Juice review website from professional chef

[JENerationX]

Racehorse... if you like all things rice, KBV also makes Momma's Angel Wings... it's a rice pudding.

From Pink Spot, I liked the Swagger, their signature pink spot, and something that was berry but I don't recall the name. None of them were something I'd probably order, I'm too attached to my KBV right now. The Nite Lite Vapor gold on the other hand is something I'm going to have to get my hands on.

 

[JENerationX]

I'm still clueless of the best steeping process I left caps off overnight in dark cool place then shaked & put caps back on to leave for steep time 1-2 days min. Is this the general method people are using or something else?

I do that if I find something that really needs some steeping. Some juices I like fresh out of the mailbox, others are better after a few weeks. It's all up to personal taste really.

 

[chefjosh]

Hey Josh,

thanks for this wonderful thread and the effort put into your web site.

I read the contribution on steeping with interest, particular this bit:


Now, with regards to what is actually happening inside the bottle, the flavour manufacturers seem to have an idea. I quote from Flavour Art's website:



Now the interesting thing I find here is that they indeed do compare this to wine aging and even allude that the chemical processes are of a similar sort.

Just trying to kindle a bit of discussion about the subject here, as the "wonders of steeping" keep fascinating me. Juices that are terrible may become favourite vapes after a week or so.

All the best and keep up the good work,

Ozy.

Wow! That's awesome information. Thanks for doing the footwork for us, Ozy. It's much appreciated.

I'm still not sure I understand exactly what's happening, since, again, I'm not a chemist. While it may be similar to some of the processes in wine aging, I'm still not entirely comfortable with using it as more than a basic aging analogy, even though it may be the easiest way to help some people to wrap their head around the idea of steeping.

What it boils down to, is that I need to learn a bit more about the process. Here's what I DO know. Oxidation definitely occurs while we steep our juice, thus we sometimes see color changes occur as the juice turns darker than the color that we received it at, something I should have thought of while writing my first post on the subject. I don't think keeping the lid off will speed this up as the amount of oxygen already in the bottle is more than enough to oxidize, but I don't rightly know. Oxidation in wine however, is bad, very bad. It's an undesired consequence of wine that was poorly bottled or corked and is usually tossed in the trash or turned into vinegar.

As far as development of acetals, hydrolosis, and esterification, I have only the simplest of understandings of those processes and couldn't confirm or deny the occurrence of those during the steeping process, but the guys at Flavour Art tend to really know what they're talking about when it comes to flavors and juice, so if they say it's happening, I have to believe they are correct. If/when I have some extra time on my hands, I will do some more research...unless someone with a chemistry background happens to stumble across out little thread and can shed a bit more light on the topic.

Again, Thanks Ozy for the kind words and more importantly, the steeping information.

 

[frequentj]

I always thought of steeping as the same process as, say, sun tea, or chili. When you first make a juice, it's unflavored PG and/or VG with flavor molecules suspended in it. If you vape it right away, you may or may not get consistent flavor, but if you allow it to steep, it's no longer unflavored pg/vg with flavor suspended in it, but rather a homogeneous mixture with all the flavors blended together. I have noticed that letting the juice breathe while steeping helps a lot with some flavors. Like things with banana - the banana flavoring sort of smells like nail polish remover in its concentrated form, and I swear it puts off fumes! Letting it air out now and then will soften and mellow it. Just my $0.02!

 

[n874]

Thanks frequentj you would think the 10-14 days it takes to get juice from OS should be enough to allow for a decent steep... Sorry for the highjack...

 

[Varrius]

As far as development of acetals, hydrolosis, and esterification, I have only the simplest of understandings of those processes and couldn't confirm or deny the occurrence of those during the steeping process, but the guys at Flavour Art tend to really know what they're talking about when it comes to flavors and juice, so if they say it's happening, I have to believe they are correct. If/when I have some extra time on my hands, I will do some more research...unless someone with a chemistry background happens to stumble across out little thread and can shed a bit more light on the topic.

While I have the required chemical background (BS. ChemE), having the time to research what's going on in those little bottles is another matter. It's been quite a few years since I've used a lot of my basic chemistry and I'd have to crack some books open to refresh my memory. If I can find the time I'll definately try and research this a bit to see what I can come up with.

As a side note, it looks like we may both have been wrong about steeping merely being a blending of flavors, and chemistry is actually happening while it steeps. Interesting, to say the least.

 

[Varrius]

People who want a high % of VG or PG-free can't use Halo, just want to mention. They also don't reveal, which is a pproblem for many of us.

Or if they have an adversion to vaping baby powder....

I should clarify that snarky comment by mentioning that my Halo juices haven't had a lot of time to steep yet, so I'll see if things improve. Outside of the chemical-baby powderish taste I'm getting from them, I really do like the rest of what I"m experiencing with them, but I also tend to get headaches with too much PG so I don't know if they would be a long term solution for me anyway since they won't tell us how much PG/VG is in them (a practice I REALLY don't care for in an unregulated industry). I mean, if they won't tell us about the ratio, what else is in there that they won't tell us about?

Edit: I just want to be fair to Halo and say that since originally posting the above, I have tried another of their flavors, which had a few more days to steep also, and it has no funny chemical or baby powderish tastes to me. In fact I quite like it. For clarification, the one I didn't care for was Longhorn, and the one I do like somewhat is Torque56.

 

[hottls]

Thank you for this! Bookmarked!

 

[DC2]

So I was playing around with some ideas...

How about every $1.00 donated through your website counts as a vote for a juice someone would like to see reviewed?
A person could put in the comments of the donation how they want to allocate their vote(s) depending on how much they donate.

--Maybe this would spur more donations
--Maybe this would provide an effective means of gauging interest in certain juices to be reviewed
--Maybe this would help alleviate the need for selling advertising space to juice vendors

Of course I understand that tallying those votes might be a nightmare.
So perhaps there is some refinement that is needed in this concept.

But I do know that I would donate to your cause if I felt you would be more likely to review juices I would like to see reviewed.

As it is, your website is a bit light on tobacco reviews, which is what I tend to vape.
I don't do ANY fruit flavors, even after trying nearly 100 of them.


Just some thoughts...

 

[gthompson]

The donate button doesn't seem to work.

 

[Varrius]

...Of course I understand that tallying those votes might be a nightmare...

Counting money is never a nightmare I've personally objected too

I like your idea, I had thought something like that might work well, and help him get more funding for juice samples.

The downside to this is that I could just buy the juices myself and try them if I'm going to spend money. Most vendors have small sample sizes that can be had fairly cheap, so unless I was only going to donate 1 or 2 dollars for a particular juice (which would help him some, but not a whole lot), then I figure I might as well just buy it myself.

Then again, I suppose if 50 people want a particular juice reviewed and they all donate a buck or two, that would be enough for him to purchase the juice and pay for some webhosting service, so maybe it could work if the volume of donations is high enough.

 

[chefjosh]

The donate button doesn't seem to work.

Crap.

Works in everything but IE for me. That button has been a giant pain in my ..... I'll respond to DC2's comments when I get some more time, but I do like it.

I gotta try and figure out why the button fails in IE.

gthompson, if you're using something other than IE and it's still not working for you, please let me know ASAP.

I'm on the IE problem, and if I can't figure it out, the guy I use for the more complex coding is coming by tomorrow night and I'll have him take a look at it then. Just one more thing to keep me from actually reviewing.

 

[gthompson]

Does not work in IE
Does not work in FireFox

Does work in Chrome

For me

 

[chefjosh]

Does not work in IE
Does not work in FireFox

Does work in Chrome


For me

I see...we must be running different versions. I'm out right now, but will probably just go back to the standard button when I get home.

 

[gthompson]

My IE is 9.0.8112
My Firefox is 14.0.1
My Chrome is 21.0.1180

 

[ozy.mandias]

Hey Josh,

to continue the footwork on the steeping matter, I did have a discussion with a savvy friend of mine:

My question was why there was a steeping process, when the flavours are most of the time already dissolved in PG as a carrier solution. Thinning it with more PG (or even VG) should not change the actual composition (or flavour profile).

Apparently my assumption was wrong.

A lot of flavourings contain esters and ketones. If I have this right, an ester combines an alcohol with an acid. PG and VG are also alcohols. When blending a flavour with the PG/VG base there is a process call ester interchange, which releases the alcohol from the flavouring fluid, causing the remaining acid to attach itself to with the alcohol in the PG.

This is responsible for the change in taste, as we have just created a new compound.

Apparently a similar reaction happens to the Ketones, these break down or change into acetals (which taste differently).

Add natural oxidation and deterioration, yes, it looks like something IS actually happening when maturing the juice.

What I forgot to ask is if the above reactions also take place when maturing wine (obviously there is no PG/VG in but the cheapest of wines ) but maybe someone reading this could find this out.

That's it for now,
All the best,

Ozy

 

[chefjosh]

Hey Josh,

to continue the footwork on the steeping matter, I did have a discussion with a savvy friend of mine:

My question was why there was a steeping process, when the flavours are most of the time already dissolved in PG as a carrier solution. Thinning it with more PG (or even VG) should not change the actual composition (or flavour profile).

Apparently my assumption was wrong.

A lot of flavourings contain esters and ketones. If I have this right, an ester combines an alcohol with an acid. PG and VG are also alcohols. When blending a flavour with the PG/VG base there is a process call ester interchange, which releases the alcohol from the flavouring fluid, causing the remaining acid to attach itself to with the alcohol in the PG.

This is responsible for the change in taste, as we have just created a new compound.

Apparently a similar reaction happens to the Ketones, these break down or change into acetals (which taste differently).

Add natural oxidation and deterioration, yes, it looks like something IS actually happening when maturing the juice.

What I forgot to ask is if the above reactions also take place when maturing wine (obviously there is no PG/VG in but the cheapest of wines ) but maybe someone reading this could find this out.

That's it for now,
All the best,

Ozy

I can break out my old textbook from my Wine class...I know I have it around here somewhere. Now that we know what's happening in the juice, I have something to compare it with. I have a big day in front of me, but I should be able to find the information at some point over the weekend.

 

[Blackrain]

Wow look's great!

 

[Harplayr]

One thing I always wondered about is if a juice steeps in a clearo or tank?

I tend to use CE3's and when testing new juice I fill one and vape a few puffs every day or so. I find that juices taste different to me from day to day or depending on what I just vaped or ate, so this allows me to test over time and under different conditions. This can span a couple of weeks before the CE3 is finished, so I was interested in your thoughts if sitting in the clearo will have the juice steep like it would sitting in a bottle.

 

[Racehorse]

Racehorse... if you like all things rice, KBV also makes Momma's Angel Wings... it's a rice pudding.

Thank you Jen, now see, this is one I NEVER would have known about.