Kayfun Prime - some queries

[Vik171]

Correct -
Higher Ohms = less wattage
Lower Ohms = more wattage

So if youre running 1.8Ohms and using 13-14watts, dont be surprised if you'll likely want to try starting out around near double that for a subohm (sub 1.0 ohm) build...start around 24watts say and adjust up (most likely) or down as needed till you hit your preferred vapour/heat level. I can onyl barely remember my wattage days as ive been TC'ing most of my vape life, but not unusual to hit 30w on a 0.6ish build when i did use watts mode, of course plenty of people vape much higher wattages (and now temps) than i do, i likes me a coolish vape.

Plenty of folks prefer 1.8Ohm coils

28GA anything can be a bit fiddly to work with (SS can make it a little bit tricker to work again as it can be springier), and going to 30 is even thinner but doable, both gauges heat quite quickly, so theres that upside, less ramp up time....

It would take 11/12 wraps of 28GA 316L to get in the 1.2Ohm ballpark, and i honestly cant tell you if thats possible in the kayfun deck, because Ive only ever built spaced coils on the Kayfun 5 deck, or any deck in fact.

If you trap the coil legs the traditional way (from the outside of one post screw to the other (see inside red arrows in following pic) there is a limit, but using the method untars pic shows (and borrowed and repeated below) you can get more wraps on using that method as its outside the screws, you prolly dont want to go (much) past where the outside red arrows are as the wick holes are pretty much directly underneath and generally you'll want to keep the wicks vertical at worst

7/8 wraps of 30GA 316L will get you in the ball park of 1.2Ohm and should definitely fit the deck even using the tradtional method of coil leg trapping (inside red arrows) - Coil wrapping | Steam Engine | free vaping calculators

And while im here the very basic difference between wattage mode and tc mode, because its the easiest way to think of the difference between the two

wattage mode - the mod puts out your set wattage for as long as you hold the button, the temp however continues to increase

tc mode - the mod puts out enough wattage (from the preset wattage you set - yes in tc mode theres a wattage setting - more on that if you want to be bored) to hit your set temp, and then drops the wattage to a level needed to maintain this set temp.

Or in practical terms, if i were to vape my setup in wattage mode on 0.6 Ohms, id prolly set the wattage to around 30W for my preference. As long as i hold the button, the mod puts out 30Watts and my vapour gets ever hotter the longer i hold the button and toot it. In tc mode i set my watts to say 50W (leaving a bit of headroom in case i want to change my temp at some point - then i dont need to go back to the wattage menu and i set mine a year ago and havent been back there since) and my temp to say 195c and hit the button, it may initially put out 34watts to get up to my set temp of 195c, but then it will drop to around half that to maintain the 195c...

Like i said thats the basic wattage vs tc mode difference. Theres tiem enough another day to go down that rabbit hole, but for me, i was always struggling with a consistent vape in wattage mode, when tc came along a few years back, i tried it and never looked back, i get the same identical vape every time i hit the button...made a huge difference to me, others hate it, though i still dont understand how/why for the life of me, prolly as they dont understand how i love it so much

I tend to evangelise tc mode, so just letting you know up front....

To be fair im also a pretty decent unflavoured juice evangelist too...for testing thats my next best tip for you, unflavoured juice, just nic, pg and vg in your preferred ratio, Its all ive vaped for nearly 3 years, almost no taste - never gets too much or boring, its the most low cost and low drama (no flavour chasing and spending millions on unicorn flavours) way to vape. But especially good for testing so you dont waste your expensive unicorn juice while youre doing initial testing, you can always rotate in a flavoured juice on top of it once you know you have your coil and wick right.

@stylemessiah - Mate, thank you for explaining it so well! I got it now and going to try all those builds with Kanthal and SS wires. I'll report back my experiences soon.

 

[woita]

Correct -
Higher Ohms = less wattage
Lower Ohms = more wattage

wrong. sorry, can't take that "subohm requires higher wattage"-mantra any more.

same wire gauge, i.e. same mass of wire to heat...why would i need more wattage?

subohm does NOT necessarily mean DTL

so if everything else (wire gauge, wraps, diameter) stays the same, then leave the wattage where you had it with kanthal and you be fine.
power is power; ohm's law states that the voltage and current will differ, (lower resistance/same power => less voltage, more current) but power will still be power. 15 watt kanthal will be 15 watt with ss316. and if the mass of the wire stays the same, why would you want to apply more power?

just my 2 cents - and my personal experience from 5+ years of vaping.
switched from ~1 ohm kanthal build to ~.5 ohm ss316 builds a long time ago.
power still @17 watts for me - been like that for ages.

so please stop confusing subohm with DTL and hence confusing new vapers.

thanks

PS: Sure, with TC you _can_ dial in a higher wattage, because TC will ramp that down for you once you hit the desired temp, so the only effect that will have is you reach your desired temp (and hopefully with it your sweet spot) faster. if you have access to some device monitored tc mod (DNAs/Escribe, any joyetech/eleaf/wismec/...-mod that supports arctic fox) you can even see it in the graphs/puff stats. when I got my first escribe-ready-dna-mod i was pretty surprised that even though I had the wattage up to 25 and boost on, the average power applied to my coil was still....17-18 Watts

PS2: Only scenario where "less ohms = more power" is true, are mech mods. the voltage is "constant" (ignoring different voltage sags due to higher power pulled) there. so a lower resistance will _yield_ higher power. but then again, with mechs the resistance is your _only_ means of "adjusting" power

 

[stylemessiah]

wrong. sorry, can't take that "subohm requires higher wattage"-mantra any more.

same wire gauge, i.e. same mass of wire to heat...why would i need more wattage?

subohm does NOT necessarily mean DTL

so if everything else (wire gauge, wraps, diameter) stays the same, then leave the wattage where you had it with kanthal and you be fine.
power is power; ohm's law states that the voltage and current will differ, (lower resistance/same power => less voltage, more current) but power will still be power. 15 watt kanthal will be 15 watt with ss316. and if the mass of the wire stays the same, why would you want to apply more power?

just my 2 cents - and my personal experience from 5+ years of vaping.
switched from ~1 ohm kanthal build to ~.5 ohm ss316 builds a long time ago.
power still @17 watts for me - been like that for ages.

so please stop confusing subohm with DTL and hence confusing new vapers.

thanks

PS: Sure, with TC you _can_ dial in a higher wattage, because TC will ramp that down for you once you hit the desired temp, so the only effect that will have is you reach your desired temp (and hopefully with it your sweet spot) faster. if you have access to some device monitored tc mod (DNAs/Escribe, any joyetech/eleaf/wismec/...-mod that supports arctic fox) you can even see it in the graphs/puff stats. when I got my first escribe-ready-dna-mod i was pretty surprised that even though I had the wattage up to 25 and boost on, the average power applied to my coil was still....17-18 Watts

PS2: Only scenario where "less ohms = more power" is true, are mech mods. the voltage is "constant" (ignoring different voltage sags due to higher power pulled) there. so a lower resistance will _yield_ higher power. but then again, with mechs the resistance is your _only_ means of "adjusting" power

I said:

Correct -
Higher Ohms = less wattage
Lower Ohms = more wattage

So if youre running 1.8Ohms and using 13-14watts, dont be surprised if you'll likely want to try starting out around near double that for a subohm (sub 1.0 ohm) build...start around 24watts say and adjust up (most likely) or down as needed till you hit your preferred vapour/heat level.

dont be surprised if you'll likely

To be clear, i answered a direct question, directed to me, and i responded with information i have experienced personally, and more importantly from 3.5 years of seeing other people also go from +ohm to subohm, because i was vaping just before, during and after subohming became a thing, and saw plenty make that transition too. Sticking in my mind is the 1st time i ever came into contact with subohming...local B&M shop where they had flavour tester RTA's (take off your own tank, screw theirs on to test flavours) running subohm builds, whereas the week before they had Lemo 2's like i ran, at 1.1/1.2 (standard Lemo 2 build)...they'd switched in the space of a week....id have to remember to turn the watts back down when putting my Lemo 2 with a 1.1/1.2ohm build in it...because i couldnt vape at the 22+ watts they needed to get those subohm RTA's to put out more than a wisp. The difference between the two? the ohmage, less wraps, same wire material, same diameter coil. The words above "dont be surprised if you'll likely" are there to impart that generally from all the experience i have and have seen/read of others having, yes there will generally be a boost to watts when switching to a subohm setup. I know people who would have given this sage advice "Just set your watts at 30 or above and you'll be fine", i will always advise to err on the low side, which is exactly what i did. Ask literally anyone who knows me if im a pro massive watts vaper....you'll soon discover im anti huge watts...very quickly. I answered based on experience, again. I dont know of anyone on here who can claim to give exact predictions for what their advice will do.....what they do do is give their own personal experience, which is what i did.

<edited unnecessary return fire comments, after the posters gracious follow up below, and to shorten the war by 4 years >

 

[woita]

oh, sorry, I didn't mean any of that personally.
I just stumbled across the thread and thought for the TE's sake I should clarify what to me was a wrong answer.

Again, no offense intended, sorry if it came thru that way. I just quoted your post because there was one in between and I didn't want readers to lose context.

(and sorry for obviously having derailed this thread, I'm outta here for peace's sake )

Edit: Just reread my post and I do see why you took my appeals personally. Let me repeat that it was not meant that way. I thought my post would be taken as educational and those appeals were meant for a general audience. (because I'm pretty sure that my statements are indeed true and there is a general tendency for people to confuse subohm with DTL; sorry for being a wiseass too)

 

[stylemessiah]

oh, sorry, I didn't mean any of that personally.
I just stumbled across the thread and thought for the TE's sake I should clarify what to me was a wrong answer.

Again, no offense intended, sorry if it came thru that way. I just quoted your post because there was one in between and I didn't want readers to lose context.

(and sorry for obviously having derailed this thread, I'm outta here for peace's sake )

Edit: Just reread my post and I do see why you took my appeals personally. Let me repeat that it was not meant that way. I thought my post would be taken as educational and those appeals were meant for a general audience. (because I'm pretty sure that my statements are indeed true and there is a general tendency for people to confuse subohm with DTL; sorry for being a wiseass too)

Well any post that opens with a very assertive line like "wrong. sorry, can't take that "subohm requires higher wattage"-mantra any more." is a bit confronting and full on. Appreciate you saw it from my perspective. I returned fire pretty firmly too, so apologies if that was confronting for you

Lets just shake hands, agree to disagree? and move on, no harm no foul?

 

[stylemessiah]

oh, sorry, I didn't mean any of that personally.
I just stumbled across the thread and thought for the TE's sake I should clarify what to me was a wrong answer.

Again, no offense intended, sorry if it came thru that way. I just quoted your post because there was one in between and I didn't want readers to lose context.

(and sorry for obviously having derailed this thread, I'm outta here for peace's sake )

Edit: Just reread my post and I do see why you took my appeals personally. Let me repeat that it was not meant that way. I thought my post would be taken as educational and those appeals were meant for a general audience. (because I'm pretty sure that my statements are indeed true and there is a general tendency for people to confuse subohm with DTL; sorry for being a wiseass too)

Meanwhile, i thought in future if you do want to legitimately have a go at me, id give you some 100% unambiguous ammunition....that i cant possibly return fire to if called out on it

See this: Evolv-ing Thread

Then prepare yourself (theres prolly no real preparing for this), and then go here: Evolv-ing Thread

Enjoy

 

[woita]

Lets just shake hands, agree to disagree? and move on, no harm no foul?

fully agree, <insert handshaking-emoticon>

heading to that evolv-ing-thread now - seen it many times under "new posts", never opened it though

now back to your regularly scheduled...you know

 

[LarryPer]

I have the clone and really like it
No big leaks maybe like a pin head size with it laying down

 

[Hawise]

There's one thing I do differently to most people I know - I secure my leads around and behind the post (under that little "fork" thingy), not between post and screw. That keeps the wick completely away from the airflow opening. Using 3mm ID coils so that should give an idea of how much wick I have in there.

If you haven't done that yet maybe it's worth a try.

After a month of coiling this way, I thought it was time to check in again. Thank you @untar, that seems to have done the trick! I'm delighted with my no-longer leaking Kayfuns!