Is the whole scandal with da and ap overblown? Some numbers inside

[skoony]

OK....

i fail to see the humor. then i thought this was an adult
discussion.
regards
mike

 

[Rossum]

your on. as long as you use ingredients that are considered GRAS

In order to be GRAS, a substance must be shown to be "generally recognized" as safe under the conditions of its intended use, which in the case of flavors, does not involve inhalation of a heated vapor. In fact, the Flavor & Extract Manufacturer Association objects to the use of the term "GRAS" (to which it asserts trademark rights) in connection with electronic cigarettes.

E-cigarette and flavor manufacturers and marketers should not represent or suggest that the flavor ingredients used in e-cigarettes are safe because they have FEMA GRAS™ status for use in food because such statements are false and misleading.

and

E-cigarette manufacturers and marketers should take appropriate action to assure the safety of flavor ingredients used in e-cigarettes. FEMA GRAS™ status for the use of flavor ingredients in food does not mean that FEMA GRAS™ flavor ingredients are safe for use in e-cigarettes.

Lastly, it seems to me that that diketones, particularly DA and AP are Generally Recognized As UNSAFE for inhalation.

 

[skoony]

In order to be GRAS, a substance must be shown to be "generally recognized" as safe under the conditions of its intended use, which in the case of flavors, does not involve inhalation of a heated vapor. In fact, the Flavor & Extract Manufacturer Association objects to the use of the term "GRAS" (to which it asserts trademark rights) in connection with electronic cigarettes.

ah,your nit picking now. something wrong with your juice?

Lastly, it seems to me that that diketones, particularly DA and AP are Generally Recognized As UNSAFE for inhalation.

in almost pure form evidently.
regards
mike

 

[zoiDman]

i fail to see the humor. then i thought this was an adult
discussion.
regards
mike

It was Funny because I think you Quoted the Wrong Half of my Post.

And if you Didn't, that makes it even Funnier.

 

[sofarsogood]

Another way to look at it, what are the effects of NOT smoking. After 11 months my perception is my smoking "wounds" are still healing. With typical serious mechanical injuries a huge amount of healing goes on in the first 6 weeks then the healing process may continue for 2 years at an ever slower rate (if you don't reinjure) and, after that, what ever lingering effects haven't gone away you'll probably have to live with. My vaping doesn't seem to be interfering with that longer term process. I would like vaping to be as safe as it needs to be to encourage more smokers to switch. I'll put up with a little inconvenience for the sake of that.

 

[Gauntlgrym]

so, we all know that many respectable scientists in the vaping field have said that diketones are "bad", "potentially bad", "unnecessary risk" or "unsafe."
however, has ANY credible scientist come out and said that diketones are "100% safe for inhalation"?

now, if the answer is "no, no respectable scientist has said that"..........then doesn't it seem more likely that they are bad?
if no credible scientist in the entire world thinks they are safe, then that speaks volumes to me.

 

[zoiDman]

so, we all know that many respectable scientists in the vaping field have said that diketones are "bad", "potentially bad", "unnecessary risk" or "unsafe."
however, has ANY credible scientist come out and said that diketones are "100% safe for inhalation"?

now, if the answer is "no, no respectable scientist has said that"..........then doesn't it seem more likely that they are bad?

I place more Faith/Trust in Un-Credentialed people I see on Internet Forums than I do in Respected Scientists myself.

 

[Jman8]

so, we all know that many respectable scientists in the vaping field have said that diketones are "bad", "potentially bad", "unnecessary risk" or "unsafe."
however, has ANY credible scientist come out and said that diketones are "100% safe for inhalation"?

now, if the answer is "no, no respectable scientist has said that"..........then doesn't it seem more likely that they are bad?
if no credible scientist in the entire world thinks they are safe, then that speaks volumes to me.

Has any credible scientist come out and said that nicotine is 100% safe for inhalation?

If the answer is no, then every company should follow my demand to not sell it and appease ANTZ. It's the only right thing to do in the free market for vaping.

 

[stevegmu]

Has any credible scientist come out and said that nicotine is 100% safe for inhalation?

If the answer is no, then every company should follow my demand to not sell it and appease ANTZ. It's the only right thing to do in the free market for vaping.

A warning label will do concerning DA/AP content...

 

[AzPlumber]

But DA & AP are organic

 

[stevegmu]

But DA & AP are organic

So is anthrax...

 

[zoiDman]

But DA & AP are organic

Free Range also. And they are Gluten Free to boot.

 

[AzPlumber]

So is anthrax...

Steve, I hope you picked up on my sarcasm

 

[stevegmu]

Steve, I hope you picked up on my sarcasm

Of course. I am sure some would vape anthrax e-liquid, though, as long as it tasted good... Some would even say it should be allowed as an ingredient...

 

[zoiDman]

... Some would even say it should be allowed as an ingredient...

As Bizarre is this Sounds, I think you are Correct.

If a Member, albeit on the Fringe, believes that it is OK to put Glow Stick Liquid in e-Liquids and then Sell it to Kids, I think Anything goes.

 

[Deadkaiser]

So why is no one changing there flavoring is it just because they cant be bothered to deal with recreating all there recipes or is there are large cost increase between normal food grade stuff and the vape 'safe' stuff? Or do they all think that give it 5-10 years half of them will be out of business or bough out by some tobacco giant and they can deal with any possible law suits if scientist fears pan out and we all have damaged lungs?

 

[Rossum]

So why is no one changing there flavoring is it just because they cant be bothered to deal with recreating all there recipes or is there are large cost increase between normal food grade stuff and the vape 'safe' stuff? Or do they all think that give it 5-10 years half of them will be out of business or bough out by some tobacco giant and they can deal with any possible law suits if scientist fears pan out and we all have damaged lungs?

I think your premise is incorrect. There are a number vendors of both juice and flavorings who offer full lines of diketone free products these days. So If someone wishes to avoid diketones, that is entirely possible; it just requires a bit of digging.

OTOH, there seems to be a substantial contingent of vapers who are utterly addicted to diketone-based flavors and don't want any changes in their favorite flavors. I'm not surprised that some vendors are willing to cater to these customers.

There also seem to be some vendors who are using a strategy that's somewhere in between, who are incrementally reducing the diketone levels in their products, presumably in an attempt to wean their customers.

 

[Deadkaiser]

I think your premise is incorrect. There are a number vendors of both juice and flavorings who offer full lines of diketone free products these days. So If someone wishes to avoid diketones, that is entirely possible; it just requires a bit of digging.

OTOH, there seems to be a substantial contingent of vapers who are utterly addicted to diketone-based flavors and don't want any changes in their favorite flavors. I'm not surprised that some vendors are willing to cater to these customers.

There also seem to be some vendors who are using a strategy that's somewhere in between, who are incrementally reducing the diketone levels in their products, presumably in an attempt to wean their customers.

there really were not that many when i looked at the list on this forum it was like 10 or so that's nothing... and a few of them were new shops that opened for precisely this reason
(Or did i completely misread that forum - if so ignore my bad)
I personally have no problem with them sell diketone-based flavors as long as they clearly state that and preferably offering links to the 'possible' side effects because i think may people have no idea!

 

[skoony]

so, we all know that many respectable scientists in the vaping field have said that diketones are "bad", "potentially bad", "unnecessary risk" or "unsafe."
however, has ANY credible scientist come out and said that diketones are "100% safe for inhalation"?

now, if the answer is "no, no respectable scientist has said that"..........then doesn't it seem more likely that they are bad?
if no credible scientist in the entire world thinks they are safe, then that speaks volumes to me.

The scientific community is basing their opinions on how diketones in and of themselves affect
lung tissues,ie., the rat study and by their investigation of the workers in the industry that
were affected by popcorn lung.(OB)
As far as I know there have been no studies with diketones mixed in a viscous mixture of
PG and or VG. It would be interesting if some one would do a study such as the one with
the rats with real e-juice known to contain diketones under realistic conditions.
That would pretty much end this debate. If some one does and it shows diketones
are in fact causing damage, I apologize in advance.
Regards
Mike

 

[Rossum]

How do you get the rats to vape?