Let's talk about the 'gateway' effect...

[AegisPrime]

There's a post in the new member forums about non-smokers that have taken up vaping. For some vapers here that seems to be a taboo subject - they're concerned that any evidence that non-smokers are getting on to nicotine via vaping or (horror!) moving on from vaping to smoking is damaging to vaping's image - I think it's something we should talk about.

Non-smokers - in my opinion, there's every chance that a sizeable number of non-smokers will try (and possibly stick with) vaping as it increases in popularity. Is this a bad thing? No in my opinion - assuming the existing research we've seen as to the safety of the base ingredients and nicotine as a whole holds up then seriously - what's the harm?

In fact - imagine a world where cigarettes had never existed and a device is introduced allowing people to 'vape' nicotine (a mildly addictive but benign stimulant) in a variety of flavours in a showy but generally odourless fashion - why would we care who uses it?

Gateway to smoking - this is the real elephant in the room - there's no evidence to support this will happen and honestly, why would it? Why would someone that enjoyed vaping Boba's Bounty at a mild level of nicotine for a small daily cost and with no risk to their health become a smoker?

Children - Kids are going to do whatever they damn well please. I fully support vaping gear and liquids not being sold to minors and from what I generally see, so do most (all?) of the suppliers - but kids will get them anyway. And cigarettes and booze and drugs. Anything adults can enjoy, kids will get hold of and this 'reasoning' for prohibition is a big fat lie.

We shouldn't be scared of the 'gateway' argument - we should embrace it. Vaping shouldn't be the remit of smokers or ex-smokers - it should be a lifestyle choice for any adult that wishes to try it. Non-smokers are going to vape. Kids are going to vape.

Will they become smokers? I think not - and if their habit isn't harming them or anyone else then what right does anyone have to judge them?

 

[navigator2011]

There is an article recently that discusses some 43 high schoolers that tried vaping, and apparently many of them also tried cigarettes. As I recall, only one of the students continued smoking. What I don't see mentioned is that those students didn't try the cigarettes because of nicotine addiction from vaping, but rather they would have tried the cigarettes anyway. If vaping had caused nicotine addiction, leading to cigarette smoking, then they ALL would still be smoking the cigarettes, yet they are not. What needs to be pointed out is that cigarettes are way more addictive and harm causing than anything else, and that vaping is a solution to this problem and not a cause.

 

[Amraann]

I kind of believe that many of those non smokers who started vaping could potentially have started smoking had vaping not been an option for them.
In my mind it stands to reason that they were looking to fulfill some need and luckily chose the vaping route rather then smoking.

I completely agree with your post!!

 

[AegisPrime]

What needs to be pointed out is that cigarettes are way more addictive and harm causing than anything else, and that vaping is a solution to this problem and not a cause.

And whilst cigarettes are still available for kids or adults to smoke (which they will be for a long, long time), having a less addictive, less harmful nicotine-containing product on the market won't be a gateway to smoking - cigarettes are the gateway to smoking - e-cigs are the gateway to a very different habit.

 

[AegisPrime]

I kind of believe that many of those non smokers who started vaping could potentially have started smoking had vaping not been an option for them.
In my mind it stands to reason that they were looking to fulfill some need and luckily chose the vaping route rather then smoking.

I completely agree with your post!!

The point is, if someone - adult, child, smoker, non-smoker - chooses to vape nicotine (or not, 0mg) - in harmless amounts through a harmless device that's harmless to those around them - what's the uh... harm?

I think some vapers feel that the visual similarities between smoking and vaping makes the argument against the 'gateway' effect difficult to defend against - they're forgetting that the experience is very different.

And honestly, most of those trying to ban e-cigs are 'proudly' non (or ex) smokers - they think smoking and vaping is the exact same thing.

Transitioning from a (non-smoking) vaper to a smoker is going to be much the same as a non-smoker having their first cigarette - it's going to be expensive, it's going to taste terrible, it'll make them cough and gag and if they're masochistic enough (like me ) they'll get hooked.

Curious people are curious and they'll try and get hooked on whatever it is that floats their boat - e-cigs won't change that one damn bit...

 

[EddardinWinter]

I would give one of my children access to vaping materials if they were going to smoke without that alternative.

I would not hesitate to do so.

Good thread topic Aegis.

 

[yzer]

I'm not going to "embrace" vaping by non-smokers or sing Kumbaya when a non-smoker starts vaping nicotine. It is a choice that carries some risk to health and that risk is different for every individual, just like drinking alcohol. Like alcohol, nicotine carries a risk of dependency which again, varies by user.

So yeah, I'm not on the "vaping is good for you" bandwagon or siding with the prohibitionists either.

The gateway drug concept is a fallacy based upon a mistaken cause.

 

[navigator2011]

Food for thought: Remember the days when we all tried to quit cigarettes cold turkey style or even with an NRT? It would get tough after a while, and you would think 'I can have just one.' And, that single cigarette would us send right back to chain smoking again. Two to five years later, we might try again to quit smoking. Now, how many vapers have quit cigarettes for a few weeks or even months, and then try 'just one,' only to find they are horrible and then become cured from smoking for life? That is the difference, something about vaping makes smoking taste horrible, and that is likely why only one of those 43 students bothered to try a 'second cigarette,' and it was that second cigarette hooked him, not vaping. This is difficult to convey to lawmakers and non-smokers, but it does bear witness to vaping being a cure rather than a disease.

 

[EddardinWinter]

Food for thought: Remember the days when we all tried to quit cigarettes cold turkey style or even with an NRT? It would get tough after a while, and you would think 'I can have just one.' And, that single cigarette would us send right back to chain smoking again. Two to five years later, we might try again to quit smoking. Now, how many vapers have quit cigarettes for a few weeks or even months, and then try 'just one,' only to find they are horrible and then become cured from smoking for life? That is the difference, something about vaping makes smoking taste horrible, and that is likely why only one of those 43 students bothered to try a 'second cigarette,' and it was that second cigarette hooked him, not vaping. This is difficult to convey to lawmakers and non-smokers, but it does bear witness to vaping being a cure rather than a disease.

I believe it is the transfer of that nicotine hit association with cigarette smoke to an association with pleasant vapor flavors.

That is my very unscientific, non-psychologist interpretation, at least.

 

[navigator2011]

The difficult thing about non-smokers that take up vaping regularly, is that we cannot view that parallel universe in which vaping is already banned and that person instead got hooked on cigarettes at 15 years old and then spends the rest of his/her life paying through the nose for the privilege of killing him/herself.

 

[AegisPrime]

The difficult thing about non-smokers that take up vaping regularly, is that we cannot view that parallel universe in which vaping is already banned and that person instead got hooked on cigarettes at 15 years old and then spends the rest of his/her life paying through the nose for the privilege of killing him/herself.

Well, we shouldn't have to - vaping should be judged on its own merits (or lack of them) - allowing cigarette smoking to be brought into the argument for/against e-cigs is muddying the waters - yes, e-cigs are a wonderful option for smokers looking for a healthier option but taken on their own aren't e-cigs a completely benign invention? I think they are.

Sure, there's nicotine addiction (which is suspected to be less than cigarettes due to the method of delivery and the missing chemicals in smoke), other than that... what is it about e-cigs that makes them a danger to adults, children and small animals?

Of course, there's still tests to be done, but it's starting to become apparent that the scientific studies that back e-cigs as being (almost) harmless are heavily outweighing the studies showing they're a blight on society.

 

[Traver]

What are the risks from vaping or nicotine addiction?

 

[bluecat]

If you are 18, you should be afforded the rights that come about from being that age. We have to stop babying are kids or they will never learn how to live on their own. They will be stuck in your basement for the rest of their life and dependent on someone... see where that's going.

At 18 a person should be able to smoke, drink or vape if they so choose. The choice they make from there will become theirs.

Personally "gateway effect" is a lazy term used by those that think they are better than the rest of the plebeians in society. I started smoking at 20ish when a "smoking" hot young Latino lady blew smoke into my face. I liked it. Oh yeah I loved candy cigarettes when I was 10.. so maybe that was the gateway into smokes... I bet I could hire that shrink out of Texas to win a case for me.

 

[navigator2011]

Well, we shouldn't have to - vaping should be judged on its own merits (or lack of them) - allowing cigarette smoking to be brought into the argument for/against e-cigs is muddying the waters - yes, e-cigs are a wonderful option for smokers looking for a healthier option but taken on their own aren't e-cigs a completely benign invention? I think they are.

Sure, there's nicotine addiction (which is suspected to be less than cigarettes due to the method of delivery and the missing chemicals in smoke), other than that... what is it about e-cigs that makes them a danger to adults, children and small animals?

Of course, there's still tests to be done, but it's starting to become apparent that the scientific studies that back e-cigs as being (almost) harmless are heavily outweighing the studies showing they're a blight on society.

I cannot agree with you, here, in entirety. Of course, putting only air in one's lungs is preferable. And, I can see that doing our best to prevent people from becoming addicted to nicotine is a good idea. And, it's this point that we must think about: We often like to say that nicotine is rather benign like caffeine. Problem is, nicotine is a powerful poison. I certainly don't want my children to become addicted to nicotine. Sure, they have a choice, but I pray they make the correct decision. The truth is that smokers are used to inhaling over 4000 poisons, and think they cannot quit, that the thought of only inhaling nicotine appears marvelous. I think the ecig finds it's greatest value relative to cigarette smoking because the ecig stands to cure nearly every single complaint that has ever been leveled at cigarette smoking, except the nicotine, of course. I strongly feel that this is the best way to approach the ecig discussion with lawmakers and non-smokers.

 

[AegisPrime]

What are the risks from vaping or nicotine addiction?

I'll quote you the wonderful Viscount Ridley from the UK's House of Lords:

The MHRA impact assessment says that the decision on whether to regulate e-cigarettes should be based on the harm that they do. Yet that very impact statement says that, “any risk is likely to be very small”, that there is, “an absence of empirical evidence” and “no direct clinical evidence”, that “the picture is unclear”, and—my favourite quote—states: “Unfortunately, we have no evidence”, of harm.

 

[t2ak]

I only saw one "gateway". It was this little (at first) dimly lit alleyway at the crossroad of Cancer AVE and Bigpharmington RD. I was a little hesitant at first. you know this part of town can be quite dangerous but, I took a chance... saved me about 15 years...

 

[fernicus]

I feel like vaping could be a gateway to smoking if things like Sweet Dreams flavored cigarettes were still around..... I just don't see how someone who started vaping, having not smoked analogs before, would go over to analogs. Smoke is way harsher than vapor and it definitely tastes like crap in comparison. I understand the worry but I think it's being blown out of proportion a little. There have been a few young people that have come into the shop i work at that don't smoke analogs and they buy a e-cig with 0mg nicotine juice. They don't seem to be drawn into the nicotine factor, I think they're seeing it more along the lines of a hookah because of the flavors, but more desirable because there's no nicotine and tobacco flavor that they don't crave. Just my opinion...

 

[navigator2011]

If you are 18, you should be afforded the rights that come about from being that age. We have to stop babying are kids or they will never learn how to live on their own. They will be stuck in your basement for the rest of their life and dependent on someone... see where that's going.

At 18 a person should be able to smoke, drink or vape if they so choose. The choice they make from there will become theirs.

Personally "gateway effect" is a lazy term used by those that think they are better than the rest of the plebeians in society. I started smoking at 20ish when a "smoking" hot young Latino lady blew smoke into my face. I liked it. Oh yeah I loved candy cigarettes when I was 10.. so maybe that was the gateway into smokes... I bet I could hire that shrink out of Texas to win a case for me.

Candy cigs a gateway? I don't know. I started out with clove cigarettes, like Kretek and Djarum. Now those are a gateway, and are still on sale in plain view pretty much everywhere. When my Boge cartos make that crackling sound, it actually takes me back to the good ole days when I could 'enjoy' a Kretek on a Friday night out with friends.

 

[RosaJ]

If you are 18, you should be afforded the rights that come about from being that age. We have to stop babying are kids or they will never learn how to live on their own. They will be stuck in your basement for the rest of their life and dependent on someone... see where that's going.

At 18 a person should be able to smoke, drink or vape if they so choose. The choice they make from there will become theirs.

Personally "gateway effect" is a lazy term used by those that think they are better than the rest of the plebeians in society. I started smoking at 20ish when a "smoking" hot young Latino lady blew smoke into my face. I liked it. Oh yeah I loved candy cigarettes when I was 10.. so maybe that was the gateway into smokes... I bet I could hire that shrink out of Texas to win a case for me.

1+ like! If at 18 years of age a young man/woman can sign their lives to the armed forces to be laid on the line for our FREEDOM, then why is vaping such a hot button topic with some forum members? I don't get it...

 

[navigator2011]

I feel like vaping could be a gateway to smoking if things like Sweet Dreams flavored cigarettes were still around..... I just don't see how someone who started vaping, having not smoked analogs before, would go over to analogs. Smoke is way harsher than vapor and it definitely tastes like crap in comparison. I understand the worry but I think it's being blown out of proportion a little. There have been a few young people that have come into the shop i work at that don't smoke analogs and they buy a e-cig with 0mg nicotine juice. They don't seem to be drawn into the nicotine factor, I think they're seeing it more along the lines of a hookah because of the flavors, but more desirable because there's no nicotine and tobacco flavor that they don't crave. Just my opinion...

I think the only way vaping could be a gateway is if somehow ecigs are completely banned. Anyone that has become accustomed to vaping nicotine will find an alternative if their favorite mode of use is taken away. The horrible taste of cigarettes is only a deterent when their are better options available.