"It only takes ONE bad chemical"

[Racehorse]

I didn't read the whole thing, but the following stood out to me. It always seems to be said that BO is irreversible, but this suggests that in the early stages, it can heal, at least in part:

Except that the ONLY test for BO is.........a lung biopsy.

So, in order to know you have it, you'd have to go thru that.

Oh, yes, that is SO-O-O-O worth vaping custards. NOT!

 

[stevegmu]

Except that the ONLY test for BO is.........a lung biopsy.

So, in order to know you have it, you'd have to go thru that.

Oh, yes, that is SO-O-O-O worth vaping custards. NOT!

Who doesn't mind an occasional lung biopsy?...

 

[Racehorse]

I suspect had a fairly high level of diketones, tasted great to me, and it seems like it was the diketones that made them taste so good.

Somebody described DAP laden juices as the crack of vaping.

Believe me, vendors who are using it know EXACTLY what they are doing.

It sells, sells, sells.

 

[nicnik]

Why is the author of the article OP linked to so sure it only takes one chemical? Aren't even the scientists investigating this unsure if the diketones are capable of doing such damage alone. and that it might involve a combination of factors, maybe even other exposures?

 

[nicnik]

Except that the ONLY test for BO is.........a lung biopsy.

So, in order to know you have it, you'd have to go thru that.

Oh, yes, that is SO-O-O-O worth vaping custards. NOT!

I'm too scared to vape diketones, but there's not a lot of rationality, nor consisentency to my various fears and phobias, and I don't recommend people live by what I avoid in life.

 

[caramel]

[...] I don't recommend people live by what I avoid in life.

It is sooo un-american to not try to impose your own views/interests to everyone else... on the whole planet if possible... are you sure you're not Swiss or something?

 

[AndriaD]

It is sooo un-american to not try to impose your own views/interests to everyone else... on the whole planet if possible... are you sure you're not Swiss or something?

Never fear... for each ONE of us that ISN'T a control freak, there's at least A HUNDRED who are. Seems to be an epidemic of it these days. I thought we'd gotten past all that with the hippies and the Age of Aquarius, but it seems not.

Andria

 

[Lessifer]

People always talk about it like a guy standing over a vat spiking the punch with a bottle of diacetyl. For the most part, I believe people formulated recipes with flavorings that were available, and made something that tasted good. Later it turned out that some of the flavorings used probably contained diketones and some vendors chose to reformulate, and some didn't.

I guess it feels better to imagine a big bad someone intentionally doing something you find questionable though.

 

[Kent C]

It is sooo un-american to not try to impose your own views/interests to everyone else... on the whole planet if possible

Hijack warning above...

Those who have actually done it in the past are Italy (Romans), British, Soviet and German .. and a few others - Atilla the Hun, Jenjis (Genghis) Khan [John Kerry's pronunciation :- ) ] Were it not for the British, we wouldn't have had slavery.

 

[Katya]

Hijack warning above...

Those who have actually done it in the past are Italy (Romans), British, Soviet and German .. and a few others - Atilla the Hun, Jenjis (Genghis) Khan [John Kerry's pronunciation :- ) ] Were it not for the British, we wouldn't have had slavery.

You're forgetting the caliphate...

 

[nicnik]

It is sooo un-american to not try to impose your own views/interests to everyone else... on the whole planet if possible... are you sure you're not Swiss or something?

Maybe you mean it's so non-Scandinavian. U.S. isn't anywhere near as bad as a lot of other countries in that regard. U.S. just seems to brag most about its freedoms, so it needs to live up to it's professed reputation, lest it be accused of being HYPOCRITICAL! I'M ACCUSING! HYPOCRITICAL!

 

[Kent C]

U.S. just seems to brag most about its freedoms, so it needs to live up to it's professed reputation, lest it be accused of being HYPOCRITICAL! I'M ACCUSING! HYPOCRITICAL!

We have people in our midst that stop us from living up to it, and create regulations so we can't.

And pointing out hypocrisies doesn't win arguments, it only makes liberals laugh (or faux cough and laugh) and feel superior. But of course they are not. Their way to avoid the charge of hypocrisy is to not have a moral code in the first place, and that's one thing they've lived up to

 

[Kent C]

You're forgetting the caliphate...

You mean the one that's coming or the one in the past?

 

[QU1T]

You mean the one's the coming or the one in the past?

Edit: nvm... ballz.

 

[caramel]

[...]to not have a moral code in the first place [...]

You mean like in "free markets"?

 

[CarolT]

double post

 

[CarolT]

Yep... it's the irreversible part that scares the hell out of me. But the simple fact that the only reported symptom is "shortness of breath" is why I won't take the chance, since I would have no way to know if it was a very normal asthma attack, or the beginning of my imminent death -- heck, apparently even doctors have a hard time diagnosing B. O., since it's often misdiagnosed as COPD. It might be a slim risk, but it's a risk I'd far rather avoid.

Judging from my extreme repulsion to the *smell* of microwave popcorn, I probably wouldn't like the taste of them in my ejuice anyway.

Andria

But just because some doctors misdiagnose it doesn't mean that you should too. On the fourth page of that review article it goes into the differences:

There are a number of differences between bronchiolitis obliterans and other more common obstructive lung diseases such as asthma or chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD). For example, in asthma, the degree of airway obstruction expressed by the FEV1/FVC ratio is not long lasting and alters from day to day. Furthermore, FEV1 values return to normal when treating asthma with short-term bronchiole dilators. Moreover, COPD nearly always results in decreased diffusion capacity of the lungs for carbon dioxide (CO2) together with excessive reactivity of respiratory tract. These described symptoms are not characteristic features of bronchiolitis obliterans. This condition can be distinguished from fibrotic changes of the lung, such as those in idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis or asbestosis by means of impairment of air flow but not FVC value. Notwithstanding, during the early disease stage, the TLC value is raised however, when fibrotic lung changes occur, this indicator becomes lowered [11].​

And then more details, which also also make it clear that if your death really was "imminent," it wouldn't be from BO.

 

[CarolT]

That they are safer than cigarettes is about the only thing we've been able to honestly say and I think that kinda covers it.

Vaping is harm reduction, not harm free.

Keep in mind that, "safer than cigarettes" sets the bar pretty low. I think that is a rather significant point, at least, it is for me. As there really aren't THAT many things you can do to your body that are as bad as what cigarettes do.

Safer than cigarettes doesn't mean safe. What is speculation is how much safer does something have to be in order NOT to cause a disease process?

Is "safer than cigarettes" any kind of guarantee that a disease process will not be set in motion by engaging in that behavior? NO.

Safer than cigarettes and harm reduction. That is where we're at, and have always been at.

Either of those things can be increased or decreased though, depending on the flavorings used, the manner in which people vape, materials of delivery devices, etc. We just don't know yet! Everyone should just go with their instinct. I do. (less is more for me across the board.)

I am of the opinion that, as Dr. F and others have noted, eliquid probably shouldn't have ingredients that may represent an increased inhalation risks......that would seem to increase the possible harm.

Again, use your own instinct as guide, absent real studies in large populations and long term.

Then how about admitting that they lie about the health risks of smoking? They falsely blame smoking for diseases that are really caused by infection. And, if they do population studies of vapers using the same shoddy methods, they'll falsely blame e-cigs for diseases that are really caused by infection as well.

 

[skoony]

Vaping is harm reduction, not harm free.

What you say is truthful. My problem has been the British Medical est. has stated vaping is at
least 95% safer than smoking. Bill Godshall always states vaping is 99.9% safer.
Who's right? Hard to say. If however Bills estimate is the correct one then at
99.9% safer its for all practical purposes safe,period. With an error rate of
plus or minus 3% you wind up with from 97.9% to 102.9% safety factor. i
believe there is no single product consumed by man when used normally
(what ever that is) that's any safer or at least can be proven safer. Try
eating only carrots for your dietary needs if you doubt this.
I believe the main reason for all the controversy surrounding this subject
from a political,moral and health related stand point is do to the fact that
e-cigarettes were relatively safe right out of the box. As such there is
really nothing for all the wonks to get a handle on it. Its not so much as
they want to control it per say its,the fact they are losing control over
traditional tobacco users and the money they represent.

Regards
Mike

 

[AndriaD]

But just because some doctors misdiagnose it doesn't mean that you should too. On the fourth page of that review article it goes into the differences:

blah, blah, blah...

And then more details, which also also make it clear that if your death really was "imminent," it wouldn't be from BO.

You very apparently and obviously didn't read my post which said that "if I was vaping diketones, and had an asthma attack, I would be SURE that I was about to expire of B. O."

I am not a doctor with diagnostic tools. I'm an asthmatic, and when you can't breathe, anxiety SKYROCKETS. Add a little hypochondria and you have a panic attack just waiting to happen.

Last I checked, there's nothing foolish about avoiding a POTENTIAL risk. I started vaping to try and improve my health (among other reasons), not make it worse.

Just because a lot of folks (non-asthmatics) are racing off the diketone cliff, does not mean that I have to, or will. They may fall 1 ft onto a mattress, or they might fall into their graves. I prefer to err, if err it is, on the side of caution.

Andria