Let's talk about the 'gateway' effect...

[Steamix]

So far 'habeas corpus' is still valid. So far, it's all about informed choices. Smoking is unhealthy. vaping is less unhealthy. Dying is very unhealthy.
Some states have been thinking about rising the age of where one could buy smokes legally to the age of 21. The very same country is able to ship 18 year olds who have signed up for the armed forces to some place half a globe away where they theoritcally couldn't smoke but could get shot to pieces, blown to bits or get killed or maimed in a million different ways. But what do I know? Maybe it's a safeguard against medics complaining about second hand smoke inhalation while they patch up your sucking chest wound...

It's your body, your health your life. As long as you know what you're getting into I pretty it's your decision to live by it and, should fate so decide - die by it. Simple as that.

Kids starting to vape ... hm, pack of analogs is still cheaper to come by than vaping gear. But I do prefer the +18 stickers on the vendors websites, make no mistake about it. For kids and adolescents do exceptionally foolish things, like posting you tube clips of shoving lit firecrackers down their own pants...Well, if they do it right, then at least their stupidity won't get passed on....guess Darwin knew what he was talking about...I people insist on doing stupid things, there's probably little in the way of stopping 'em...

Gateways are gateways. Whether they choose the gateway down the road to idiocy or wisdom or something in between ior wildly gyrating between both, all that can be done is telling 'em whats down the road. The rest is non-intereference. I prefer to live my life without meddling from busybodies - be they from the gorvernemnt or otherwise - and am perfectly fine leaving others to do likewise. OK , if you're inclined to jump off a cliff I might point out to you that gravity really sucks and that it could be a bit inconsiderate leaving others to clean up the messy impact crater ....besides, if you back off from that edge I could ask you to take a closer look at my atty and get your learned opionion about it

 

[bluecat]

Yeah, my 12-year is reporting people are using them in Jr. High School. But, as you say, they don't appear to continue on with it because they are using 0-nicotine.

I did not want presume of geographical differences, but I did live in New York and other parts of the country. Norms are different there.

She never did tell me if they a 0 mg or what. When I asked, I got daddy...... I am not asking them that.

I am more shocked about what my 6th grader comes home with. It may be pulling her out. Thankfully I think the school got my point when I told the principle.. something has to be done or a call to the police and channel 5/9/12 and 19 news would ensue.

For crying out loud when the heck did it become a thing to aspire to do in 6th grade. She tells us the cool thing now is that 6th grade girls can't wait to be in middle school so they can get pregnant. I had to walk out of the room and leave her with her mother I was so ....... Her mother is a teacher too.

I am sure the principle didn't like my email at midnight I sent. The next school board meeting should be pretty interesting when I open up my yapper.

 

[yzer]

Taking aspirin is a gateway drug for ...... but only if you have a headache.

 

[AegisPrime]

For crying out loud when the heck did it become a thing to aspire to do in 6th grade. She tells us the cool thing now is that 6th grade girls can't wait to be in middle school so they can get pregnant. I had to walk out of the room and leave her with her mother I was so ....... Her mother is a teacher too.

 

[navigator2011]

I did not want presume of geographical differences, but I did live in New York and other parts of the country. Norms are different there.

She never did tell me if they a 0 mg or what. When I asked, I got daddy...... I am not asking them that.

I am more shocked about what my 6th grader comes home with. It may be pulling her out. Thankfully I think the school got my point when I told the principle.. something has to be done or a call to the police and channel 5/9/12 and 19 news would ensue.

For crying out loud when the heck did it become a thing to aspire to do in 6th grade. She tells us the cool thing now is that 6th grade girls can't wait to be in middle school so they can get pregnant. I had to walk out of the room and leave her with her mother I was so ....... Her mother is a teacher too.

I am sure the principle didn't like my email at midnight I sent. The next school board meeting should be pretty interesting when I open up my yapper.

I've heard similar things out here in the west. I think some of this talk is on the level of bravado, and often it seems like the one's saying those things are really about as dumb as a box of rocks. On the other hand, this is not the nation I grew up in, and I am by no means old. It doesn't help with all the garbage on TV, radio, and YouTube, either. It seems that American pop-culture has finally been distilled all the way down to some strangely greenish-purple goo typically found at the bottom of a barrel left open too long.

I am beginning to concur.

 

[RosaJ]

So... nicotine is addictive. The FDA, triple A, and all the other alphabet letters say ecigs are bad because they contain nicotine and it's "a gateway" to smoking.

Okay... so why did the FDA approve patches to be used indefinitely? Don't they contain nicotine? What if the chilreeen get a hold of the patches and use them all the time indefinitely? Has the CDC done a study on how many minors use patches at least once in the last 30 days? How about some of us who are allergic to the adhesive in anything that sticks to the skin? I guess they would then push their medicine to heal the holes left on my skin, not to mention the skin cancer that will develop.

I've got to quit trying to make sense of the nonsensical. I need to switch my 0 nic juice to the 12mg nic one just to calm down.

 

[DC2]

I have family members with Alzheimer's and MS. It isn't pleasant, not much you can do though.

The thing that amazes me is the number of pills they each take. It is absolutely crazy. A lot of time one pill is taken to counter the side effects of another pill.

Honestly, I don't see where they work anyway. The mind is gone and just gets drunk to ease the days away. I won't even go over the $s that is paid for their medication per year... more than a middle class home in suburbia.

I have watched a loved one get on the Big Pharma pill train...

First it was one pill.
Then it was another pill.
Then it was a pill to fix what the previous pills did wrong.

Then there were so MANY pills.

And all this time, his situation was degrading.
Until we noticed he had a very unusually low blood pressure.

The nurse didn't notice it.
The doctor didn't notice it either.
How the hell does that even happen?

But I noticed it.

And as a result, we as a family told the doctors we wanted to start reducing his pill regimen.
And he got much better.

If you love someone, and they are on the Big Pharma train, it is up to YOU to monitor and care for them.
No one else will.

I've learned a lot from this experience, and I no longer trust my health to anyone but me.
The internet, for all the bad things said about it, can bring you knowledge.

Use it.

 

[BillyWJ]

And that drug seriously effs some people up. I do know of some that claim it's a miracle. I know others that have almost died while on it, though. I don't know of anyone who nearly passed from vaping (well, except for those peeps that post to the FDA site), but I know a ton of people that vaped their cigarette addiction away.

I was one of the idiots who tried Wellbutrin years ago, to try and quit. My doctor had some pretty serious reservations, but as he was a family friend, he knew how hard i'd been trying to quit, so he reluctantly wrote me a script, and gave me a pretty stern warning about side effects. I think I made it a week, before I stopped taking them, because I HATED how they made me feel. He was right, it's an antidepressant, that they found during trials stopped cigarette cravings. They don't really know why, but hey, it works, let's sell it as a smoking cessation drug!

I know the exact moment I stopped, I was at work, talking to my boss, and my mind blanked, mid sentence. I mean, BLANKED, I had to stop and figure out where I was, and what I was doing. Later, I thought about what would happen if I went through that driving...and I tossed the pills in the garbage.

These days, all that's in my medicine cabinet is Advil. (knock on wood)

 

[navigator2011]

Okay... so why did the FDA approve patches to be used indefinitely? Don't they contain nicotine? What if the chilreeen get a hold of the patches and use them all the time indefinitely? Has the CDC done a study on how many minors use patches at least once in the last 30 days? How about some of us who are allergic to the adhesive in anything that sticks to the skin? I guess they would then push their medicine to heal the holes left on my skin, not to mention the skin cancer that will develop.

I've got to quit trying to make sense of the nonsensical. I need to switch my 0 nic juice to the 12mg nic one just to calm down.

Well, they're not going to demonize their own product. If you cannot stand the adhesive, they'll push you toward that grotty inhalator, or barring that, then Chantix or Champix, or whatever it's called. Just a week ago, I went to the FDA's official page about ecigs, just to get their take first hand, and the first thing they say is to use approved NRTs. Kind of says it all.

 

[tj99959]

Smoking was a gateway to vaping for me at least, but being dyslexic, I guess I view most things backwards.

 

[AegisPrime]

Smoking was a gateway to vaping for me at least, but being dyslexic, I guess I view most things backwards.

Lol! Have you seen this book? Might be useful to get a few copies for those people you know that don't 'get it'

 

[navigator2011]

I was one of the idiots who tried Wellbutrin years ago, to try and quit. My doctor had some pretty serious reservations, but as he was a family friend, he knew how hard i'd been trying to quit, so he reluctantly wrote me a script, and gave me a pretty stern warning about side effects. I think I made it a week, before I stopped taking them, because I HATED how they made me feel. He was right, it's an antidepressant, that they found during trials stopped cigarette cravings. They don't really know why, but hey, it works, let's sell it as a smoking cessation drug!

I know the exact moment I stopped, I was at work, talking to my boss, and my mind blanked, mid sentence. I mean, BLANKED, I had to stop and figure out where I was, and what I was doing. Later, I thought about what would happen if I went through that driving...and I tossed the pills in the garbage.

These days, all that's in my medicine cabinet is Advil. (knock on wood)

I tried Wellbutrin, too. I didn't feel a thing, at least I don't think I did. I never even came close to stopping smoking on that drug. To date, the only thing that ever had any impact on my cigarette addiction was 6 months smoking nicotine-free herbals, and about 34 days cold turkey with Allen Carr's Easyway. Actually, the herbals were very effective, though the first week was pretty brutal. After the nicotine was out of my system, I didn't need to smoke except during trigger moments. After 6 months, I was going 2 weeks between herbal smokes. All it took was one real cigarette to return me to 1.5 PAD for 10 more years.

 

[RosaJ]

I was one of the idiots who tried Wellbutrin years ago, to try and quit. My doctor had some pretty serious reservations, but as he was a family friend, he knew how hard i'd been trying to quit, so he reluctantly wrote me a script, and gave me a pretty stern warning about side effects. I think I made it a week, before I stopped taking them, because I HATED how they made me feel. He was right, it's an antidepressant, that they found during trials stopped cigarette cravings. They don't really know why, but hey, it works, let's sell it as a smoking cessation drug!

I know the exact moment I stopped, I was at work, talking to my boss, and my mind blanked, mid sentence. I mean, BLANKED, I had to stop and figure out where I was, and what I was doing. Later, I thought about what would happen if I went through that driving...and I tossed the pills in the garbage.

These days, all that's in my medicine cabinet is Advil. (knock on wood)

My doctor prescribed Wellbutrin as well to me to stop smoking. It didn't make a dent on the smoking. However, I walked around with a kind of foggy head and I finally realized after years of taking it that I was letting life roll by without experiencing any feelings whether good or bad. I just quit taking it, and my life took a totally different course for the better.

 

[BillyWJ]

So... nicotine is addictive. The FDA, triple A, and all the other alphabet letters say ecigs are bad because they contain nicotine and it's "a gateway" to smoking.

Okay... so why did the FDA approve patches to be used indefinitely? Don't they contain nicotine? What if the chilreeen get a hold of the patches and use them all the time indefinitely? Has the CDC done a study on how many minors use patches at least once in the last 30 days? How about some of us who are allergic to the adhesive in anything that sticks to the skin? I guess they would then push their medicine to heal the holes left on my skin, not to mention the skin cancer that will develop.

I've got to quit trying to make sense of the nonsensical. I need to switch my 0 nic juice to the 12mg nic one just to calm down.

The whole "gateway" issue is a smokescreen (pun intended) to the REAL issue - they want to classify nicotine, so they can TAX it. And I have NO doubts that big tobacco is behind it, so they can be the "approved" vendor of nicotine, and get all the profits, and are paying millions of dollars to make sure it happens.

To me, the only gateway kids need is being a kid. They're curious, that's why I try not to smoke (or now, vape) in front of them. When they get older, and start exploring the world, they're going to try things - smoking, vaping, drinking, sex, drugs, rebellion, stealing, it's all part of growing up, and no amount of legislation or feel-good happy "awareness" campaigns will change that - and the more you ban something and make a big deal of it, the more kids will want to try it, because from their point of view (and ignorance), if an adult says "no", it must be REALLY good!

I see no reason to treat flavored liquid nicotine any differently than nicotine gum, patches, or cigarettes. You have to be 18 to buy it. The rest is up to parents, to teach kids to make wise choices in life. Anything else is just the usual suspects trying to profit.

 

[Nikkita6]

I can't imagine that any non-smoker that took up vaping, would eventually move on to cigarettes ... makes no sense. The only reason I could imagine a non-smoker would be interested in vaping in the first place is because it tastes good, and the gear is cool ... who would then want to smoke a nasty tasting, stinky cigarette?

 

[Dusif]

In this whole vaping scare thing the scared people are forgetting one (to me at least) HUGE factor...

If a person of more than 18 years of age decides to pick up an ego set and some e-liquid and start chain vaping like theres no tomorrow... ITS THEIR OWN DAMN DECISION and we all should keep our noses out of their business since theyre above 18 years of age and thereby grown people capable of making their own decisions...

BUT if a vendor sells them to kids they should have their stock confiscated, their shop auctioned off and get a 5 year stay at motel lockdown


Just my opinion... Should i run for president?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BillyWJ]

My doctor prescribed Wellbutrin as well to me to stop smoking. It didn't make a dent on the smoking. However, I walked around with a kind of foggy head and I finally realized after years of taking it that I was letting life roll by without experiencing any feelings whether good or bad. I just quit taking it, and my life took a totally different course for the better.

Yeah, that was my experience, too - the zombie state was starting to kick in, and I hated that, even without the blanking out. That's what those drugs are supposed to do - to file off all the peaks and valleys in your emotional state, so you're just a constant, blurry line.

What scares me is how many people these days are on pills like that. It's become a red flag for me, I won't date a woman who's on them, been there, done that, still have the scars from when she stopped taking them. Doctors hand them out like candy (thanks to the great perks and kickbacks they get from Big Pharma)

Yet, these pills are wholly approved by our Federal overlords, but nicotine is the most harmful thing to ever come into being.

 

[DC2]

I personally believe that smokers are more sane than anyone else.
But vapers are even more sane.

We may just be the sanest people on the planet earth.
But we have to deal with those that hate us, demonize us, or just really want us to go ahead and die.

Because? Because we LOOK like we are smoking!!!
Quit or die, you addicted losers!!

If you haven't been around these forums for long, you may consider that to be alarmist rhetoric.
Stick around, and you'll learn lots more

There is a reason I call them death-mongers.

And given that I am half Frog and half Jew on my mothers side, I can say this...
They operate with a Nazi mentality, and they follow he Nazi playbook to the letter day by day.

Learn, understand, follow the money, because there are people that don't mind if you die to further their agendas.

This is real. This is NOT a game.

 

[navigator2011]

I have met one guy (maybe 20-years old) who was a non-smoker that took up vaping, and is now working a local B&M. I asked him why. He said all of his friends were smoking analog cigarettes and he was feeling temptation to join in with them. So, he turned to 0-nic vaping to fit in, then later graduated to dripping 3-mg juice because he likes the taste with a little nicotine. He expressed to me that he feels vaping helped him dodge a bullet, and he has no intention of ever smoking analogs.

 

[AegisPrime]

My doctor prescribed Wellbutrin as well to me to stop smoking. It didn't make a dent on the smoking. However, I walked around with a kind of foggy head and I finally realized after years of taking it that I was letting life roll by without experiencing any feelings whether good or bad. I just quit taking it, and my life took a totally different course for the better.

The increasing quantities of antidepressant and antipsychotic medication being prescribed to patients with non-psychological disorders (or borderline/behavioural problems) is very troubling. Ordinary people don't seem to know where to draw the line in evaluating their own health - what's a normal part of 'being human' and what's a potential problem.

I have a friend who's on medication to control his schizophrenia and he completely needs it to live a normal and productive life - I also have friends who are completely dependent on antidepressants but I question the benefits - they seem to really struggle with feeling anything - no good days and no bad ones - life slips by and they never have the drive and the energy to achieve anything.

Just not sure what to make of the whole Pharma thing - there's no question that there's drugs and treatments that save lives and bring huge quality-of-life benefits to some people - seems to be a really ugly underbelly to it all though...