Kanger subtank TSCs

[retird]

I have all 3 versions of the Kangertech Subtank, the mini works OK with the rba section built with nickel wire, but the refinement kills it. The Nano works the best with the nickel OCC coils for me. It does occaisionally get nixed by the "refinement". I have found that it just takes a little tinkering...

I leave mine set at 400 degrees and the refinement thing only occurs if I set it down for a long period of time. So if I do that I just remove and re-install the tank and select new coil... It just works for me...

I also use the nano with OCC coils and do not have the same experience as you...no refinement issues and etc. I run mine at 420-430F @17 watts and only time ohm's creeps up is when the 510 center pins get a bit dirty on just one of my mods... clean the pins and all is back to normal again..... Removing an reinstalling the tank to reset is not the way to use the DNA40..or the DNA25 for that matter...

 

[Confuzzled1969]

I also use the nano with OCC coils and do not have the same experience as you...no refinement issues and etc. I run mine at 420-430F @17 watts and only time ohm's creeps up is when the 510 center pins get a bit dirty on just one of my mods... clean the pins and all is back to normal again..... Removing an reinstalling the tank to reset is not the way to use the DNA40..or the DNA25 for that matter...

On my RDA's and when using the RBA section on the sub-tank mini, the refinements work fine.

Using the Nickel OCC coils in either the Mini or the Nano, (more so on the mini) sometimes the refinements do not work so well and the vapor is much cooler than before.

I pull the atomizer off, and then put it back on after allowing the mod and atty to get to what I think is close to the same temp.

I re-install it and select new coil to reset the baseline... I do this because the mod is NOT functioning correctly at this moment and I can tell that there is no way it is heating to 400 degrees. I believe the reason the mod is not functioning correctly is that there is a connection issue within the OCC coil itself, after all, this is the only time it has happened...

I believe that cranking up the temperature at this point is setting a temp that is simply not accurate. And since the mod is not regulating to the proper temp, I reset it to the same temp, kinda like re-booting a computer.

At this point, when it is not operating correctly, I don't care what the proper operating instructions are, the thing is not working right, period.

I saw PBusardo do exactly the same thing in his review of the DNA 40, perhaps you should go watch it and see what I am talking about.

Does it follow Evolv's instructions? No clue, it works for me, so I do it.

Over all I am very happy with my DNA 40 device, but you know what, Evolv still has some work to do before they get this right.

They are on the right track, but they are not there yet. And quite frankly, I don't care if I am not using it according to their instructions, it works for me

 

[retird]

If it works for you then that's all that matters.....

 

[Carnage9270]

The nickel coils for RTAs are always going to be screwy on a DNA TC chip. There's just no way around it. Some people notice the refinement and others don't. But there is definitely refinement happening and changing the temperature. The way RTA coils are made work against nickel builds. Evolv has stated that a .01 difference in resistance can throw the temperature off by 20 degrees. Now think about the RTA coils and how they are put together. The firing pin is put through an insulator (basically rubber) and the coil is making contact through pressure. That pressure can change constantly. This doesn't happen with RBA's because the coil is secured with screws that tighten down firmly.

Like I said though, some people notice the refinement and some people don't. But it's most definitely there on RTA coils.

 

[retird]

Refinement is a function of the DNA....every rta/rba/occ coils I've used refines .01/.02 and sometimes .03 in my experience... not a issue....nothing screwy with the DNA...at least that's my experience over the past 6 months or so...

 

[Carnage9270]

I wan't saying the DNA was screwy. But using RTA coils on the DNA is. Like i said, refinement happens and throws the temperature off by upwards of 60 degrees on .03. Some people notice this and end up rescrewing their atty back on to fix it, some people don't notice it and vape on like it's no big deal. There's nothing faulty with the DNA chip in any way. In fact, it's behaving like it's supposed to. My point was, refinement happens on RTA nickel coils whether we like it or not...some cope with it better than others. If one person re-attaches their atty to bring it back to the temperature they like and another person just vapes away and ignores it, that doesn't make either person wrong, it's just how they choose to control their vape.

 

[retird]

RBA's refine too....the key to a good vape is to let the topper (rba,rta, occ coils/etc.) refine and then fine tune your setting after refinement...at least that's my take on it...

 

[Confuzzled1969]

The nickel coils for RTAs are always going to be screwy on a DNA TC chip. There's just no way around it. Some people notice the refinement and others don't. But there is definitely refinement happening and changing the temperature. The way RTA coils are made work against nickel builds. Evolv has stated that a .01 difference in resistance can throw the temperature off by 20 degrees. Now think about the RTA coils and how they are put together. The firing pin is put through an insulator (basically rubber) and the coil is making contact through pressure. That pressure can change constantly. This doesn't happen with RBA's because the coil is secured with screws that tighten down firmly.

Like I said though, some people notice the refinement and some people don't. But it's most definitely there on RTA coils.

I don't notice it with rebuildables though, I only notice it on the pre-made coils, such as Kangertech's OCC coils...

And I too attribute it to the connections in the coil... What I can't figure out, why is it more pronounced in the Sub-tank mini than it is in the Nano

 

[Carnage9270]

I don't notice it with rebuildables though, I only notice it on the pre-made coils, such as Kangertech's OCC coils...

And I too attribute it to the connections in the coil... What I can't figure out, why is it more pronounced in the Sub-tank mini than it is in the Nano

Honestly don't know there. Could be resistances in the firing pin etc. Lots of variables there. I know exactly where you are coming from with this stuff though. I am sensitive to the temperature changes after refinement. I can taste the difference in my juice with a small change in temperature. I've just become thick skinned to the fact that every now and then I have to unscrew my atty a couple turns and screw her back down

 

[retird]

I don't notice it with rebuildables though, I only notice it on the pre-made coils, such as Kangertech's OCC coils...

And I too attribute it to the connections in the coil... What I can't figure out, why is it more pronounced in the Sub-tank mini than it is in the Nano

I can't answer that as I don't have a mini....but on my Sub-tank nano and my Aspire nautilus mini both using pre-made nickel coils (and sometimes non-temp coils) I am very pleased (no problem with connections inside the coil).... I no longer build coils and only use pre-made ones...I like it simple....just waiting for Atlantis nickel pre-made coils (if they ever come out)....

 

[Woofer]

I saw PBusardo do exactly the same thing in his review of the DNA 40, perhaps you should go watch it and see what I am talking about.

Do realize there are many people contributing to ECF DNA threads who know vastly more about the DNA 40 then Busardo does, just sayin'

 

[dr g]

I saw PBusardo do exactly the same thing in his review of the DNA 40, perhaps you should go watch it and see what I am talking about.

Busardo was wrong to do this, wrong on this issue, and did a huge disservice to the TC community with that video.

The bottom line is screwing/unscrewing the atomizer to trick the board into reading differently after refinement is WRONG. The more people promoting it, the more confusion there is among TC users.

Adjust your temperature and be done with it.

RTA coils are in tiny chambers surrounded by liquid. Of course they might refine more than open-air drippers.

 

[retird]

If pBusardo spent the same amount of time learning how to use the 40's as he spent making the video review he would have had a different results and review...imo...

He reviews everything from juice to food and is an expert in none....just his opinion.....imo.... just like other reviewers he gives his opinion....

 

[squag]

Personally, I've given up on the pre-built coils. Not reliable enough.

I still find it puzzling why they don't work for some people ( like me ) and others don't seem to have a problem. Here's a theory:

Contacting coils = shorts = bad refinement

I only have one of the problematic kanger nickel coils I've used left. I'm looking at it now and it looks like the coil loops may be in contact on the side and more probably the underside where I can't see. If this is the case, the contact point may act as short for the smaller voltage pulses used in the refinement. For larger applied voltages, like when you press fire, the contact point may act less like a short, since the resistance would skyrocket as you try to put more current through the tiny contact point. If it happens like this, then refinement would refine the resistance lower than what it really should be. And this would explain the need to increase the temperature setting or tell the device it's a new coil to reset the resistance.

It would also explain why some people don't have the problem and others do. One batch of coils may have contacting coils and while another batch doesn't.

From the pbusardo video, it looks like the the refinement pulses are a little less than 1V. Does anyone know how the initial resistance is measured? If a 1V pulse is used then this theory is crap. But if a larger pulse is used then it has a chance of being right.

 

[dr g]

Personally, I've given up on the pre-built coils. Not reliable enough.

I still find it puzzling why they don't work for some people ( like me ) and others don't seem to have a problem.

From what I've seen it's mostly whether a user wants them to work or not. Almost invariably the people complaining about them refuse to raise the temperature high enough for them to work and/or cite busardo's incorrect video.

 

[retird]

Personally, I've given up on the pre-built coils. Not reliable enough.

I still find it puzzling why they don't work for some people ( like me ) and others don't seem to have a problem. Here's a theory:

Contacting coils = shorts = bad refinement

I only have one of the problematic kanger nickel coils I've used left. I'm looking at it now and it looks like the coil loops may be in contact on the side and more probably the underside where I can't see. If this is the case, the contact point may act as short for the smaller voltage pulses used in the refinement. For larger applied voltages, like when you press fire, the contact point may act less like a short, since the resistance would skyrocket as you try to put more current through the tiny contact point. If it happens like this, then refinement would refine the resistance lower than what it really should be. And this would explain the need to increase the temperature setting or tell the device it's a new coil to reset the resistance.

It would also explain why some people don't have the problem and others do. One batch of coils may have contacting coils and while another batch doesn't.

From the pbusardo video, it looks like the the refinement pulses are a little less than 1V. Does anyone know how the initial resistance is measured? If a 1V pulse is used then this theory is crap. But if a larger pulse is used then it has a chance of being right.

I've actually dissected the pre-made coils after use (Kanger and Aspire) in the Kanger Nano and Aspire Nautilus Mini .... coils were not in contact in the 3 Kangers and 2 of the Aspires I took apart. I also took apart standard Kanger and Aspire coils...same there....from what I've read some people using the Kanger Mini and Kanger full size Sub-tank reported some resistance spiking...for me all have refined no more that .02 during normal use and I saw 1 at .03 when it was worn out and needing to be replaced... I have ran various % of pg/vg juices to see how they wicked.... 50/50 pg/vg is where I noticed a bit of reduced wicking on the Kanger and Aspires....All vaping was done with the air adjustment on the Kanger set to the setting just under wide open and full open on the Aspire.

I'm using the 4th 5-pack of Kangers and the 3rd 5-pack of Aspires now and have had no issues with any...only failure I had (which I planned) was with one Kanger that was used to test the C-issue of the 40 and it failed when the C-issue showed it true colors (C-issue has been corrected since)....

I would think if coils were contacting (defective build) your initial ohm reading would show a variation on the ohm checker prior to use... all mine have been spot on Kanger and Aspire....and my ohm checker reading agrees with my devices with DNA40's and 25's in them....

The only Kanger coil/housing design/component question I have concerns the lower-most seal at the base of the housing.... it swells a bit while being used and tho it doesn't bring about a leak it is noticed when removing the coil/housing from the tank to replace with a new one on the nano....

That's what I got.......

All that I use now are pre-made coils....just my consistent experience with them...your experience as to their performance may be different than mine...

 

[squag]

From what I've seen it's mostly whether a user wants them to work or not. Almost invariably the people complaining about them refuse to raise the temperature high enough for them to work and/or cite busardo's incorrect video.

Well, that's not the only problem.

As far as the refinement issue, I don't at all agree with you that busardo is wrong. On a practical level, you're right. Just raise the temperature limit. But at this point I think the temperature is no longer accurate. There are a number of people here with multiple devices that know what 400 degrees is like. We know what 380 is like and we know what 450 is like. When busardo says the temperature is not accurate after this refinement, why don't you believe him? I've experienced the same and so far it is only with these coils. Something more is going on than user error. I look at this way: If I can hand the device to my mom and she can use it then it's working properly. Presently, I can't do that. Sure, I can make it work for me with constant fiddling, but that doesn't mean it works well.

 

[Carnage9270]

The Kanger prebuilt coils ARE a problem. Everyone can dismiss it all they want but even on the stock kanthal coils the positive lead can often times touch the side of the metal housing. Numerous times I've had to bend the positive lead inward a bit to remove the short. It happens in mass production/shipping. But I must ask this of all the people that say "you're not doing it right"....There's a ton of people having this problem, there are a ton of these chipsets being returned daily, are all the people "not doing it right" or is the chipset just not ready for release?

 

[retird]

The Kanger prebuilt coils ARE a problem. Everyone can dismiss it all they want but even on the stock kanthal coils the positive lead can often times touch the side of the metal housing. Numerous times I've had to bend the positive lead inward a bit to remove the short. It happens in mass production/shipping. But I must ask this of all the people that say "you're not doing it right"....There's a ton of people having this problem, there are a ton of these chipsets being returned daily, are all the people "not doing it right" or is the chipset just not ready for release?

If the positive lead was touching the side of the metal housing it would show shorted when checked with an ohm checker prior to use... or show the Shorted error message on the DNA40/25....I've never seen this....

I guess you feel the chipset is seriously flawed... how about a list of what is wrong with it after the last revisions...If you are going to make that claim please back it up with facts... not just a general non-specific statement like "not ready for release"...

Here is copy/paste of a post of 3/11/2014 ... I've not asked for an update from Evolv since this post but will try to get another....

Here is the jest of most of the latest update as of yesterday afternoon that Evolv replied to me.. It is posted in the spirit of wanting to share and provide some of the info the vendors receive. In my opinion the vendors are your best resource and should be your first contact point as they are the seller of the devices and some are also the makers of a given device also. They also know more about the specific device(s) they offer.

1. Celsius bug is fixed.
2..The small screen glitch issue is fixed or at least that the feedback Evolv is getting from ..... (device maker's name omitted).
3. The big screen issue is better. Meaning it doesn't affect functionality of the unit anymore.

Evolv typically leaves information on bug fixes and what not to the device manufacturers to disseminate as they are the ones dealing directly with the consumer.

Hope you find this information helpful.


EDIT: Will add this... guess you saw it.....VS said this today... (36 minutes ago)

The latest software update from Evolv. This also includes all repairs.
One of the newest features is Atty Lock. When using nickel wire, this feature allows you to lock in your initial resistance so that it will not change regardless of atomizer variables, refinement, etc. If you have a dodgy atomizer or connection, it will keep you from having to adjust your temperature settings later.
This new software update has also eliminated screen glitching.

 

[squag]

If the positive lead was touching the side of the metal housing it would show shorted when checked with an ohm checker prior to use... or show the Shorted error message on the DNA40/25....I've never seen this....

I may have experienced this as well. I had two out of five heads that either had hot legs or had this kind of short. The resistance before firing was normal .15+-.01 . Upon inspection, the nickel of one of the legs was blackened.

I agree with you however that the DNA40 chip itself works well. I absolutely love temperature control on every one of my attys with the sole exception of the subtank mini with prebuilt heads. If i use the RBA section, which I do a lot, the vape is perfect. Must be the TSCs.