Snow, I agree for the most part with you. We should never be a group of yes men (women) but when a real complaint or concern is aired..why do the haters have to jump in like a school of piranha in a feeding frenzy. That really upsets me.
Kind of sad by the recent posts
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Well some people just hold a grudge, it's like trying to explain stalkers, road rage, or people going postal. When people visit this specific forum page only to state their reasons for no longer utilizing V4L for products from an experience a year ago it clearly illustrates an agenda. I think we are all savvy enough to pick up on those few and discount their threads appropriately. I like to thank them for adding to the V4L hits counter which leads the Supplier board by some 59K+ hits. 
If any of you folks work retail like I do, it's a no brainer.No one company can be all to everyone.But unfortunatly idiot people are out there and they get in your face. You just do the best you can and then know you did.
And hope they don't breed
And hope they don't breed
Let's take a look at your list of positives...
1. There has always been a dedicated, stickied support email address and easy access phone number
2. There has always been a service contact and personal cell phone number displayed
3. "Live Chat" would not have been necessary if people had taken a few seconds to utilize the already established methods of contacting customer service. This puts yet another drain on the resources of a company who's already got cheap prices and tries it's hardest not to pass expenses on to customers.
4. The issues at the Elk Grove Sort Facility is not the responsibility of V4L. It is a third party delivery company.
The types of threads referred to by the OP are the kind made by whiny, spoiled, "I want what I want NOW" type of customer. Every business in existence is hurt by these types of people, but because "customer service" expectations keep rising, businesses are forced to go way above reasonable actions to stay competitive in this commercially driven world.
I, for one, am sick and tired of the attitude that the world is taking regarding these types of people. I get angry when I hear about a woman who gets arrested and charged for neglect for grounding her 17 year old son. I get angry when I hear about the people who call 911 because the Macdonalds they just frequented was out of ketchup. I get angry when my wife comes home after work and start crying because she's being verbally abused at work by customers, and her boss says to just deal with it because the customer is always right. I get angry when the kid down the street knows he can get a free cell phone from AT&T just by complaining loudly at the store.
There are too many whiny babies in this world, and they need to grow up and learn that life isn't going to hand them everything they want just because they want it. If this type of behavior continues to be allowed, we will be overrun by a generation of people who all believe they deserve everything just because they are alive.
Let's take a look at your list of positives...
1. There has always been a dedicated, stickied support email address and easy access phone number
No, there has not as evidenced by the word "new" and the date of 9/27:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/vapor4life/125333-contacting-v4l-customer-service.html
2. There has always been a service contact and personal cell phone number displayed
Incorrect again, Chad is new and so is his phone number 815-496-0126..I'll find the post if you want it....and it's not displayed in a sticky, it was in a thread.
3. "Live Chat" would not have been necessary if people had taken a few seconds to utilize the already established methods of contacting customer service. This puts yet another drain on the resources of a company who's already got cheap prices and tries it's hardest not to pass expenses on to customers.
Skype is free, communications with customers is essential in a service business.
4. The issues at the Elk Grove Sort Facility is not the responsibility of V4L. It is a third party delivery company.
As a 3rd Party vendor, V4L is still a client and a rather large one at that, Smilin left a personal thread about addressing issues directly with the Elk Grove Facility.
The types of threads referred to by the OP are the kind made by whiny, spoiled, "I want what I want NOW" type of customer. Every business in existence is hurt by these types of people, but because "customer service" expectations keep rising, businesses are forced to go way above reasonable actions to stay competitive in this commercially driven world.
I, for one, am sick and tired of the attitude that the world is taking regarding these types of people. I get angry when I hear about a woman who gets arrested and charged for neglect for grounding her 17 year old son. I get angry when I hear about the people who call 911 because the Macdonalds they just frequented was out of ketchup. I get angry when my wife comes home after work and start crying because she's being verbally abused at work by customers, and her boss says to just deal with it because the customer is always right. I get angry when the kid down the street knows he can get a free cell phone from AT&T just by complaining loudly at the store.
There are too many whiny babies in this world, and they need to grow up and learn that life isn't going to hand them everything they want just because they want it. If this type of behavior continues to be allowed, we will be overrun by a generation of people who all believe they deserve everything just because they are alive.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for sharing your list of all the things in life that upset you about whiney people!
1. There has always been a dedicated, stickied support email address and easy access phone number
No, there has not as evidenced by the word "new" and the date of 9/27:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/vapor4life/125333-contacting-v4l-customer-service.html
2. There has always been a service contact and personal cell phone number displayed
Incorrect again, Chad is new and so is his phone number 815-496-0126..I'll find the post if you want it....and it's not displayed in a sticky, it was in a thread.
3. "Live Chat" would not have been necessary if people had taken a few seconds to utilize the already established methods of contacting customer service. This puts yet another drain on the resources of a company who's already got cheap prices and tries it's hardest not to pass expenses on to customers.
Skype is free, communications with customers is essential in a service business.
4. The issues at the Elk Grove Sort Facility is not the responsibility of V4L. It is a third party delivery company.
As a 3rd Party vendor, V4L is still a client and a rather large one at that, Smilin left a personal thread about addressing issues directly with the Elk Grove Facility.
The types of threads referred to by the OP are the kind made by whiny, spoiled, "I want what I want NOW" type of customer. Every business in existence is hurt by these types of people, but because "customer service" expectations keep rising, businesses are forced to go way above reasonable actions to stay competitive in this commercially driven world.
I, for one, am sick and tired of the attitude that the world is taking regarding these types of people. I get angry when I hear about a woman who gets arrested and charged for neglect for grounding her 17 year old son. I get angry when I hear about the people who call 911 because the Macdonalds they just frequented was out of ketchup. I get angry when my wife comes home after work and start crying because she's being verbally abused at work by customers, and her boss says to just deal with it because the customer is always right. I get angry when the kid down the street knows he can get a free cell phone from AT&T just by complaining loudly at the store.
There are too many whiny babies in this world, and they need to grow up and learn that life isn't going to hand them everything they want just because they want it. If this type of behavior continues to be allowed, we will be overrun by a generation of people who all believe they deserve everything just because they are alive.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for sharing your list of all the things in life that upset you about whiney people!
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QFT! TY for writing/saying better than I ever could.
Snowdragon: There might not have been a sticky on the board but access to CS has never been buried or lost. It's always been available on the website with a phone number and email, the invoices in your orders AND on the business cards. There has never been a lack of information on how to get ahold of *anyone* at V4L. If I had wanted to I could've even called them before I made my first order 9 mos ago.
Thanks for sharing your list of all the things in life that upset you about whiney people![/QUOTE]
<hehe>
Snowdragon: There might not have been a sticky on the board but access to CS has never been buried or lost.
Thank you for confirming that there was not a sticky on the board and the creation of the NEW "support.vapor4life.com (this is new!!) address" I never claimed access to CS has been buried or lost, please find where I have made such a claim.
It's always been available on the website with a phone number and email, the invoices in your orders AND on the business cards.
Fantastic, did I ever claim that it wasn't listed on those items? No. Is Chad's name and phone listed on any of those items? No. What purpose does it serve to conflate what was stated by injecting the irrelevant?
There has never been a lack of information on how to get ahold of *anyone* at V4L. If I had wanted to I could've even called them before I made my first order 9 mos ago.
Could you have called Chad directly on his cell phone 9 months ago? No.
I would like to thank both you and Darigazz for confirming and validating my earlier remarks in Post #20
Thank you for confirming that there was not a sticky on the board and the creation of the NEW "support.vapor4life.com (this is new!!) address" I never claimed access to CS has been buried or lost, please find where I have made such a claim.
It's always been available on the website with a phone number and email, the invoices in your orders AND on the business cards.
Fantastic, did I ever claim that it wasn't listed on those items? No. Is Chad's name and phone listed on any of those items? No. What purpose does it serve to conflate what was stated by injecting the irrelevant?
There has never been a lack of information on how to get ahold of *anyone* at V4L. If I had wanted to I could've even called them before I made my first order 9 mos ago.
Could you have called Chad directly on his cell phone 9 months ago? No.
I would like to thank both you and Darigazz for confirming and validating my earlier remarks in Post #20
Thanks for sharing your list of all the things in life that upset you about whiney people!
You don't have to agree with me, as this is solely my opinion that I've stated. Just so you know, this is not a complete list of things in life that upset me about whiny people. These are just a few examples of such occurances that upset a great many people.
[/QUOTE]
See my responses in red.
I had 2 issues with V4L and they were both handled within the day I brought it to their attention. I actually called yesterday because of the fact that I placed an order because I lost a batt. I found it and called, I spoke to Mark's wife and had a long conversation, I called to cancel my order because I do not have any extra money right now and since I found my battery I did not need an extra one right now.
I explained to her the situation and she totally understood that it needed to be canceled. After we got that done, we were talking about the bashing on here and why I and other old timers do not post anymore. Because of the fact that the complaining was annoying and the boards should not be for that.
She agreed with me and we both said that you just need to send an email, or even easier, for the ones with issues, you know the card that they put in every order? Well give that number that is on there a call. The sweetest woman will pick up, her name is Kristy (if I remember right), she is Marks wife, she can handle most issues.
So guy's if you have an issue, please do not bring it on here, take the card out, call the number and speak to her, Mark, Steve or anyone else that works there!
I explained to her the situation and she totally understood that it needed to be canceled. After we got that done, we were talking about the bashing on here and why I and other old timers do not post anymore. Because of the fact that the complaining was annoying and the boards should not be for that.
She agreed with me and we both said that you just need to send an email, or even easier, for the ones with issues, you know the card that they put in every order? Well give that number that is on there a call. The sweetest woman will pick up, her name is Kristy (if I remember right), she is Marks wife, she can handle most issues.
So guy's if you have an issue, please do not bring it on here, take the card out, call the number and speak to her, Mark, Steve or anyone else that works there!
Highly relevant. You implied that there were very few ways to contact V4L and/or their CS (whoever it may be at the time) and that this information is only to be had if one digs or spends considerable time finding. I imply and claim (and proved!) there are many ways to contact V4L and/or their CS and can have this information in seconds.
The information has always been readily available, one just has to utilise it. You'll not find another online-only business out there easier to contact than V4L. (This is IMO of course but also with over 14 (15?) yrs of experience buying/trading/selling stuff online. Longer even if you count the BBS days of the late 80s early 90s.)
BTW: TY Dar! I forgot about the welcome mat! ;D
and Krazie: I too believe that this forum should not be used for handling business complaints.
Jeffree, my cat just caught a grasshopper in the backyard...pretty cool! Are you in the Bay Area, wish I was there, nothing like a shake from Kirks, or knocking down a 40oz on the back benches at Rizotti's/Alpine Inn to cure a dry throat.
Kid, I'm not sure how March 2010 defines an old-timer but I digress. Haven't you noticed that the overwhelming bulk of agenda-driven bashers hardly, if ever, post on this forum?
I also believe the NEW sticky is a great way to redirect such posts in the future and the edition of a Skype account will give customers a medium that will be mutually beneficial to resolving issues. Whether or not this will bring back the "old-timers" is still in question, as many forum people get burned out and lurk after being active posters.
Now, back to my favorite time-killing forum game (waiting on a fax) of The Last Word
1. There has always been a dedicated, stickied support email address and easy access phone number
No, there has not as evidenced by the word "new" and the date of 9/27:
Contacting V4l Customer Service
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/vapor4life/58027-vaporking-user-guide.html
I'll even pull out the info from there and paste it here for you from the STICKIED Vapor4Life welcome mat:
The V4L Crew & Contact Info
773-456-0116
Steve "Smilin" Milin - Owner and Vapor King! Email: steve@vapor4life.com ECF: SMILIN Mark Dohse- VP of IT & Customer Service Email: mark@vapor4life.com ECF: dohsma Dan Henschel, aka Leaford - V4L Product Developer ECF: leaford
So, you believe it's easier to redirect an irate poster to the V4L Welcome Mat and of the 14 links listed advise them to select the Vapor King Users Guide, then scroll to the very bottom of the page as being easier than the simple Sticky 'Contacting V4L Customer Service listing a specific e-mail address and phone number...interesting
2. There has always been a service contact and personal cell phone number displayed
Incorrect again, Chad is new and so is his phone number 815-496-0126..I'll find the post if you want it....and it's not displayed in a sticky, it was in a thread.
Chad IS new. But Mark has displayed his personal cell phone number numerous times in the past. He started out being the only service contact.
Glad that we can agree Chad along with his phone number is new, and that Mark recently deferred Chad as the designated rep. to handle CS issues....next
3. "Live Chat" would not have been necessary if people had taken a few seconds to utilize the already established methods of contacting customer service. This puts yet another drain on the resources of a company who's already got cheap prices and tries it's hardest not to pass expenses on to customers.
Skype is free, communications with customers is essential in a service business.
You are implying that there were no other communication options available to customers. This company has many ways to get ahold of somebody.
No, you are now conflating the issue by inferring that I was implying, this is simply not addressing my stated point or your initial stated reply which was the added cost of utilizing Skype, this simply serves as a means of deflecting the discussion away from added costs, over a service which is free.
4. The issues at the Elk Grove Sort Facility is not the responsibility of V4L. It is a third party delivery company.
As a 3rd Party vendor, V4L is still a client and a rather large one at that, Smilin left a personal thread about addressing issues directly with the Elk Grove Facility.
Steve (Smilin), as a customer of USPS, can only address the issues with Elk Grove Facility as any other customer can do. File a complaint with the postmaster stationed there and go up the chain. You have added this to the list as if V4L controls USPS is any way.
While it's true that Steve is a customer, V4L is no way just "another" customer which give him them ability to have issues addressed with USPS Commercial Account Reps. in ways unavailable to non-commercial customers. I never stated that "V4L controls USPS", let us just stick with what was stated.
Strategic Transformation Plan - Generate Revenue
MailPro - Vol. 3 Number 3 May/June 2009
The types of threads referred to by the OP are the kind made by whiny, spoiled, "I want what I want NOW" type of customer. Every business in existence is hurt by these types of people, but because "customer service" expectations keep rising, businesses are forced to go way above reasonable actions to stay competitive in this commercially driven world.
I, for one, am sick and tired of the attitude that the world is taking regarding these types of people. I get angry when I hear about a woman who gets arrested and charged for neglect for grounding her 17 year old son. I get angry when I hear about the people who call 911 because the Macdonalds they just frequented was out of ketchup. I get angry when my wife comes home after work and start crying because she's being verbally abused at work by customers, and her boss says to just deal with it because the customer is always right. I get angry when the kid down the street knows he can get a free cell phone from AT&T just by complaining loudly at the store.
There are too many whiny babies in this world, and they need to grow up and learn that life isn't going to hand them everything they want just because they want it. If this type of behavior continues to be allowed, we will be overrun by a generation of people who all believe they deserve everything just because they are alive.
Thanks for sharing your list of all the things in life that upset you about whiney people!
You don't have to agree with me, as this is solely my opinion that I've stated. Just so you know, this is not a complete list of things in life that upset me about whiny people. These are just a few examples of such occurances that upset a great many people.
I'm sure your list of things in life that upset you are long and impressive. If I should ever have an extra 100 hours or so I would enjoy it if you would share them all with me. It is not a question of agreeing or disagreeing, as you have singled out and challenged what I perceive as recent positive moves to redirect and assist upset customers, relieving the forum regulars from involvement and taking away what is an otherwise friendly and happy place.
Kid, I'm not sure how March 2010 defines an old-timer but I digress. Haven't you noticed that the overwhelming bulk of agenda-driven bashers hardly, if ever, post on this forum?
I also believe the NEW sticky is a great way to redirect such posts in the future and the edition of a Skype account will give customers a medium that will be mutually beneficial to resolving issues. Whether or not this will bring back the "old-timers" is still in question, as many forum people get burned out and lurk after being active posters.
Now, back to my favorite time-killing forum game (waiting on a fax) of The Last Word
1. There has always been a dedicated, stickied support email address and easy access phone number
No, there has not as evidenced by the word "new" and the date of 9/27:
Contacting V4l Customer Service
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/vapor4life/58027-vaporking-user-guide.html
I'll even pull out the info from there and paste it here for you from the STICKIED Vapor4Life welcome mat:
The V4L Crew & Contact Info
773-456-0116
Steve "Smilin" Milin - Owner and Vapor King! Email: steve@vapor4life.com ECF: SMILIN Mark Dohse- VP of IT & Customer Service Email: mark@vapor4life.com ECF: dohsma Dan Henschel, aka Leaford - V4L Product Developer ECF: leaford
So, you believe it's easier to redirect an irate poster to the V4L Welcome Mat and of the 14 links listed advise them to select the Vapor King Users Guide, then scroll to the very bottom of the page as being easier than the simple Sticky 'Contacting V4L Customer Service listing a specific e-mail address and phone number...interesting
2. There has always been a service contact and personal cell phone number displayed
Incorrect again, Chad is new and so is his phone number 815-496-0126..I'll find the post if you want it....and it's not displayed in a sticky, it was in a thread.
Chad IS new. But Mark has displayed his personal cell phone number numerous times in the past. He started out being the only service contact.
Glad that we can agree Chad along with his phone number is new, and that Mark recently deferred Chad as the designated rep. to handle CS issues....next
3. "Live Chat" would not have been necessary if people had taken a few seconds to utilize the already established methods of contacting customer service. This puts yet another drain on the resources of a company who's already got cheap prices and tries it's hardest not to pass expenses on to customers.
Skype is free, communications with customers is essential in a service business.
You are implying that there were no other communication options available to customers. This company has many ways to get ahold of somebody.
No, you are now conflating the issue by inferring that I was implying, this is simply not addressing my stated point or your initial stated reply which was the added cost of utilizing Skype, this simply serves as a means of deflecting the discussion away from added costs, over a service which is free.
4. The issues at the Elk Grove Sort Facility is not the responsibility of V4L. It is a third party delivery company.
As a 3rd Party vendor, V4L is still a client and a rather large one at that, Smilin left a personal thread about addressing issues directly with the Elk Grove Facility.
Steve (Smilin), as a customer of USPS, can only address the issues with Elk Grove Facility as any other customer can do. File a complaint with the postmaster stationed there and go up the chain. You have added this to the list as if V4L controls USPS is any way.
While it's true that Steve is a customer, V4L is no way just "another" customer which give him them ability to have issues addressed with USPS Commercial Account Reps. in ways unavailable to non-commercial customers. I never stated that "V4L controls USPS", let us just stick with what was stated.
Strategic Transformation Plan - Generate Revenue
MailPro - Vol. 3 Number 3 May/June 2009
The types of threads referred to by the OP are the kind made by whiny, spoiled, "I want what I want NOW" type of customer. Every business in existence is hurt by these types of people, but because "customer service" expectations keep rising, businesses are forced to go way above reasonable actions to stay competitive in this commercially driven world.
I, for one, am sick and tired of the attitude that the world is taking regarding these types of people. I get angry when I hear about a woman who gets arrested and charged for neglect for grounding her 17 year old son. I get angry when I hear about the people who call 911 because the Macdonalds they just frequented was out of ketchup. I get angry when my wife comes home after work and start crying because she's being verbally abused at work by customers, and her boss says to just deal with it because the customer is always right. I get angry when the kid down the street knows he can get a free cell phone from AT&T just by complaining loudly at the store.
There are too many whiny babies in this world, and they need to grow up and learn that life isn't going to hand them everything they want just because they want it. If this type of behavior continues to be allowed, we will be overrun by a generation of people who all believe they deserve everything just because they are alive.
Thanks for sharing your list of all the things in life that upset you about whiney people!
You don't have to agree with me, as this is solely my opinion that I've stated. Just so you know, this is not a complete list of things in life that upset me about whiny people. These are just a few examples of such occurances that upset a great many people.
I'm sure your list of things in life that upset you are long and impressive. If I should ever have an extra 100 hours or so I would enjoy it if you would share them all with me. It is not a question of agreeing or disagreeing, as you have singled out and challenged what I perceive as recent positive moves to redirect and assist upset customers, relieving the forum regulars from involvement and taking away what is an otherwise friendly and happy place.
Because I don't have the time to continue to waste on trying to educate you where you went wrong, I will just point out a specific case flaw in your argument logic style. See above for reference.
You started out by saying that having a customer service contact and a personal cell phone number is a recent change. Then once that information was pointed out to be incorrect, you then changed your argument to that of Chad being new and that Mark had deferred customer service to him. Chad being new to the reins doesn't change the FACT that Mark has always been a customer service contact and has given a personal cell phone number. This means that it's not a recent change of policy.
Now just admit that you were wrong, or edit your original post to inform people that may just be reading this thread for the first time, that V4L has ALWAYS had a customer service contact. V4L doesn't need people to spread misinformation about how they handle their own business.
If this is the case then why do the mods move these kinds of threads to this forum(Vapor4Life) and, not the reviews of suppliers forum? I have seen them do it.
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