those workers baking for 10 hours a day for 30+ years inhaled quite a bit of the exact same things in vaping absent the nicotine

 

[showbizo]

excellent point guys youve all made great points i def feel a heck of allot better about vaping now! i never really put it in perspective like that the wire used is used for so much more than electronic cigs and for long enough im assuming to detect any danger by now . and as for juices maybe ill make one with no flavor for the heck of it lol.

EXTREMELY HAPPY VAPING!

 

[swedishfish]

Gee, too bad we didn't research the heck out of cigs before we started smoking, we wouldn't be here.

2,000 chemicals? MAOI's? sure I'll pay 8 bucks a pack for it!

 

[swedishfish]

Yet, in many other fields, self regulation has the ability to tone down imposed regulation. I would propose that if the e-cig vendors would agree to a set of quality standards, supply chain transparency, minimum required warning labels, and voluntary registration that could, or at least should (but God knows!) appear as an act of good faith and a starting point for a reasonable dialogue instead of the parallel monologues of today.

Except some vendors consist of a guy in their house. It's a new industry with the exception of a few bad apples that quickly rise to the surface, do a pretty good job.

 

[elfstone]

Yes, swedishfish, but this is not how it works in this country. Take a look - Government Forces Private Citizens to Pour Bleach on Home-Grown Organic Food | Wake Up World. And that was FOOD, not the "Nicodemon"

Vaping is probably facing some regulatory action in the near future. There is a spectrum of possibilities, from illegality (welcome to the prohibition) to some form of overly regulated system. Someone described a cataclysmic scenario on the forum here. It's not very far fetched and could result in either the disappearance of vaping supplies altogether or scene with e-juice that would be more expensive, richer in additives, and probably dominated by big industry interests.

All I'm saying is that some degree of preemptive self-regulation and consolidation may sweeten the overall outcome. Completely unregulated, unverified, poorly labelled and unregistered mom-and-pop vendors are undefendable in the ignorant eyes of public opinion should some large interest really start the lobby and PR fight, and once some kid swallows a 125 ml 36 mg chocolate flavored juice. Dispersed backwoods brewers (no reference to any actual vendor) will not be able to negotiate a softer landing once legislation and taxation starts pouring down.

 

[swedishfish]

What would labels and self-regulation have to do with bans?

 

[martinc]

Well,I can tell you that the horrid (for lack of a stronger word that could net me a warning!) taste that occurs when a coil pop in my odysseus is certainly not a good thing to inhale,that is a fact...but what can we do really.

 

[DaveP]

The policing that goes on in ECF from discussions that arise sometimes make vendors have to answer questions about what is in a juice. I don't know whether any butter flavored ecig juices ever contained diacetyl, but once a discussion started here, the next thing I knew vendors were making statements that they did not use diacetyl in their juices.

Discussion is a valuable thing. It brings up points that lead to further investigation and usually results in a better product for all.

 

[showbizo]

well the good news is there is tons a small company can do to improve the industry.. i mean its a vaporizer and there are hundreds of ways to vaporize a substance as far a the e liquid is concerned diy brewing may be the future or not regardless has anyone ever thought of financially contributing to a unionized group of distributors perhaps raise funds for testing from third parties i mean i would throw a couple buck in the pot to keep things going like most people said on this thread why wait for things to fall on our doorstep it would also be a great way to exclude major corporations from regulating the laws if we worked together we can fully study what we are doing without big business and sorta create a new movement for products altogether... lead by example, applicable to almost any product industry! people have more power than they realize we just need to share common interest and that my friend we already have. not just for vaping but the world in general. so if anyone has any ideas maybe we can create a self funded group to further study this new field i mean vaping is a great improvement and pleasure in my life. i would love to help out anyway i can. even if any part of what i wrote is off or over-obsessive, excessive im up for a movement of self order.

HAPPY VAPING YALL

 

[showbizo]

Thats what the tattoo industry did here in america we did our own audit and it set the bar

 

[showbizo]

All we did is shun any company that brought something to the table that was unsafe.. I mean most professional tattoo artist dont use those blacklight inks or any product that wasnt vegan safe

 

[showbizo]

Sorry if any of my comparison seems unrelated

 

[drizzle]

Hmmm, after 14 months of vaping, this is not something I'm worried about, but starting to have some doubts about the safety of VG, been having some strange issues lately and I'm sure it's from VG, not PG.

 

[wfx]

yes, honestly, nichrome and kanthal coils are a liability. we do need further scientific investigation on the byproducts. still you are much better off vaping these than smoking cigarettes. it's harm /reduction/ not elimination we're after.

and in a few years, who knows, maybe we'll get the ultrasonic, heat induction, halogen encased stuff i've been dreaming of. R&D 'heavy hitters' are sitting on the sidelines right now. pharma pays well.

 

[AZCraig]

I expect once the big players get into the game (i.e. tobacco companies), we'll see at least one atomized spray pump type of ecig that uses no heating element.