Kayfun LITE - Part 2

[VapingTurtle]

Is this the company who makes the Tobeco or a clone of the clone company?

Just another distributor, Ping.

Think in terms of Ping golf clubs, Ping. They own some production facilities, some in Japan, some in Canada, mostly in China, and a very small number of items that they still produce in Arizona. And they also have many pieces produced by companies that they don't own. They contract out production depending upon demand. Final product assembly is done in many different places, mostly China, some in Arizona.

Ping then sells to distributors that then sell to retailers that then sell to consumers.

Same way in e-cigs, same way in watches, same way in automobiles, and same way in every industry.

 

[Pinggolfer]

Just another distributor, Ping.

Think in terms of Ping golf clubs, Ping. They own some production facilities, some in Japan, some in Canada, mostly in China, and a very small number of items that they still produce in Arizona. And they also have many pieces produced by companies that they don't own. They contract out production depending upon demand. Final product assembly is done in many different places, mostly China, some in Arizona.

Ping then sells to distributors that then sell to retailers that then sell to consumers.

I can agree with you to a certain point. Most of the Ping irons and woods are forged in China, Japan for most of the graphite shafts, iron shafts can be USA made as they offer many types of shafts. The company in China or anywhere who is making Ping heads is not making the same heads for any other company. When you buy a Ping set of clubs you are assured there are not buying a clone. Ping actually sells to the retailer and not a distributor. I mentioned retailers once and it was deleted so I won't mention them but the top retailers and authorized pro shops are the only sellers of Ping. Pricing is set by Ping and if it's selling on ebay for less it's a fake.

The company and link I listed is not Tobeco or the company name Tobeco goes by. So I was just asking if they are selling the clone of Tobeco. It's no big deal to me except I do not and will never agree with anyone using another company's logos and even boxes of a authentic.

 

[rbrylawski]

Just another distributor, Ping.

Think in terms of Ping golf clubs, Ping. They own some production facilities, some in Japan, some in Canada, mostly in China, and a very small number of items that they still produce in Arizona. And they also have many pieces produced by companies that they don't own. They contract out production depending upon demand. Final product assembly is done in many different places, mostly China, some in Arizona.

Ping then sells to distributors that then sell to retailers that then sell to consumers.

Same way in e-cigs, same way in watches, same way in automobiles, and same way in every industry.

Maybe I'm not fulling grasping what you've written and forgive me if my interpretation is off base. But are you suggesting these "clones" are actually the same as the original because svoemesto may be using them to build their RBA's? If that is your point and I was svoemesto, the companies who might do something like that would be fired immediately or at a minimum sued.

 

[Pinggolfer]

Maybe I'm not fulling grasping what you've written and forgive me if my interpretation is off base. But are you suggesting these "clones" are actually the same as the original because SvoeMesto may be using them to build their RBA's? If that is your point and I was SvoeMesto, the companies who might do something like that would be fired immediately or at a minimum sued.

RB, the problem is China has no agreements preventing clones. Your Kayfuns were made in Germany and not parts from China. SvoeMesto is unable to file suit against the clone makers. The US, Europe, Japan, Korea, and other countries respect each others products and trademarks, China doesn't.

 

[rbrylawski]

RB, the problem is China has no agreements preventing clones. Your Kayfuns were made in Germany and not parts from China. SvoeMesto is unable to file suit against the clone makers. The US, Europe, Japan, Korea, and other countries respect each others products and trademarks, China doesn't.

Thanks Ping. I didn't know this. It's interesting. Wrong of China (IMHO), but interesting none-the-less.

 

[TrollDragon]

I'd like to see that lawsuit, SvoeMesto suing a CNC factory in the middle of communist China...

There is a suspicion that the authentic Kayfun v4 was actually made in China, since the clones came out a day or two after the authentic. Fulfill SvoeMesto's order and just keep the machines running making more. The quality on some of the clones is extremely high. With $23 vs $180, I don't think that China would be making these by the hundred thousands at a loss, there is a serious profit margin somewhere in that chain.

When Bussardo visited the CNC factories in China and was told that the demand for the clones was by North American distributors, who is actually to blame here? The Chinese for fulfilling a demand or the North American market for requesting the products be cloned or sold out the back door. The $180US dollars the authentic demands is a full year wages for the workers in some of these plants.

Just like the $150 Nike's made in Mexico for $8 a pair. There seems to be a little exploitation of the workers building the expensive products, it really doesn't matter what industry it is.

I always wondered why there were not any clone Provari's...

 

[Bronze]

I'd like to see that lawsuit, SvoeMesto suing a CNC factory in the middle of communist China...

There is a suspicion that the authentic Kayfun v4 was actually made in China, since the clones came out a day or two after the authentic. Fulfill SvoeMesto's order and just keep the machines running making more. The quality on some of the clones is extremely high. With $23 vs $180, I don't think that China would be making these by the hundred thousands at a loss, there is a serious profit margin somewhere in that chain.

When Bussardo visited the CNC factories in China and was told that the demand for the clones was by North American distributors, who is actually to blame here? The Chinese for fulfilling a demand or the North American market for requesting the products be cloned or sold out the back door. The $180US dollars the authentic demands is a full year wages for the workers in some of these plants.

Just like the $150 Nike's made in Mexico for $8 a pair. There seems to be a little exploitation of the workers building the expensive products, it really doesn't matter what industry it is.

I always wondered why there were not any clone Provari's...

ZMax.

 

[rbrylawski]

I'd like to see that lawsuit, SvoeMesto suing a CNC factory in the middle of communist China...

There is a suspicion that the authentic Kayfun v4 was actually made in China, since the clones came out a day or two after the authentic. Fulfill SvoeMesto's order and just keep the machines running making more. The quality on some of the clones is extremely high. With $23 vs $180, I don't think that China would be making these by the hundred thousands at a loss, there is a serious profit margin somewhere in that chain.

When Bussardo visited the CNC factories in China and was told that the demand for the clones was by North American distributors, who is actually to blame here? The Chinese for fulfilling a demand or the North American market for requesting the products be cloned or sold out the back door. The $180US dollars the authentic demands is a full year wages for the workers in some of these plants.

Just like the $150 Nike's made in Mexico for $8 a pair. There seems to be a little exploitation of the workers building the expensive products, it really doesn't matter what industry it is.

I always wondered why there were not any clone Provari's...

You make some very interesting points. Yes you do......

 

[TrollDragon]

ZMax.

The ZMax is a Sigelei product similar to the Provari yes? I mean a full out and out P3 clone.

 

[AndriaD]

The ZMax is a Sigelei product similar to the Provari yes? I mean a full out and out P3 clone.

I don't think so; some folks say their sigelei zmax makes that "rattlesnake" noise at low wattage; apparently the Provaris never do that. It doesn't bother me, that sound, but some folks find it very irritating.

Also, the sigelei zmax flat-top is much better looking that any P'vari ever made. (just my personal opinion, but I'm sure a lot of P'varinatis will feel the urge to argue -- try it resist it, because arguing isn't going to change my opinion!)

Andria

 

[rbrylawski]

I don't think so; some folks say their sigelei zmax makes that "rattlesnake" noise at low wattage; apparently the Provaris never do that. It doesn't bother me, that sound, but some folks find it very irritating.

Also, the sigelei zmax flat-top is much better looking that any P'vari ever made. (just my personal opinion, but I'm sure a lot of P'varinatis will feel the urge to argue -- try it resist it, because arguing isn't going to change my opinion!)

Andria

LOL.....what tastes good is subjective. And what looks good is also subjective. Beauty, is in the eyes of the beholder. Looks be darned, you'd have to pry my Provari P3 from my dead cold hands. I only care about what works best for me.

 

[Pinggolfer]

Also, the sigelei zmax flat-top is much better looking that any P'vari ever made. (just my personal opinion, but I'm sure a lot of P'varinatis will feel the urge to argue -- try it resist it, because arguing isn't going to change my opinion!)

Flat top?

 

[Pinggolfer]

The ZMax is a Sigelei product similar to the Provari yes? I mean a full out and out P3 clone.

I would say any company can make a tube mod look like a Provari, but when a company like Provape only has 3 repair techs on the payroll and excellent customer service who is able to really put the effort in to make a clone with the track record Provape has?

 

[AndriaD]

Flat top?

View attachment 457998

I'm assuming that's a provari? it doesn't look a bit like other provaris I've seen; in fact it may be the best looking provari I've ever seen!

The sigelei zmax flat-top is not, of course, actually flat (which does kinda bug me); mainly I like the rings-around design of that "flat-top" sigelei; the "round top" sigelei does look a bit like Provaris, or like the Smok Zmax's.

I will take as stated that the quality of provaris is exemplary, and the company stands behind them; nevertheless, a provari will never be in my budget, I'm just not that well-off. Those who are, enjoy.

But this thread is about kayfuns -- which I love, but unless I ever find a used one for an OUTSTANDING price in the classies, I'll probably never be able to afford an authentic one of those, and given my satisfaction with my tobecos, not really necessary.

Andria

 

[rbrylawski]

I'm assuming that's a provari? it doesn't look a bit like other provaris I've seen; in fact it may be the best looking provari I've ever seen!

The sigelei zmax flat-top is not, of course, actually flat (which does kinda bug me); mainly I like the rings-around design of that "flat-top" sigelei; the "round top" sigelei does look a bit like Provaris, or like the Smok Zmax's.

I will take as stated that the quality of provaris is exemplary, and the company stands behind them; nevertheless, a provari will never be in my budget, I'm just not that well-off. Those who are, enjoy.

But this thread is about kayfuns -- which I love, but unless I ever find a used one for an OUTSTANDING price in the classies, I'll probably never be able to afford an authentic one of those, and given my satisfaction with my tobecos, not really necessary.

Andria

The Picture Ping Posted is the Provari P3. No, they're not inexpensive. But one will last years and years. I had to two Zigeli's. Both broke. That's when I decided it was time for a Provari.

 

[AndriaD]

The Picture Ping Posted is the Provari P3. No, they're not inexpensive. But one will last years and years. I had to two Zigeli's. Both broke. That's when I decided it was time for a Provari.

I'd probably feel the same, if the less expensive mods I'm using gave me a lot of problems, or just broke. But I seem to be one of the lucky ones with zero problems with my Sigeleis, or even with the vv3's; the vv3s have now mostly been retired, to use as "utility" mods -- for dry burning, checking ohms, etc -- I got tired of how easy they are to knock over, unless you lay them down, which I generally don't prefer to do. My sigelei and vamo are harder to knock over, at 22mm, and the iSticks even less so.

Andria

 

[rbrylawski]

I'd probably feel the same, if the less expensive mods I'm using gave me a lot of problems, or just broke. But I seem to be one of the lucky ones with zero problems with my Sigeleis, or even with the vv3's; the vv3s have now mostly been retired, to use as "utility" mods -- for dry burning, checking ohms, etc -- I got tired of how easy they are to knock over, unless you lay them down, which I generally don't prefer to do. My sigelei and vamo are harder to knock over, at 22mm, and the iSticks even less so.

Andria

ALL that matters is that you use and like what you have and you stay off nasty cigarettes!

 

[Pinggolfer]

Well if anything this thread is getting some attention.

 

[TrollDragon]

Here is the KFL Undead with a FT bell cap on the KBox.

Fits perfectly in pocket.

 

[Pinggolfer]

Here is the KFL Undead with a FT bell cap on the KBox.

I'm glad it has a pulse.