Just my luck!

[GoodNews!]

So yeah guys, Fluxomizer #2, with a 24-hour juice soak and using Velvet Cloud Vapor's miracle juice, it is vaping so smoothly, cleanly, and it is absolutely churning out clouds of moist vapor - THIS is what a little clearo should perform like!

Sadly, 24-hour soak didn't work so well with the Blueberry, the 70/30PG/VG. I have a huge big old theory that 2.4ohms is just too hot for anything with PG in it. Or that that the wire in clearos have a tendency to warp and overlap, causing hotspots and weird shorts that fry the silica.

If I can work to find the perfect, one-of-a-kind juice that works superbly with clearo devices (literally, this second Fluxo is the BEST device I've had in my stock), then companies can work to make their devices cooler and a bit more well-made.

Proof of what I'm talking about. That first Fluxo was crap. This second one, even right off the bat, it was %50 better, and with a good liquid soak, it's 100%. Not the case with the first one, or the juice I used for it, which was 100000000000000x thinner than VCV.

By all accounts, VCV should be giving me fried hits. But it's not. As always, their juice, rather than wicking badly, possibly proves a temperature theory.

All I have left to do is break open the Fluxo and see if the first one is badly wrapped.

Edit: And just now, I vaped a whole 1ml of juice, and when the juice was gone, the VCV filled Fluxo gave a dry hit like the Blueberry filled-Fluxo did. But the tank was DRY. This means that PG must allow a coil that uses too-thin of wiring to get so hot that the coils tighten and overlap themselves (I've physically seen this phenomenon) and then the clearo goes to crap.

If I prove this theory, then ya know, I probably just revolutionized the world of vaping. Companies will start using thicker wire for their clearos, or higher ohms. Juice makers will start mixing a lot more VG into the mix (it wicks just as well as anything else, I don't care what anyone says). Every single experience I've had, it's led up to this theory and just a few others.

I mean, if all it took to turn a small clearo into an RDA-performing, crystal-clean tasting device is simply upping the ohms, thickening the wire (no matter the ohms), and using VG juices with a good 24-hour soak period, wouldn't ya'll want that? That's the result I'm getting just now.

 

[VapoJoe86]

I use my Innokin MVP 2 as my ohm checker. It has no problem measuring in the sub-ohm range accurately, as verified by a multimeter. It only reads to the tenth of the ohm but I have found that I really don't need a higher resolution than that. Just my two cents.

 

[GoodNews!]

^Yeah, the guy at the shop is bringing an MVP2 to the store just in case I want it. I'm deciding between a device that can handle sub-ohm (like, you know, if I accidentally wrapped a 1.2 coil or for some reason wanted to) and a device like the MVP2 that can both ohm read and protect against shorts (it doesn't fire if it detects a short, from what he said.

Anyway, yeah, I believe there's a huge defect with clearo and head type devices where the wire gauge is simply too thin, and forms cross-wraps and stuff with any PG juice being vaped. That's my theory and I'm out to prove it. You see RDA'ers having trouble with thin gauges all the time and reporting the same problems because of it, it makes sense.

On a device that doesn't wick like an RDA build, the ohms and sturdiness of the coils MATTER. Just a bit too low of ohms or too high of power, and it'll taste bad no matter if your even using VCV juice. But PG simply doesn't do these devices justice. It doesn't allow them to perform, according to my tests. If I vape PG, the coil will look great, vape it once, and then it's a twisted up mess, more or less.

Of coarse, coils can simply be wrapped that way too, and it's another huge problem IMO, but this Flux with the VCV juice proves that silica CAN taste clean, and that clearomizers CAN give a great result worth vaping. The flavor isn't strong because IMO it's not micro-coil wrapped like Cisco atomizers generally are, but the result is CLEAN regardless.

Another scientific claim to back this up, is with the VCV juice, it tastes the best when there's NO SIZZLING OR POPPING. I'm a huge proponent that a silent vape tastes the best - the Cisco was silent too, even with PG. With the PG juice in the Flux, it sounded like sausages being cooked. That means the juice and coils are getting TOO HOT, which causes a "dry" taste even if the wick is wicking well. The juice simply evaporated too quickly!

Summary:
- Try for a vape that doesn't sizzle.
- Try a thick VG juice.
- Try higher ohms.
- Yet, try to get a micro-coil to do that.

Once you accomplish it, IMO, you'll get what I did on the Cisco, cuz Cisco 3.5ohm be built that way!
It was flavor heaven, and while dude at the shop had one clean tasting RDA, the flavor was nothing compared to the Cisco. It was clean as heck, pure cleanliness, but just, the flavor wasn't there. At all really. Flavor guys need to lower those ohms IMO!

I mean, if anyone on this forum just loves experimenting and tweaking, and wanted to see the results before I get them, try building like a 3.0-3.2ohm microcoil. It's a microcoil, so it'll produce a ton of vapor regardless, but I'm eager to see if it changes the flavor profiles to the other side of the universe. The 3.5ohm Cisco also delivered nicotine better than any other device - not a "throat hit" at all, but the nicotine delivery was something unreal - it was the only atomizer that actually got me "buzzed off my ....."

Makes sense too, because I could entertain the idea that too high of temperatures simply fry the nicotine and don't deliver it, that the "harshness" one can get from an RDA is just more to do with flavor ingredients and wick mess, and roasted nicotine at that. The nicotine should be gently vaporized, according to what scientifically makes sense, only enough to turn it into barely physical gas. Gas can be too hot. It can loose it's own properties at certain heat. It can also be too cold.

But where as it'd be too cold and not vaporized enough on a regular 3.5ohm coil, I believe a micro coil version would solve that. I may be totally mistaken, but it's a theory I'm so eager to test! The theory just seems to make sense to me though.

Also, is there any truth to the possibility that companies used higher ohms in brands like Blu and mess when vaping was first introduced? It could explain why I loved those products so much YEARS ago and how they suck now.

 

[PLANofMAN]

...I have a huge big old theory that 2.4ohms is just too hot for anything with PG in it. Or that that the wire in clearos have a tendency to warp and overlap, causing hotspots and weird shorts that fry the silica...

...If I prove this theory, then ya know, I probably just revolutionized the world of vaping. Companies will start using thicker wire for their clearos, or higher ohms. Juice makers will start mixing a lot more VG into the mix (it wicks just as well as anything else, I don't care what anyone says). Every single experience I've had, it's led up to this theory and just a few others.

I mean, if all it took to turn a small clearo into an RDA-performing, crystal-clean tasting device is simply upping the ohms, thickening the wire (no matter the ohms), and using VG juices with a good 24-hour soak period, wouldn't ya'll want that? That's the result I'm getting just now.

Your theory is wrong (Thank goodness). I think you might be sensitive to Nichrome (which is what clearos and most pre-coiled/wicked stuff uses) and you might be less sensitive to Kanthal A1, which is what most people who rebuild coils use. I wonder if the Cisco uses Kanthal wire?

^Yeah, the guy at the shop is bringing an MVP2 to the store just in case I want it. I'm deciding between a device that can handle sub-ohm (like, you know, if I accidentally wrapped a 1.2 coil or for some reason wanted to) and a device like the MVP2 that can both ohm read and protect against shorts (it doesn't fire if it detects a short, from what he said.

Get the MVP2! Don't think about it. Just do it.

It throws a flat DC signal like a Provari, so you should get just as good a vape off of it. Once you taste an accurate set voltage/wattage flat DC signal, you won't want to look back, and you'll probably never buy a twist again.

For people who are "tasters," that flat signal output is crucial for enjoying their vape. Mechs put out a flat DC line, and so do a few VV/VW mods. The MVP2 is one such mod.

To be perfectly honest and blunt, you are not ready to try sub-oHm vaping. There remains a lot of study about both mechs and batteries that you need to learn before you are ready to go that route.

 

[GoodNews!]

Cisco builds their own coils, so I garuntee it's Kanthal wire. I totally did not know most disposable heads and such are built with Nichrome, no one's ever said that...

Dunno what the Flux's use, but I made them taste good with my theory none the less. As I test, I actually just dropped ONE drop of PG liquid into the mix, and the whole tank of juice began to "thin out" and suddenly, I was getting the hashy, hot, nasty, vape again. It began sizzling and popping. I had to drip about 10 drops of VG back in the mix to get it to finally go away.

I'm not sensitive to PG either, PG worked fine in the Cisco. It worked better than VG in it, to be honest. A lot more flavor than what the VG delivered.

The kanthal vs. nichrome thing could explain the bad taste of the silica dust. Could it be that the nichrome is coating the silica particles with a meticallic-ish type chemical that to my tongue just tastes like vaporized socks?

Like I said, with VG, in the beginning of the 2nd Flux, the "dust" was still there, but it didn't "taste" bad. As of now, the dust has seemed to go away, no bad flavors unless it runs dry. That's the big mystery of this.

P.S. I can also chain vape to the VG theory. I'm doing puff after puff after puff after puff, like 4 puffs in a 20 second time frame, and I can't keep up with this device using the VG theory. It has transformed this device entirely.

Haven't coughed one time while vaping it! If it was being wicky on me, I'd have been coughing several times!

 

[PLANofMAN]

You might find these helpful:

Question on the Nichrome - is it possible they used cobalt in the manufacturing process? It's often used in manufacturing cheaper nickel and chromium products, such as jewelry, and is known for causing allergies, with rates as high as 9%.

It is also possible to be allergic to chrome or nickel themselves, but less likely - closer to 5% and 4% respectively. So you could add it up and say that as many as one in five people will have a problem with cheaply manufactured nichrome coils that may contain cobalt, and as many as one in ten could have a problem with cobalt-free coils.

Kanthal wire contains iron, chromium, and aluminum, with a much smaller chance of an allergic reaction; 5% for the chromium, well under 1% for aluminum, and if you were allergic to iron, you'd know. You could generalize this and say that one in twenty might have an allergic reaction to kanthal coils.

Keep in mind that these numbers are for a reaction of any kind - something minor could even be mistaken for throat hit; I've read posts about people describing TH as an itchy sensation. The chances of a more serious reaction could be one in thousands.

I find the nichrome gives a sharper, crisper, maybe tangier vape, with Kanthal being smoother.

And you might find this thread interesting as well. It probably explains your *cough* instant throat infection that you got a while back.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...rgic-reaction-whats-used-stock-coil-help.html

 

[PLANofMAN]

Cisco builds their own coils, so I garuntee it's Kanthal wire. I totally did not know most disposable heads and such are built with Nichrome, no one's ever said that...

I found this:

So last night there was a new show that debuted on eCigTV. It's hosted by Cisco (owner of Avid Vapor) and Drew (owner of NHaler). The aim of the show is to cover all the different areas of vaping devices and hardware. Last nights show was all about the classic atomizer. I guess that is a good place to start, because it was the first way e-cigs created vapor and still widely used today. In fact I'd guess that every serious vaper still has a plain old atomizer at hand.

Now for those not familiar with Cisco, he may be considered a guru when it comes to atmoizers. Avid sells the famous HH357, a custom made atomizer designed and built by Hanna Hadwera using 'Cisco Spec' coils. Avid also sells a whole line of 'Cisco Spec' atomizers as well. I had always wondered just exactly what Cisco spec was, and had assumed that for the most part it meant the coils were held to very tight tolerances in their resistance values. Well last night Cisco gave some very interesting information that I'm not sure has ever been said in public before.

During the discussion Cisco was talking about the differences in kanthal and NiChrome. Someone asked him specifically which alloy he used for his atomizers. He then revealed that he does not use either nichrome or kanthal, but a different alloy. He buys the wire from Germany, removes the labels and then sends it to the factory in China that builds his Cisco spec atomizers. He said he specifically does not want the Chinese to know what he's using.

http://www.ecigadvanced.com/forums/general-vaping-discussion-f12/a-differnt-coil-alloy-t6400.html

 

[GoodNews!]

Hm, very possibly could, that particular e-cig was quite Chinese and tasted like metal.

But I'm wondering why the VG theory is working so well, the same as it has shown improvements to other devices (namely, the Aspire and the hemp-wicked Smokin' Crow, which tasted like hemp dust if I used PG with it).

I really need to order some more juices from VCV and find out, specifically with some fruits, because fruits are the worst when it comes to being able to taste this taste I get, the juices themselves are just so clean.

Then again, hey, it may have to do with how VCV are one of the "all organic" companies. Dunno.

Edit: Oh wow, I did not know Cisco uses totally different wire than Kanthal or NiChrome, wow...

Geesus H. Christ.

This is what it boils down to for me? The fact that I may hate Kanthal and NiChrome?

... How will I ever vape?...

 

[TheJakeBailey]

Couple of things with carto tanks... There are still some variables here that you can fine tune, and may need to. How many holes, slots, punched yourself or pre punched, what ohms, and what tank, single coil or dual coil, etc. If you are using the thicker VG juices you may want to try slotted, or at least two punch. (I don't use heavy vg, but that is what I've seen around the forum.) With your super taste buds, I would think you should stick with single coil. The dual coils are easier to burn, and seem to require keeping the tank fuller. How well the tank seals up will have a big impact on everything. If you decide that carto tanks work well for you, you may want to look into a nice tank. Also, i have found that the cartos need a little break in time too. Give it a day or so.

Good luck!

ETA: Get the MVP. It does everything you need. Stay away from sub ohm. You aren't ready for that! (Neither am I, but I know it.)

 

[Thrasher]

Could very easily be Rene' 41 wire. being a harder wire it could also explain why the cisco atty holds up so well for so long.

 

[GoodNews!]

Yeah, it's definately something that the carto tanks are tasting "clean" to me, generally, but for some reason, I'm getting a super clean (even better) taste combining these Fluxomizers (which are special, as they have huge gaping spaces in the wick slot, causing a constant flow of juice if vaped upside down) and pure VG juice. It seems to have like a coating/cooling effect on the coils themselves.

 

[Asbestos4004]

Heres a thought....stick with the Fluxometers and high quality, all organic. 100% VG juices from our fine friends at Velvet Cloud Vapor. (the shameless plugs are getting to be a bit obnoxious)
Here's the thing, GN....taste is SUBJECTIVE. For example, I hate vcv juices. Its not my coils, my wicks, my battery....I just hate their juice. Not their fault at all. You like it. So....you found a device you like that works well with the juice you like....just use it and be happy. It'll be much easier than trying to wage this war on Big PG that you seem to want to start. People like pg....I like VG....some like both ....what's it matter? I have devices that pop and crackle a bit and they are performing perfectly well. I have some that are quiet, again, working great. Higher ohm coils don't work well for me....neither do sub ohm coils. I like to be between 1 and 1.5 ohms. 1 ohm on my genesis style attys, 1.2 on my kayfuns, 1.5 on my Reo. Its what works for me. If high ohm works for you, then thats great! But you're not going to change the world of vaping with that discovery simply because all you really discovered is what YOU like. Lower ohm coils give me better flavor. You'd probably not like my set up, but thats ok...its not yours. The guy at your store was probably happy with the flavor he was getting from his build. You thought it was muted. So what? Its his. Tell him to jack up his ohms into the 3.5 range like in your Cisco so he can really experience a good flavorful vape. He'll giggle a little. He likes sub ohm.
What works for you is simply what works for you. Its not an industry changer. Settle down and simply enjoy that Fluxometer....watch that movie you've been wanting to watch. I think its awesome that you found something thats working for you. Having a working device on hand makes playing with rba's a lot less stressful. Good luck!

 

[GoodNews!]

Well, the thing is, though it's a clean flavor, the Flux's aren't really giving much flavoring from the VCV juices. It's almost like pure, clean vapor.

I don't particularly have much luck with their flavorings - their flavors so far are odd, Burley Beard is like vaping sweet grass or something. It's extraordinarily clean. Quite sweet. But a little like grass oil. I ain't complimenting their flavors too much.

The flavor is like the one last picture to complete. I have a feeling a berry juice by them would be like the perfect thing for the type of vapor I'm getting from their juices though, so I'm placing an order on that.

But I mean, for some strange reason or the other, the 3.5ohm coil in the Cisco about knocked me down with how juicy and full each flavor was, and the dude's 0.3ohm coil, it was heavenly smooth, just as good as the Cisco or Flux+VG, maybe better, just, there was like, no flavor at all.

I can't help that lol. I mean, he seemed more the cloud chaser type. I'm more out to get that huge flavor saturation that is as solid as the vapor itself.

I mean, concerning flavor strength, there were Evods that were giving more flavor! But like I said, I'm not trying to insult his build, it was literally probably the cleanest thing I've ever vaped, just, I didn't taste much at all.

It can't hurt just to ponder at what type of builds and factors effect this. Right now, there's so many things in my head as to what could be a problem - wire type, wicking material, ohms, airflow, juice base, anything. But it's a result I've gotten before on the Cisco, and geez - like I said, the flavor I was getting, it knocked me down... loved it.

It was like eating an actual food the flavor was so pure and so thick!

 

[danny4x4]

Good News, what Asbestos was trying to tell you is this :

What rocks you may actually taste like socks to me, and vice versa. Do not think that your "discoveries" will change this fact.

 

[GoodNews!]

I just dunno... some people like mustard, some do not, but I've never heard of anyone that can't taste something as strong as mustard.

You'd think that with an 0.3ohm coil, that if it was churning out that flavor, that anyone under the face of the sun should taste a big wallup of flavor hitting them in the face.

Preferrences are preferrences, but there's a difference between someone who's colorblind and someone who has a genetic mutation that allows them to see the color of certain UV rays differently (true condition).

If I didn't like the flavor, I would have said so, ya'll know that. But I was tasting almost nothing. Surely the human tongue isn't that varied.

My bad tastes could be explained by a number of scientific things, but not tasting anything at all on a 0.3ohm build? You'd probably have to have some serious smoker's tongue for that!

I mean, with all the theories that I'm studying, it could have just been that, at the very best it can do, Kanthal is just a "flavor blocker" me (a flavor blocker that actually tastes horrid when it's not saturated with juice...), but that'd be a pretty weird effect.

P.S. He might have said the build was like 0.83ohms - it was some super extremely low number that my mouth dropped at, and I don't think my mouth would have dropped at 0.3ohms because I've heard of that before, I think.

 

[Asbestos4004]

Right, I know you weren't insulting his build. You were complimenting it...it just lacked flavor...TO YOU. He might love the flavor he's getting from it. You might hand him your perfect Cisco performing at its peak and it probably wouldn't do jack for him. Some folks prefer nicrome over kanthal....cotton over silica....
Most of us have found what works for us...we're generally not waiting for you to solve the riddle for us. We've already solved it, FOR US. We're trying to help you solve it FOR YOU.
Side note...as a super taster...is it really fair for you to review products based on taste? Carto tanks work really well for many. They worked for me for a while. I still use them from time to time. Most people don't have super taste buds. Why not keep your reviews based on performance without the extreme flavor descriptions? You're 1 in a million that's going to be put off completely by the taste of a carto. Its an excellent device for new vapors who want hassle free vaping. Your reviews might send the wrong message and cost a new guy the opportunity to find their new all day device. You might notice, the real reviewers go out of their way to point out that these are just their opinions. You tend to say things are just garbage....not in your opinion ...just garbage. Thats not really fair.

 

[Asbestos4004]

P.S. .83 ohms is way higher than .3 ohms. Keep studying. Lack of knowledge and understanding is the number 1 cause of disasters rebuilding and vaping in general.

 

[GoodNews!]

Well, I mean, the question has to be asked - exactly how many people on this forum have actually tried the 3.5 ohm Cisco atty, or anything by Cisco that wasn't 0.283892ohms?

Granted, I haven't tried their low-ohm drippers, I want to, I'd smack down my theories right then and there.

And the difference between 0.83ohms and 0.3ohms wouldn't make a slick lick worth of difference to me, I sure wouldn't try for that.

Simple math error. I was thinking of 0.3ohms as being 0.03ohms. 0.3ohms is same thing as 0.30ohms. I've been awake for like 34 hours so meh.

 

[xyanide]

Uhmmm... The clean vapor 'flavor' you're experiencing from that 100% VG juice is mostly likely because it's not wicking properly in the fluxomizer. I experienced it before in rebuildables.

 

[GoodNews!]

Uhmmm... The clean vapor 'flavor' you're experiencing from that 100% VG juice is mostly likely because it's not wicking properly in the fluxomizer. I experienced it before in rebuildables.

I thought so too when the vapor was clean flavored but had a clean silica texture/bite regardless, but a 24hour soak seemed to completely change the picture. I'm getting flavor from it, and it only tastes bad when I don't vape it upside down.

VCV's Candy Bar comes through quite well on it (half as strong as the Cisco, but tasty in it's own right - the flavors are more blended together and less layered). But I don't have enough of that juice, so I'm sort of slowly blending it with the Burley Beard, where it'll taste like the Candy Bar for a few seconds, then give way to more of the Beard.

The Beard is tasting almost just like it did on the Cisco, just a bit less of the NET combusted tone that the juice had with the Cisco's tighter coil. The Beard as a juice itself just tastes "very clean" or like "herbal oil" on a coil that isn't designed to vaporize the complex textures of it.

One way I know it's wicking is that it goes through 1ml of juice in about an hour of not-so-constant vaping. The plumes this thing is producing are so huge and moist that it's unreal.