Is the whole scandal with da and ap overblown? Some numbers inside

[zoiDman]

looks good but,your going by digesting not inhalation.
...

An Excellent Point.

And as Dr. Hubbs likes to point out...

"Safe to eat Doesn't mean safe to inhale."

 

[stevegmu]

I'd be a little concerned about VG, as well, with the sheer volume and percentage some are inhaling it...
Maybe too much VG causes weight gain...

 

[VNeil]

Perhaps I missed it?

But what "live studies" are you referring to?

The one where millions of people vape all kinds of different devices and juices and flavorings, and after 5 or 6 years no one can seem to find any evidence of lung degradation.

That seems much more relevant than studying a few rats in a lab. We've already determined that some people refuse to accept the simple fact that there is no evidence that eCigs are hurting people, regardless of flavorings.

That real world "test" of millions of human subjects seems to contradict off the cuff statements such as "but it seems AP is actually far worse than diacetyl..." based on rat studies.

 

[stevegmu]

These millions of vapers have been monitored for the past 5-6 years? Can you provide a link for the study involving vapers under clinical monitoring and study over the past 5-6 years?

 

[zoiDman]

The one where millions of people vape all kinds of different devices and juices and flavorings, and after 5 or 6 years no one can seem to find any evidence of lung degradation.

That seems much more relevant than studying a few rats in a lab. We've already determined that some people refuse to accept the simple fact that there is no evidence that eCigs are hurting people, regardless of flavorings.

That real world "test" of millions of human subjects seems to contradict off the cuff statements such as "but it seems AP is actually far worse than diacetyl..." based on rat studies.

OK...

So the Basis of you Position is because you have Not Seen a Vaper who has Died and then had a Deep Lung Biopsy done which Specifically is looking for Bronchiolitis Obliterans?

 

[zoiDman]

The one where millions of people vape all kinds of different devices and juices and flavorings, and after 5 or 6 years no one can seem to find any evidence of lung degradation.

That seems much more relevant than studying a few rats in a lab. We've already determined that some people refuse to accept the simple fact that there is no evidence that eCigs are hurting people, regardless of flavorings.

That real world "test" of millions of human subjects seems to contradict off the cuff statements such as "but it seems AP is actually far worse than diacetyl..." based on rat studies.

BTW - How long have you been Using an e-Cigarette?

 

[Jman8]

These millions of vapers have been monitored for the past 5-6 years? Can you provide a link for the study involving vapers under clinical monitoring and study over the past 5-6 years?

Nope. I don't believe anyone can. Hence the "we don't know" claim goes two ways. We don't know that vaping causes any harm to its users over the long term. Those who claim they might, or have potential to, are speculating.

Over the short term, based on idea that millions are using, it is plausible to believe that 10 years of vaping, or less will not be associated with any serious (or noticeable) health issues, or is on par with drinking soda.

 

[stevegmu]

Nope. I don't believe anyone can. Hence the "we don't know" claim goes two ways. We don't know that vaping causes any harm to its users over the long term. Those who claim they might, or have potential to, are speculating.

Over the short term, based on idea that millions are using, it is plausible to believe that 10 years of vaping, or less will not be associated with any serious (or noticeable) health issues, or is on par with drinking soda.

Drinking soda is really bad. Practically a death sentence for kids today...

 

[VNeil]

I'd be a little concerned about VG, as well, with the sheer volume and percentage some are inhaling it...
Maybe too much VG causes weight gain...

And your basis for that concern, links to the studies?
I know rats gained weight when they inhaled a lot of VG. I inhale 15ml/day, been doing it for a year, and gained zero pounds. Actually lost 2 pounds. So maybe it does and maybe it doesn't, and maybe it depends on the individual and maybe... maybe... maybe.... maybe rats aren't people?

 

[stevegmu]

And your basis for that concern, links to the studies?
I know rats gained weight when they inhaled a lot of VG. I inhale 15ml/day, been doing it for a year, and gained zero pounds. Actually lost 2 pounds. So maybe it does and maybe it doesn't, and maybe it depends on the individual and maybe... maybe... maybe.... maybe rats aren't people?

I have seen pics of Vape events...

 

[VNeil]

I have seen pics of Vape events...

You saw pics of vape events, and I assume people were blowing clouds... and that gave rise to concern about weight gain, and other potential evil health risks from VG? So you really do just make this stuff up as you go along? And the way you put this VG stuff out, totally out of the blue here and totally off topic, it sounded to me like the next item in your propaganda checklist. Perhaps I misread the situation.

 

[stevegmu]

You saw pics of vape events, and I assume people were blowing clouds... and that gave rise to concern about weight gain, and other potential evil health risks from VG? So you really do just make this stuff up as you go along? And the way you put this VG stuff out, totally out of the blue here and totally off topic, it sounded to me like the next item in your propaganda checklist. Perhaps I misread the situation.

Pictures of actual vapers, not their clouds. Search vaping and weight gain. It is a legitimate concern for many and may be overlooked due to the current concerns over diacetyl and AP due to the recent scandals...

 

[VNeil]

So you saw some overweight vapers and that was evidence of VG induced weight gain? OK.

Yes, I've seen some discussion of it but as I mentioned before, it didn't "work" for me, and the folks I see at my local vape shops blowing VG clouds are not generally overweight either.

 

[stevegmu]

The correlation is there, especially given Vg is a saturated fat...
Perhaps it affects the thyroid gland...

 

[VNeil]

The correlation is there, especially given Vg is a saturated fat...
Perhaps it affects the thyroid gland...

And a link to the peer reviewed study?
You are constantly badgering me for peer reviewed studies, but it doesn't seem to cut both ways? Especially for something rather anecdotal like this. Generally speaking, a lot of people gain weight after quitting smoking, regardless of the method. OTOH, some people lose weight and some like me stay about even. That would not be easy to unravel into something correlating VG, or "excessive" VG use. Certainly not in your typical web links on the subject. Lots of search hits on "Vaping weight loss" and "Quit Smoking Weight gain"

 

[zoiDman]

The correlation is there, especially given Vg is a saturated fat...
Perhaps it affects the thyroid gland...

Remember what I said awhile back about "Bears and Sticks"

 

[stevegmu]

And a link to the peer reviewed study?
You are constantly badgering me for peer reviewed studies, but it doesn't seem to cut both ways? Especially for something rather anecdotal like this. Generally speaking, a lot of people gain weight after quitting smoking, regardless of the method. OTOH, some people lose weight and some like me stay about even. That would not be easy to unravel into something correlating VG, or "excessive" VG use. Certainly not in your typical web links on the subject. Lots of search hits on "Vaping weight loss" and "Quit Smoking Weight gain"

There haven't been studies yet, as there haven't been concerning humans vaping diacetyl or AP. That's the point. No such studies exist- all that is available now is anecdotal evidence. Saying 5-6 million vapers haven't had issues yet is just as silly...

 

[Rossum]

The correlation is there, especially given Vg is a saturated fat...

Since when? VG is a simple sugar alcohol. A glycerol group is often a component of a much bigger fat molecule, but I do not see how VG itself could possibly be called a fat.

 

[Rossum]

Saying 5-6 million vapers haven't had issues yet is just as silly...

I have to concur with this. If tobacco had been discovered in 2003 and come into wide-spread use between 2007 and the present, it wouldn't have killed anyone yet either.

 

[puffon]

However, any argument that vaping might cause COPD would be quite tortured in light of the fact that most or all vapers with COPD report significant return of lung function, or at least apparent lung function, in terms of ability to physically exert themselves.

Do you have a link to this study?