Is there a better atomizer design?

[Davidyang]

Right, you want to lower resistance 30-50% and use PWM with 100% duty cycle for the first say 500ms and then lower duty cycle to 70%. You get faster heat up time and if you take battery capacity into consideration you can have better vapor generation when battery is about to run out. Caveat is that it will probably turn into a small radio transmitter. The whole thing being inside steel casing should mostly eliminate that problem though.

what you said is right, now we have lowered the resistance in the atomiser between 3.1-3.5 Ω ,which produce great vapour. As to the battery, what we have done now is : we are using an electronic switch. the programm inside the IC will keep it working in a efficient way. Meanwhile , we are looking for a more powerful battery like Trog's, but with small size.

 

[jigtg]

what you said is right, now we have lowered the resistance in the atomiser between 3.1-3.5 Ω ,which produce great vapour. As to the battery, what we have done now is : we are using an electronic switch. the programm inside the IC will keep it working in a efficient way. Meanwhile , we are looking for a more powerful battery like Trog's, but with small size.

Lowering coil resistance is not the answer to generating more vapor, it just increases power consumption which lowers battery life. Be careful or you might shoot yourself in the foot. Of course, why make a choice if you don't have to? (hint, hint)
Yes but did you implement the fast heating using PWM? It's quite likely you already have PWM controller on that chip..
Janty already stole Sedansa's extended battery life so you should probably do the same. Plenty of other means to improve battery life of course but might increase manufacturing costs.

 

[Davidyang]

Lowering coil resistance is not the answer to generating more vapor, it just increases power consumption which lowers battery life. Be careful or you might shoot yourself in the foot. Of course, why make a choice if you don't have to? (hint, hint)
Yes but did you implement the fast heating using PWM? It's quite likely you already have PWM controller on that chip..
Janty already stole Sedansa's extended battery life so you should probably do the same. Plenty of other means to improve battery life of course but might increase manufacturing costs.

Yes , you are right, if just lower the resistance it will increases power consumption. we just low at a reseanable range, and meanwhile, we need to do some work on the battery as Sedansa's , which we have already done. Sedansa is a leading brother in the ecig field, at least I think so, just my own idea,

 

[SuperSteph]

I will be interesting to see the new designs. if we can fix the few issues (battery life, atomizer life, overall reliability and quality) then we will have a great product.

 

[SuperSteph]

My first try. 41 gauge nichrome wire. I need to try a thicker gauge wire, and a longer length, and probably encase it in an insulator. Right now i don't get any vapor from it, because their's no reservoir to hold the fluid. I need to buy some steel wool for that. It might be better to use 2 elements. The wire is thinner then hair, so i worry about it breaking. i tried a shorter length, a 3 ohms, but on my first attempt, it burned up. i guess 1 amp is too much current. I think i'm going to use a screw as a guide to winding the wire, then epoxy the the wire with jb-weld, and remove the screw. that should make it much stronger. then put steel wool on the inside and around the ceramic, and put it all back in the atomizer housing.

 

[dablackanarch]

Steph,

Have you considered using a larger gauge like 24 gauge and a smaller resistor? Also, are you planning to use some sort of support for the heating element or will it hang free inside of the atomizer.

The heating element design I have is more of a straight style that can insert into the current carts and also can be dripped with a porous ceramic 'cart'. You might want to look into getting some porous ceramic to use instead of the steel wool. I found a great source of porous ceramic cylinders. This company will make special sizes if you need them.

 

[SuperSteph]

Most places have a minimum order for the ceramic, i don't plan on producing these, just find a better design, and post the instructions here so anyone could do it.
like I said i want to try encasing the element in something like an epoxy.
I can't use 24 gauge, i am choosing the wire so i won't need a resistor, it will just be wasted power and heat. i could use a thicker gauge but it would require PWM controller to keep it from burning up and wasting power. right now i'm going for simple, i'll do more complicated later.

 

[arifg]

Guys, you may try a different way: use temperature-proof fiber. At first glance I know two: asbestos and fiberglass. Asbestos is harmful but fiberglass may work: I think it will sustain enough heat from coil with appropriate capillary ability.

 

[bribri]

The truth is you aren't going to be able to jimmy together the changes that need to be done to the cart. Eventually, its going to have to give exact measured dosages of liquid each inhale and using the system we have now is more like an old zippo, well just slather it in juice and create a spark and hope it works! Its like half these ecigs technology is barbaric, and half of it is up to modern day. I mean once you posted that picture I realized how old school this thing is. It needs to be completely revamped. Carts should be able to be slipped in the side like ammo in a gun. The fiber is ridiculous, that means these things are not made to last. period. When they easily can. How come the marijuana vaporizors are using modern technology with temperature gadges and stuff, and we are stuck with a piece of linen with a piece of steel wool covering it? Come on.

 

[bribri]

I think the temperature your lookin for is: 210 celsius

 

[SuperSteph]

The target temperature isn't a problem, it's regulating it at that temperature. when the liquid vaporizes, it cools the atomizer. if there is not liquid on the atomizer, it overheats. Too much liquid, and you will get poor vapor output. The fix for this is to add a thermocouple that will let you measure the temperature of the atomizer, and use a feedback loop to increase or decrease the temperature.
The fibers in the atomizer are not an easy fix. I'm investigating solutions. I tried encapsulating the atomizer, but sadly i couldn't get it to come out right.
This is why people get excited when they hear of an ultrasonic atomizer. but so far, i am not convinced that any of the atomizers use ultrasonic technology to vaporize the liquid (not even the Janty, I will believe it when i see it proven).
For now, using a nichrome wire is the most cost effective method, it just needs to be handled properly.

 

[arifg]

Thermocouple (or solid-state thermoresistor) adds at least one more pin to atomizer's connector and at least one ADC channel to the microcontroller. It seems to me such design will be not so cost effective as a current one... But if to fantasize about the better design why not to consider microwave (2.4 GHz) heater as well. Today's consumer hight-frequency defices such as Bluetooth's and WiFi's are very compact and pretty chip already, and in e-cig's case its just a matter of power. Atomizer appears as just a ....-end of the wave-guide and will be virtually eternal

 

[Tetsab]

Thought I'd just bring this back up again as it is EXACTLY the idea I'd been thinking of myself but as a newbie can't start a thread myself yet, and this was the only reference I've found about it.

As this thread has become fairly technical can I ask again whether anyone has any thoughts about it? Particularly a manufacturer?

It was something that occurred to me within days of getting my first e-cig (901b) particularly after spotted people talking about squeezing cartridges to get the rest of the liquid out of them as re-ordering the construction should virtually remove this problem altogether.

To me it does seem that the current design is exactly the wrong way round!

Hi all - First time poster, just ordered an Njoy and my order is pending, I hope to receive (fingers crossed) by Wednesday the 13th.

This thread started with a better atomizer design and then wondered off, but it occured to be that some of the items in the e-cig are in the wrong place. Let me see if I can explain

the air flow <--------------
mouth piece - cartridge - atomizer - battery
the liquid flow ------------>


seems to me that this would be better although I have no idea how it would be realized
the air flow <--------------
mouth piece - atomizer - cartridge - battery
the liquid flow <------------

I think this way the draw wouldn't fight the the liquid from getting to the wick and prevent the atomizer from having problems.

Just wondering what you all think?

 

[jarvis]

Here's another of my non-scientific ideas I drew up for a different atomizer/cartridge design. The principle comes from felt markers. The atomizer coil is turned sideways, and contains no wick. The wick is now part of the cartridge, and is plugged directly into the coil. The carts would last longer, being filled predominately with liquid, not fiber, and there's a new wick every time you replace the cartridges.

 

[keys]

What I fantasize about would be kind of fuel injector spray. You could have the fluid onboard the e-cig (say 5mg; a little sort of fuel tank you could fill yourself from a larger bottle) and when you press a button a predetermined amount of fluid is sprayed onto the heating element with it being fired up simultaneously. That way you always have the same hit and not worry about that burning taste that I assume is, in part, from the fiber touching the heating element. Any you wouldn't have to be constantly fiddling with dripping into carts.

And while were dreaming . .. why not a little cooling fan that kicks in immediately after the hit, to cool off the atomizer. Of course, this would have to be plug or USB powered.

 

[linkdead]

Jarvis, I think that is a great low tech idea.
In my opinion I consider the low tech ideas much more feasable.
After all KISS really does prove to work out best most of the time.

 

[kmk1018]

JARVIS!!!
i've been gone for a while cause school...finals...job for summer...yada yada yada.
anywho, i've been messing around with some nichrome i got at a science store, and i built a *BARELY WORKING* atomizer, and my planned idea is strikingly similiar to yours. in mine, i left out the wadding at the top, and the wick is always in the coil, but nevertheless, i think great minds think alike.

 

[Keltrey]

What about replacing the fiber in the coil with kevlar fiber like Jaxx has been trying to do with the cart material? It would have to be better than fiberglass.

 

[kmk1018]

What about replacing the fiber in the coil with kevlar fiber like Jaxx has been trying to do with the cart material? It would have to be better than fiberglass.

i saw another thread where they were toying with the idea, but the temperatures of the vaporization of PG and where Kevlar starts melting (and apparently releasing gas) was really close, so it may have been hazardous. the fiber in an atomizer now sounds an awful lot like Kevlar however.

 

[Keltrey]

i saw another thread where they were toying with the idea, but the temperatures of the vaporization of PG and where Kevlar starts melting (and apparently releasing gas) was really close, so it may have been hazardous. the fiber in an atomizer now sounds an awful lot like Kevlar however.

Ah, ok had not seen that one.