Ithaka official

[OnTheFidele]

Idaho,

It seems to me your post was directed at mine.

In the spirit of objectivity, I think you'll find that many, MANY Chinese sunglass manufacturers "fked" the original developer of this design (the Ray-Ban Aviator) "out of money on a product that took years to perfect".

I honestly don't know about the other GG thread or those other people that disagree with clones. I was arguing that the concept of clones itself leads to biased non-objectivity, much like this issue about these "cloned" aviator sunglasses we all see in street corners or shopping center booths.

Cheers,
Abe

 

[Idaholandho]

First of all, I love the film.
Anyway it wasnt directed at anyone. I was just going with the sunglasses example. You said that we, I, you may object to the person wearing the sunglasses. I am arguing your point that it would be foolish to judge anyone on what they wear or use for the sake of satisfying their own needs. I judge the origin of said copy. I have had quite a few discussions with modders and if you look back on some of the other threads there has been mention of legal persuit. My benchmark for the discussion would be the impact on builders. It directly
effects them and their personal gain as well as the integrity of the industry.
The greek builders have much respect for themselves and quite a few of us appreciate their hard work for us. Most of the clones coming out in the market are from the orient and it financially hurts builders. Greece can not afford hits at this point economically. As you may know their govt needs to change so builders like GG and PAPS profit and grow. Imeo sleeps 4-5 hours a night for us. He told me this. i see it as a disgrace that clones are made and purchased. I find it hard to believe that someone would buy one to see if they like the real one much like the gentleman above mentioned in his post. Seems ludacris. He said he wants a real one now BUT, if it were a bad one due to the build, Imeo loses a customer. Not good.
Anyway, thanks again for the discussion and Be Well!

 

[imeothanasis]

There is no legal action Ali. I have to patent every GG construction and I need millions to do that

hey imeo why don't you stop these people from cloning your stuff? maybe some legal action???

 

[imeothanasis]

I will combine both systems together fright. I will make preorders for people that like it this way and I will make my batch either that will be big.

I understand. And I was pleased to see in his e-mail that there would be a limit of 1 per customer although I guess some people may have gotten around that. I am happy this experiment helped you decide to stick with pre orders. While small shippments like this are nice for people to get a GG with less wait time between payment and reciept I feel bad for the people who aren't able to get one.

 

[imeothanasis]

I thank you too for your exellent post Idaho my friend. You are right on everything.
I recently received an e-mail from someone that told me that he will make me stop selling my products because he will make a lot of clones out there. I answered him that if he make me stop making GG series then he will not be able to copy me again

I recieved an email from Guru but 10 minutes into sale. The email stated they only had 36 of them. I knew not to even try as they would be gone. I found one member on ECF who carted and paid for 2 TS. I have had to trade for the GG mods that I have and just want to buy a stealth so I can say I have one brand new!

Imeo, weve talked about the clones in the past. We know it will never stop but, ECF should do their part and stop the group buys on the classifieds and any clone thread for sale. Like I have said, the buyers say that thet are easier to get. Well, no shti they are easier to get. Junk is always easier to get than nice equipment. But, most all of us have paid our dues in line and been active in many of your threads. We have all made new freinds here and know how hard you work. It makes us all mad also that some guy pretends to have a mod or device that is fake and knowing we have spent a lot of time working on and helping one another.

ECF should be a NO CLONE ZONE.

Thank you for everything you do for all of us brother.

 

[imeothanasis]

And your post is so true bf.

If anything the clones encourage people to get the real thing. People really like the terminator, so eventually they wonder what the real thing is like. Truth be told a lot of people can't justify buying a 200 dollar atomiser or a 250 dollar mech just because some people on the internet said it was the best. Without clones, those people would never try the real thing. But, instead of being detered by the high price tag and extremely limited supply, they can get a taste of the hype with a clone.

Now me personally, I only bought the terminator because I couldn't wait another month to see what my ithaka will be like. I love it, so now I am even more excited for my ithaka. I bought the mkb ts so I could see what a real gg would be like. If I had the funds, I already would have bought the real thing off the classies by now. Also, I can bring my mkb and terminator c out and about without worrying about scratching it, while my ithaka and gg would take up permanent residence at home

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[imeothanasis]

you are right too abe. We all know that all constructions out there are based on GG series, so we are not talking about similar constructions, we are talking about direct copies. But I do agree that copies will always exist and that doesnt bother anyone at the end of the day.

I have to agree with bfrie here. I can't imagine that anyone sane would be offended that someone was wearing "aviators" that are not either Ray-Bans or Randolphs.

It can be argued that the whole concept of "clones" (which obviously aren't the real deal under close inspection) undermines the original makers' intent. They're only copies, after all, and everyone knows it. If anything, we just have to make sure that people are aware if a manufacturer is copying many (if not all) a maker's innovations.

If we start raving that every derived design is a "clone", we would become blindly judgmental. As an owner of a Terminator-C who has handled an Odyssey (and as an Ithaka pre-orderer) I should know. Think about this: if every commercial industry became "clone obsessed", nobody except the richest ones here would be able to afford Imeo's designs in the first place. Every student would be toting around a Jansport backpack and people would actually be offended by those who don't use AOL!

Let's stay nice and sane, folks. [Of course this does not apply to those still going through puberty, as research shows.] Those of us who are recognize Imeo's innovations in form and function and will pay tribute. Those who don't are either ignorant or a little crazy. Let's educate the former and not waste our time trying to convince the latter--leave them to religion or the shrinks.

Cheers,
Abe

 

[imeothanasis]

Let these guys do what they do and we will do what we do Idaho. Most people will be always after money. But the bad thing is that not only they steal your creations but they are saying bad things about you, even if they dont know you or they never talked to you. Its the old game where when we cant beat the product, we beat other things like availability, manufacturer's reputation etc etc

I can be objective and understand your position. We could go back and forth and argue points all night and day. I choose not to argue and just ask that you value my opinion as I value yours.

I think that if this were on another GG thread in which it was discussed prior, you would find that many disagree with the production of clones. Clones are disruptive in most cases and I struggle watching good builders and inventors lose money due to someone infringing and profiteering on inventors, builders, modders that have poured their blood, sweat and tears into developing the best. I'm not sure how anyone can morally say its ok to copy anything and mass produce. Also if a clone turns out bad the owner of such clone will never buy the real thing and tell all his friends.

Sunglasses? It's definitely not about judging the people wearing them or using clones, it's about judging the morals and ethics of the company that is fking the original developer out of money on a product that took years to perfect.

GL guys thanks for the discussion

 

[imeothanasis]

We all know what is right and what is wrong abe, we just accept some things because its a reality or because we cant stop them. Clones are illegal, thats why patents exists. Even goverments recognizes it, thats why he made the patent system. But its a fake system if you need so much money to patent your constructions. Its a fake game.

Idaho,

It seems to me your post was directed at mine.

In the spirit of objectivity, I think you'll find that many, MANY Chinese sunglass manufacturers "fked" the original developer of this design (the Ray-Ban Aviator) "out of money on a product that took years to perfect".

I honestly don't know about the other GG thread or those other people that disagree with clones. I was arguing that the concept of clones itself leads to biased non-objectivity, much like this issue about these "cloned" aviator sunglasses we all see in street corners or shopping center booths.

Cheers,
Abe

 

[imeothanasis]

Unfortunately, Greece never helped its citizens Idaho, thats why Greeks makes a carrier outside Greece and especially in USA and Germany.

First of all, I love the film.
Anyway it wasnt directed at anyone. I was just going with the sunglasses example. You said that we, I, you may object to the person wearing the sunglasses. I am arguing your point that it would be foolish to judge anyone on what they wear or use for the sake of satisfying their own needs. I judge the origin of said copy. I have had quite a few discussions with modders and if you look back on some of the other threads there has been mention of legal persuit. My benchmark for the discussion would be the impact on builders. It directly
effects them and their personal gain as well as the integrity of the industry.
The greek builders have much respect for themselves and quite a few of us appreciate their hard work for us. Most of the clones coming out in the market are from the orient and it financially hurts builders. Greece can not afford hits at this point economically. As you may know their govt needs to change so builders like GG and PAPS profit and grow. Imeo sleeps 4-5 hours a night for us. He told me this. i see it as a disgrace that clones are made and purchased. I find it hard to believe that someone would buy one to see if they like the real one much like the gentleman above mentioned in his post. Seems ludacris. He said he wants a real one now BUT, if it were a bad one due to the build, Imeo loses a customer. Not good.
Anyway, thanks again for the discussion and Be Well!

 

[subver]

Does anyone know when CoV will have the steel windows in stock? Is there a thread with the status of these?

 

[bfrie]

Now that note on stormys for the term c that says beware of copies, that ...... me off

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[imeothanasis]

steel windows will be made together with telescopic mouthpiece sub. But I will send some steel windows together with Ithaka batch in about 2 weeks

Does anyone know when CoV will have the steel windows in stock? Is there a thread with the status of these?

 

[imeothanasis]

yes, thats the best part bf

And the even better is that their design is unique and they never copied anyone!

Now that note on stormys for the term c that says beware of copies, that ...... me off

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[bfrie]

The terminator is an odyseus clone?

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[Icig]

The terminator is an odyseus clone?

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Yes


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[subver]

steel windows will be made together with telescopic mouthpiece sub. But I will send some steel windows together with Ithaka batch in about 2 weeks

Awesome, thanks Imeo!

 

[ProngATO]

I have to agree with bfrie here. I can't imagine that anyone sane would be offended that someone was wearing "aviators" that are not either Ray-Bans or Randolphs.

It can be argued that the whole concept of "clones" (which obviously aren't the real deal under close inspection) undermines the original makers' intent. They're only copies, after all, and everyone knows it. If anything, we just have to make sure that people are aware if a manufacturer is copying many (if not all) a maker's innovations.

If we start raving that every derived design is a "clone", we would become blindly judgmental. As an owner of a Terminator-C who has handled an Odyssey (and as an Ithaka pre-orderer) I should know. Think about this: if every commercial industry became "clone obsessed", nobody except the richest ones here would be able to afford Imeo's designs in the first place. Every student would be toting around a Jansport backpack and people would actually be offended by those who don't use AOL!

Let's stay nice and sane, folks. [Of course this does not apply to those still going through puberty, as research shows.] Those of us who are recognize Imeo's innovations in form and function and will pay tribute. Those who don't are either ignorant or a little crazy. Let's educate the former and not waste our time trying to convince the latter--leave them to religion or the shrinks.

Cheers,
Abe

Nobody but the richest? Have you seen the price of cigarettes in most states? They're 6.00 a pack in Oklahoma right now. So a pack a day smoker would spend ~180.00 a month on cigarettes. I don't see how "only the richest" can afford GG. Sure people can rave about their 50.00 Chinese vamos and how great they are, then you have the anti-ProVari club that have sour grapes because they can't save their money long enough to afford one. If they just stopped to realize that the money they paid for cigarettes probably far surpasses the price of really good mods and attys, then they would start making sense. I'm pre ordering GG products and grabbing everything I can and I'm STILL not spending as much as I did when I smoked. (I was a 3 pack a day smoker). I'm disabled because of a botched back surgery and I am 40 years old. So I lay most of the time and get bored and used to smoke. If people just start to realize that the return on investment is such a quick turnaround, the price of GG products is moot. Get a ProVari, get GG. Don't mess with crap Chinese products that burn your house down, fall apart in 3 months (my Sigelei). Buy the best first, otherwise you will be looking at your collection of Chinese knockoff junk and realize you could have purchased the best a few times over.


(The above is a generalized statement not directed at any one person but is based on my observations as an electrical engineer and a background in mechanical engineering)

 

[Cloud Wizard]

Right on @Prong!!!! I was a 2PAD smoker and here in PA it was $6.25/pack when I started vaping. I've spent ~$3k on vaping in the last 18 months and folks eyes get big and they start yelling foul until I let them know I've saved over $3k in the same period... They really appreciate it once I let them know that I also haven't needed any COPD meds since I switched, haven't used a rescue inhaler even once (used to need one 1-3/day) and my respiratory therapist told me not to schedule any more regular visits last October (went in every 3 months for the 7 years prior).

So he77 yes, get good stuff that 1) works great, satisfies and keeps you away from imminent slow/painful death and 2) lasts forever...

 

[Moueix]

I certainly agree with Prong, but from my own experience, it isn't necessarily price that drives the clone market. Availability is a VERY large part of the equation.