Let's Talk Vendor Ethics

[jkmtwo]

Ha Gotvapes.....they are, in my opinion, by far the worst vendor. I have seen so many people screwed by them for their over priced "its the greatest thing ever" crap. Will never use a vendor who flames their own customers when there is a safety issue, when even the manufacturer recognizes they screwed up.

Or how whenever someone has an issue that guy, Chris, always makes it out like its a plot against his company.

I will never use them for the way I have seen them treat others, period.

 

[Rocketpunk]

The OP mentioned a vendor who changed their recipe after he ordered.

Instead of creating a rant, did you stop to think maybe you could contact the vendor and tell them your story before making this thread? James from Mt Baker is a stand-up guy. Why did you feel the need to drag them through mud? If you'd just emailed them and told them your experience, I'm SURE he would've done whatever he could to help you.

Instead of that, you posted a rant. I think you should make better use of your time online.

 

[The_Fabricator]

Personally i am reluctant to shop online. With all the vape stores popping up i kind of see no reason to chance having a bad experience with an online purchase. I know some things are easier to acquire online but being new i think ill stick to in store purchases or at least do my homework and see who's accred able and buy from them.

 

[Rocketpunk]

Fabricator, the resources you have here on ECF are amazing. There are dozens and dozens of reputable vendors listed here.

 

[zapped]

Ok,

I'm not trying to beat up on vendors but I have to admit I'm getting tired of deception. All the "No guarantees, no refunds, no returns" language all over their sites. The WAY overpriced offerings from so many vendors, I mean 75% to 200% markups for old, dated versions of hardware or potentially defective hardware with no remorse or warning.

Examples:

1. The VAMO I just got, the vendor said NOTHING about the spring recall issue and it had problems as soon as I got it.
2. The Lava Tube I bought was on sale, it had missing paint on the cap, a sticky fire button and the 510 connection was offset, but no I could not exchange it due to it being a sale item.
3. The vendor who changed their juice formula but didn't tell the customers and I got f'd on a 50ml bottle thinking it was going to be the same stuff.
4. And all the ....ty cardos, clearos, leaky tanks, soft metal adapters etc that popped or broke just after I bought them, you know this dance I'm sure. But no exchanges or returns because they weren't DOA.

It really is buyer beware in this new market.

That is why I am so thankful there is ECF, such an invaluable resource!

End of Rant.

Doesnt look like your problem is vendors so much as not doing your research and buying cheap junk. Just my two cents.

 

[FantWriter]

I'm fortunate that I've only been slightly burned a couple of times. I always compare prices. I don't usually buy from the cheapest, because I think they're probably cutting corners somewhere. I look for lower-middle-range prices and good, honest comments by customers.

The one vendor who really made me mad, and who I'll never do business with again, made a simple mistake -- I ordered auto batteries and he sent manuals. I e-mailed to ask how he wanted them returned. I didn't want them replaced because I had a glut of batteries at the moment -- the new ones were to be a gift, and they'd taken so long to arrive there was no hope of getting replacements from him in time for my friend's birthday. He got really, really snippy with me. He did refund my money, but his attitude cost him a customer at a time when I was looking to make some major purchases of cartos and juice.

 

[Absintheur]

Personally i am reluctant to shop online. With all the vape stores popping up i kind of see no reason to chance having a bad experience with an online purchase. I know some things are easier to acquire online but being new i think ill stick to in store purchases or at least do my homework and see who's accred able and buy from them.

Maybe in your neighborhood but in the Northern half of Indiana there ain't no "popping" going on. I am in the middle of a virtual desert of B&M stores, only one within easy driving distance (45 minutes) has rude employees and very little selection. I am reduced to online as I suspect many folks are.

On the positive side I placed an order with Ikenvape and they were out of stock of one item I ordered. They called and asked how I wanted to handle the out of stock. I could drop it off my order, replacxe with something else, be put on a waiting list...was left up to me. I ended up talking the Gary (?) for over a half hour and he sent me more than I ordered without any charge for the extras. He took the time to explain the differences between some of their 510 attys and we talked about changes we both saw coming in the business. Best company I have ever dealt with.

 

[mattiem]

Personally i am reluctant to shop online. With all the vape stores popping up i kind of see no reason to chance having a bad experience with an online purchase. I know some things are easier to acquire online but being new i think ill stick to in store purchases or at least do my homework and see who's accred able and buy from them.

It's great that you have vape stores near you but if I had to depend on a vape store popping up in my area I would still be smoking. Thank goodness for on-line venders.

 

[Rocketpunk]

Doesnt look like your problem is vendors so much as not doing your research and buying cheap junk. Just my two cents.

This. I've stalked several websites selling the same thing, reading reviews, checking here on ECF, and asking other vapers before I've hit the button.

 

[DiNet]

Or just realize that cheapest is not the best. If an item costs $100 on avg and you found same item for $20 you'll have a bad day...

 

[zapped]

This. I've stalked several websites selling the same thing, reading reviews, checking here on ECF, and asking other vapers before I've hit the button.

Maybe Im getting old but back when these forums first started they were filled with people who did the exact same thing, they used the internet to learn more about electronic cigarettes and to research their purchases like a smart consumer should.Thats likely how they found ECF to start with.

Sadly,that appears to be the exception rather than the rule lately.

The way I see it is this. I have more time than I have money and Im going to research ANY purchase I make over 50 bucks. This insures that I'll have more money in the future because Im buying QUALITY products that will more than likely outlast the cheap ones 2-1 and sometimes far longer than that.

I dont and wont buy disposable products as they are a waste of money and Ive found that the people complaining the loudest about not having any usually bring it one themselves to start with.

Cheaper right now rarely if ever equals cheaper 2 years from now.

 

[jkmtwo]

This. I've stalked several websites selling the same thing, reading reviews, checking here on ECF, and asking other vapers before I've hit the button.

Maybe Im getting old but back when these forums first started they were filled with people who did the exact same thing, they used the internet to learn more about electronic cigarettes and to research their purchases like a smart consumer should.Thats likely how they found ECF to start with.

Sadly,that appears to be the exception rather than the rule lately.

The way I see it is this. I have more time than I have money and Im going to research ANY purchase I make over 50 bucks. This insures that I'll have more money in the future because Im buying QUALITY products that will more than likely outlast the cheap ones 2-1 and sometimes far longer than that.

I dont and wont buy disposable products as they are a waste of money and Ive found that the people complaining the loudest about not having any usually bring it one themselves to start with.

Cheaper right now rarely if ever equals cheaper 2 years from now.

This......,.........

 

[Big Mac]

I guess I've either been lucky, or have done my homework adequately. Haven't had a problem with an online vendor yet. Discount Vapers has always done me right, never had a return, but have had questions. Madvapes has always done me right, had a return of batts and chargers that just weren't working the way I thought they should ( the NiMH that are the size of the 18650 ). They gave me some suggestions I was happy to try, when they still didn't meet my needs, they accepted the 3 batts and 2 chargers back and asked me if I wanted it refunded to my CC or if I want credit. Took the credit and made another purchase.

I've had zero bad experiences, and good ones with DVs, Madvapes, COV, Vapor Beast, High Desert Vapes, and a number of others, those are just the recent ones.

Mac

 

[Wondertwin]

I fully agree with the assertion that the "search" option shouldn't be underutilized, and that ECF is a great resource for information. However as far as I know it's not a vendor watchdog. One person has a bad experience and 3 more pop to vigorously defend said vendor. You can be burned by either side of the he said/she and it wouldn't be due to lack of research rather than a personal experience. Relatively new and rapidly evolving technology involved here combined with the glut of knock offs requires a steep learning curve for the newbie. It's one thing to learn you like Kangers more than Vivi Novas, quite another to have formed an opinion based on what you were deceived into thinking was the real deal.

The element of personal responsibility exists, but vendor ethics very much applies. Especially in the world of self governance and little to no product regulation.

 

[zapped]

I guess I've either been lucky, or have done my homework adequately. Haven't had a problem with an online vendor yet. Discount Vapers has always done me right, never had a return, but have had questions. Madvapes has always done me right, had a return of batts and chargers that just weren't working the way I thought they should ( the NiMH that are the size of the 18650 ). They gave me some suggestions I was happy to try, when they still didn't meet my needs, they accepted the 3 batts and 2 chargers back and asked me if I wanted it refunded to my CC or if I want credit. Took the credit and made another purchase.

I've had zero bad experiences, and good ones with DVs, Madvapes, COV, Vapor Beast, High Desert Vapes, and a number of others, those are just the recent ones.

Mac

Just to qualify that last statement, when I say cheap I dont mean price. Cheap to me means cheaper quality.

Didnt want anyone confusing that.Im not saying go out and buy a solid gold GG, what I am saying is buy the highest quality you can afford and it will pay off in the long run.

If I was looking at cars and was on a limited budget I likely wouldnt buy a Yugo (anyone remember those? OR a brand new Caddilac Escalade. I would probably be looking at Honda Civics and Toyota Camris.

 

[jazon1]

i have been pretty lucky with my ecig order's other then a few smok redux's i got once that where not even threaded i have not had any problems,
but i check a few things before ordering through a vendor before buying,first there return/exchange policy second ill check here for peoples experience with the vendor and lastly ill make sure they are licensed vendors for the product they are selling so i know i am not getting knockoffs.
lastly if it is my first time ordering from a certain vendor i will make a small order first to see there quality of service and products before i make a larger order,but over all i stick to the same few vendors that have proven themselves good time and time again.

 

[jkmtwo]

I fully agree with the assertion that the "search" option shouldn't be underutilized, and that ECF is a great resource for information. However as far as I know it's not a vendor watchdog. One person has a bad experience and 3 more pop to vigorously defend said vendor. You can be burned by either side of the he said/she and it wouldn't be due to lack of research rather than a personal experience. Relatively new and rapidly evolving technology involved here combined with the glut of knock offs requires a steep learning curve for the newbie. It's one thing to learn you like Kangers more than Vivi Novas, quite another to have formed an opinion based on what you were deceived into thinking was the real deal.

The element of personal responsibility exists, but vendor ethics very much applies. Especially in the world of self governance and little to no product regulation.

I don't think anyone would or should disagree with this, the problem is, we as consumers have the ultimate responsibility in this equation, vendors do share in responsibility, but the ultimate responsibility is ours.

A drug dealer can't sell drugs without someone to sell them to. Vendors can't sell junk without someone to sell it to. And while there will be 3 or 4 people come along to defend any vendor, if someone is using that metric to judge a vendor, they've already been fopped, they just don't know it yet. The best way to judge a vendor is to take note of how he/she deals with their customers.

Walmart will bend over backwards to get your money, there are plenty of vendors who will do the same, those vendors, whether your concerns/gripes are warranted or not, will do what they can to make you happy.

This is very easy to see on this forum. There are certain vendors who never end up in the negative feedback section, wonder why that is? Meanwhile there are some that almost always have at least one thread going and usually more than one. These are the kinds of things that are very easy to take note of.

 

[E Dub]

Volcano - No response, no resolution.
E Liquid USA - No response, no resolution.
Spring Vapor - Fast response, issues resolved. Priceless. I buy as much as I can from them. I have confidence any and all issues will be resolved. Thanks Nik!

 

[Wondertwin]

The biggest single issue here to me is not warmfuzzy vendor feelings, rather slowing down meaningful innovation through deceptive practice. If a cheap, poorly performing knock off puts what could be the beginning of an excellent product on the bottom tier, we're the ones who lose.

The nature of this hobby or practice is disposable. Why? Does it have to be? Maybe. If manufacturers had to evolve their product to a more lasting one, they absolutely would for the almighty dollar. They'd also be a lot more likely to stand behind their product, which would likely translate to online vendors standing behind more of what they sell. They simply don't have to now due the accepted disposable nature of what they carry. RBA's you say! Replaceable vivi heads! Yes, but should paying a marked up (severely in some cases) price for the privilege of kanthal tinkering and wicking practice and mesh cutting and Lord knows what else be the norm?

Further, should this even be *available* when not all mods/batteries have the safeties or circuitry in place to test these projects safely? We, the customers, are not only pushing along evolution of the business with our wallets. We're also the tech, Q&A, manufacturing, creative department, and guinea pigs for the industry. I've never seen ECF call out a vendor, but I have seen product recalls and user posted pictures of "HORRY SHEET LOOK WHAT HAPPENED! AVOID!" stuff posted. On one hand, consumer driven innovation is great. On the other, should the masses have to be hostage to a host of imposters or shady sites to accomplish this?

 

[jkmtwo]

I fully agree with the assertion that the "search" option shouldn't be underutilized, and that ECF is a great resource for information. However as far as I know it's not a vendor watchdog. One person has a bad experience and 3 more pop to vigorously defend said vendor. You can be burned by either side of the he said/she and it wouldn't be due to lack of research rather than a personal experience. Relatively new and rapidly evolving technology involved here combined with the glut of knock offs requires a steep learning curve for the newbie. It's one thing to learn you like Kangers more than Vivi Novas, quite another to have formed an opinion based on what you were deceived into thinking was the real deal.

The element of personal responsibility exists, but vendor ethics very much applies. Especially in the world of self governance and little to no product regulation.

I don't think anyone would or should disagree with this, the problem is, we as consumers have the ultimate responsibility in this equation, vendors do share in responsibility, but the ultimate responsibility is ours.

A drug dealer can't sell drugs without someone to sell them to. Vendors can't sell junk without someone to sell it to. And while there will be 3 or 4 people come along to defend any vendor, if someone is using that metric to judge a vendor, they've already been fopped, they just don't know it yet. The best way to judge a vendor is to take note of how he/she deals with their customers.

Walmart will bend over backwards to get your money, there are plenty of vendors who will do the same, those vendors, whether your concerns/gripes are warranted or not, will do what they can to make you happy.

This is very easy to see on this forum. There are certain vendors who never end up in the negative feedback section, wonder why that is? Meanwhile there are some that almost always have at least one thread going and usually more than one. These are the kinds of things that are very easy to take note of.

Also I would like to point out, just because a consumer buys something and it doesn't do what YOU want it to do, that doesn't mean its junk, and that the vendor has a responsibility.

When the Stardusts were the greatest thing ever, I bought a few, I soon found out they didn't perform well at 9 watts and above, well, they were useless to me, they still worked, and would work great if I used them differently. That was on me. Not the vendor.