little frustrated

[firedup]

Seems I can't make my juice the way I feel it should be. I'm looking for feedback/opinions on what you think I'm doing wrong.

Mixing amounts determined with the ejuice calc.

Making 10ml
-4ml 60mg PG
-1.5ml PG
-3ml VG
-1.5ml flavoring (TPA Blueberry)

Good vapor, mild TH. This is the issue though, it never seems to vape away fully. I'll drip 2 drops and the first few hits are excellent but there is some left in the atty I would say? I say this because even though vapor is almost non exsistant the next 2 drop drip will flood the atty.

Grade: B as I would be happy with it if I could figure out the flooding issue.

Any advice for me?

Also, a few questions for DIY vets:

1) Do you always add PGA or distilled water to your VG? Even if you are mixing with PG such as I am in example 2?

2) Would adding PGA or distilled water to a pure PG blend increase vapor at all or just make it thinner?

3) If you use carts (I would like to on the go) do you design your liquid thickness to your cart or do you make a good liquid and then adjust the cart filling to suit the liquid? ATM I'm not using carts at all simply because as I play with juice making I end up with a different viscosity every attempt and my carts either don't wick or flood the atty.

4) Where do you buy a proper set of measurement devices? I have an excellent syringe but its too fat to fit inside the top of my nic and pure pg bottles. I have a pipette that works but its markings aren't very clear and I find myself guessing a lot when it comes to smaller amounts. Mail order links are fine as well as local suppliers.

5) Do you find that juices made with dark flavorings such as cappuccino and vanilla gum up the works much faster than fruit and or clear flavorings?


Thanks for your time in reading and hopefully leeching out some of your knowledge. I do like the vapor produced by my pg/vg blend attempts but its off enough that its making the experience frustrating. I understand tastes and expectations will vary from person to person but I'm in serious need of input.

Oh and someone will ask so:

-My PG is USP grade PG. I got it from a perfumer in a non original container but I witnessed the pour to my bottle and saw the label on the original.
-My VG is USP Glycerin. Brand is Humco, bought at the local wally world.
-My flavorings are Perfumer's Apprentice and LorAnn's.
-My nic juice is 60mg unflavored PG from my freedom.
-My PV atm is a black silver bullet, 510 atty. Running stock single cell voltage.

 

[Hoosier]

Where in Indiana do you stomp around?

I've got some thin syringes and pipettes that I may be able to spare.

 

[mwa102464]

Man its taken me a year to find out all those answers by myself with experimenting and reading on the ECF,and spending a small fortune at that. If you get all those answers and there good ones, I commend you for asking, there all good questions. I'll give you one of my thoughts here when I read your thread. Different juices act different with different voltages,Atomizers, percentages of mix's of differnt things addded to the mix,and a few other things as well, so, say im using my Silver bullet at 3.7v running a 510 atty like you are juice (A) might taste freaken awesome. If I use the same set up at 6v it might not taste the same or as good. With that said I think it really comes down to you still experimenting till you get exactly what your looking for and no one answer to your questions is going to hit the nail right on the head, some might help you out but your gonna have toread a lot keep at the DIY for a while is what I've lerned over the last year or so to get things to work till you say,, emmmmmm ya thats just where I want it. Then when I hit that perfect zone I make sure to write it down in my secret little black vaping book I keep, I cant tell you how many times I have had to look back at it to find something that I already new and have done before to get my answer but it helps to write it down when you find what you've done right.!!

PS
Good luck

 

[Orion]

I had the same experience with DIY juice flooding. My solution was to use more VG because it was thicker.

I mixed a high nic PG juice with all VG, and that seems to help with flooding. My brother had the same complaint with the first batch I mixed him, and I cut his amd remixed it with more VG and he was happy. It may not work for you, but it did for me. just my opinion but hope this helps somehow

I should also mention info on my vaping for comparison:

I drip

I use an ego w/ & w/o a LR atty (510), depending on what I left home.

I use a JantyStick V3 with a 510 adapter (I just don't care for the 801)

I use a 5v 510 passthru.

I plan on my next nic order to be all VG, and I can then add PG if I feel like the juice needs some more TH.

 

[firedup]

I think you might be onto something with the increased amount of VG Orion. It seems like with each attempt I make I end up using more VG and less PG. I started at 10% VG and have been slowly working my way up. Last batch was 30% VG and it was my best yet.

If I mixed the way you are suggesting I think it would work out to be 55% VG or thereabouts, I'll mix a small batch tonight like that tonight and give it a try in the morning to see if I like it that way. Jumping by 25% VG from my last batch is a higher jump than I would normally do but that's why I asked opinions! Constantly mixing small batches is getting old, I can't wait to hit that sweet spot so I can make a nice sized batch and vape myself silly!

 

[crowbartool]

I've been slowly bumping my vg up lately too..

Most of my current mixing goes something like

1ml 36mg vg nic base
3ml vg
1ml lorann flavoring
1ml pg

equals 33 percent pg 66 percent vg
6mg strength (pretty low but i like to chain vape)

the longer i dont smoke, the more TH i seem to get (been about 7 weeks)
I use mostly cartomizers at 3.7v on an eGo, if i want more throat hit i just pop it on a 5v kr passthrough on a 2amp usb

i've never added distilled water so i dont know what the effect would be

different flavors have different throat hit... i use all loraans, apple by itself in this mix gives perfect throat hit for me, if i want less i add a bit of caramel

 

[Scubabatdan]

Hi Firedup,

1) Do you always add PGA or distilled water to your VG? Even if you are mixing with PG such as I am in example 2?

No, I use 20% VG in all my mixes and about 10% distilled water IF the flavoring does not exceed 10%.

2) Would adding PGA or distilled water to a pure PG blend increase vapor at all or just make it thinner?

Since most of the china juices only use PG I think the consistency would be the same.

3) If you use carts (I would like to on the go) do you design your liquid thickness to your cart or do you make a good liquid and then adjust the cart filling to suit the liquid? ATM I'm not using carts at all simply because as I play with juice making I end up with a different viscosity every attempt and my carts either don't wick or flood the atty.

I use the same juice in my 901/801/510 that I do in cartos.

4) Where do you buy a proper set of measurement devices? I have an excellent syringe but its too fat to fit inside the top of my nic and pure pg bottles. I have a pipette that works but its markings aren't very clear and I find myself guessing a lot when it comes to smaller amounts. Mail order links are fine as well as local suppliers.

I buy all my syringes from TSC as they have ones from 2ml -60ml and I always have about 5 of each on hand. I use the TSC syringes because they have raised measurement marks and it does not fade when PG get on the outside.

5) Do you find that juices made with dark flavorings such as cappuccino and vanilla gum up the works much faster than fruit and or clear flavorings?

Yes any darker juice I have found will reduce the life of the carto or atty faster.


Thanks for your time in reading and hopefully leeching out some of your knowledge. I do like the vapor produced by my pg/vg blend attempts but its off enough that its making the experience frustrating. I understand tastes and expectations will vary from person to person but I'm in serious need of input.

A great way to check viscosity is to do either using the mirror test:
Place two drops on a mirror laying flat side by side, one you mix and one that is a vendors mix that works well. Tilt the mirror and see which one runs faster than the other. No either add more VG or PG to thicken or thin you mix to match. Record you amounts and repeat until they are identical.
The other test is to use a 5ml syringe with a 16ga needle, suspend it above a catch cup and fill it to the 5ml mark with vendor juice or juice that works good. Now set the stop watch and let it start dripping. When it is done mark the time, this is the time to match with the juice you create. Add VG to thicken or PG to thin, repeat you juice until the times match or are really close.

I would suggest the following amounts:

Making 10ml
-4ml 60mg PG
-2.5ml PG
-2ml VG
-1.5ml flavoring (TPA Blueberry)

Reducing the VG will thin the juice out a little but it will flow better, the atty is designed so the the juice runs down the bridge and saturated the mesh surrounding the ceramic cup, when you inhale you are pulling the juice up to the nichrome wire and the silicon rope the wire is wrapped around. If it is to thick it will not flow and sit on top and pool running into the cup and flooding the atty. This is just my experience, to thin and it runs everywhere again flooding the atty.

Getting the right viscosity is essential for a constant vape.

I hope this helps,
Dan

 

[Hoosier]

Huh, I have atty overheating issues if my VG, unthinned, goes over 30% total using a BFM cart.

I seldom mix without at least some VG and find Loranns has a thinning effect that without VG causes flooding. I do not find this with any other flavoring brand. (Watermelon is the most thinning flavor that I've encountered.)

 

[Nikhil]

Good vapor, mild TH. This is the issue though, it never seems to vape away fully. I'll drip 2 drops and the first few hits are excellent but there is some left in the atty I would say? I say this because even though vapor is almost non exsistant the next 2 drop drip will flood the atty.

-My PV atm is a black silver bullet, 510 atty. Running stock single cell voltage.

That's pretty strange, because VG has a higher boiling point than PG. In theory, PG would be the first thing to vaporize (which would give little vapor) and then the VG would be "left in the atty" as you say. Your vapor is disappearing but if it's flooding there must be something in the atomizer. The only explanation I can think of is that your liquid has not fully mixed and your PG and VG are still separated to some extent, but when you drip the PG floods the bottom and the VG gets on the wick.

You're getting different views on the VG%, but I don't feel that it's the real cause of any problems. In fact, to make things simpler you might want to test if a straight PG mix creates the same flooding problem.

Questions for you - how long have you had this flooding problem? How much did you shake/mix it? Have you tried different atomizers/brands/models? Is there still flavor when you get to the part with no vapor?

I make many 40%-100% VG liquids so I usually dilute to about 5:1 VG:Water. Dark flavors sometimes clog atomizers faster, but it isn't always the case. Other than that, I agree with Dan. For syringes, TSC = Tractor Supply Co.

Good luck.

 

[MaxUT]

4) Where do you buy a proper set of measurement devices? I have an excellent syringe but its too fat to fit inside the top of my nic and pure pg bottles. I have a pipette that works but its markings aren't very clear and I find myself guessing a lot when it comes to smaller amounts. Mail order links are fine as well as local suppliers.

I bought a bunch of graduated medicine droppers for small amounts. One version is graduated in 0.1ml increments and works well for flavoring.

1ML glass or plastic medication droppers by HealthAccessories.com

-My PG is USP grade PG. I got it from a perfumer in a non original container but I witnessed the pour to my bottle and saw the label on the original.
-My VG is USP Glycerin. Brand is Humco, bought at the local wally world.
-My flavorings are Perfumer's Apprentice and LorAnn's.
-My nic juice is 60mg unflavored PG from my freedom.
-My PV atm is a black silver bullet, 510 atty. Running stock single cell voltage.

Good ingredients, good hardware. Be sure to keep enough spare attys on hand. Just keep working on your recipes and keep accurate notes, because it's very frustrating when you mix something really good but can't duplicate it later.

 

[firedup]

You're getting different views on the VG%, but I don't feel that it's the real cause of any problems. In fact, to make things simpler you might want to test if a straight PG mix creates the same flooding problem. Questions for you - how long have you had this flooding problem? How much did you shake/mix it? Have you tried different atomizers/brands/models? Is there still flavor when you get to the part with no vapor?

I have tried a pure PG mix (in fact I still have it), but I find at stock voltages I don't get the vapor production I want. For a couple weeks I did have a LR 510 atty and oddly enough the pure PG mix performed the best for me, even including ready mix juices I've ordered. As far as flooding, no not so much with the straight PG.

I've had this flooding problem with just about every attempt at homemade juice I've made so far.

I typically shake the mix for a few minutes, run the whole bottle under hot tap water for a bit, shake it some more, and then I typically let it sit overnight or the better part of the day depending on when I made it.

I've had similar (not identical) experiences using a Joye, DSE, and LR atty. I won't have any more LR atty's since I haven't gotten a decent lifespan out of one yet. Whereas I haven't blown a normal resistance atty yet, even when dry burning a nasty taste out of one.

At first when vapor falls off I will still have flavor, possibly for one or two hits, then if I continue trying to hit it I will start getting burning wick taste. If I let the atty sit for a few minutes sometimes I'll get another good hit before the process repeats.

I've got a 3ml sample made up using Orion's thoughts and a 3ml sample made up using Dan's suggested mix. I made them last night but right now I'm still puffing away on my morning vape. Cappuccino laced with wintergreen, dripped into the atty from my first mistake, a smoker savior ecig. Oddly this juice was made very close to Dan's mix levels and does not flood the savior, but I'm unwilling to test it in my 510 atty's as the flavor seems semi-permanent in the atty. I know I could just clean out a 510 after but... meh I hate cleaning atty's since I've been doing enough of that with my homemade attempts.

I've got a double today at work 3pm-7am ugh.. I'll post some thoughts on the 2 mixes I brewed last night tomorrow when I wake up. Hopefully anyway, sometimes I don't make it anywhere but from the bed back to work after a double.

Thanks again to everyone for posting your thoughts, its definitely given me some ideas to mull over.

 

[Orion]

I didn't even think about VG causing overheating, that's a good point.

The math involved is why I would rather order VG based nic, because it's a lot easier to figure out how much PG is in a total mix that way, lol. I suck at math, despite the straight A's I received, it's all still outside my comprehension

 

[Ast_Isis]

I use a 60mg/ml PG nicotine and mix it down to 10mg/ml with a 30/70 VG/PG ratio. This is the sweet spot I have discovered when using a 510 atomizer on a 3.7v mod. This produces a lot of vapor and throat hit even after adding flavoring. For vaping at higher volts I have discovered that either a 20/80 VG/PG or 25/75 VG/PG works best.

As for measuring, I bought some of these since I tend to mix large batches nowdays: Scienceware® Economy Graduated Cylinders | U.S. Plastic Corp.

When I am mixing test batches, I use syringes from the Farm/Tractor supply as Dan mentioned.

Do not become discouraged! I have a degree in chemistry and it took me some time before I could mix anything worth vaping.

 

[Scubabatdan]

BTW.... why drip when you can squeeze?

Dan

 

[Ast_Isis]

BTW.... why drip when you can squeeze?

Dan

What is that mod, I do not recognize it?

I use a GGTS and plan on buying the automatic feed system made just for it.

I have heard that some of the AFS systems require a thinner liquid to work correctly.

 

[Scubabatdan]

What is that mod, I do not recognize it?

I use a GGTS and plan on buying the automatic feed system made just for it.

I have heard that some of the AFS systems require a thinner liquid to work correctly.

LOL that is because it is a scuba doo mod LOL
Two pill fob connected, one for the PT portion and the other for the Juice running PVMA connectors and a 510 atty. It is my transformer mod with a juicer, so it can be a PT as you see above or "mobile" as you see below
Dan

 

[Orion]

BTW.... why drip when you can squeeze?

Dan

Holy Cannoli!!!

I am impressed.

 

[firedup]

So I tried both of the mixes at work last night and my findings are thus:

At 20/65/15 (vg/pg/flavor)

I get a pretty good vape on the Joye atty at 3.7v. The dse atty's not so much. However I think the dse atty's are in need of ressurection. My standard cleanout of hot water/blowout/dry burn/repeat just isnt getting these atty's going again. At 5v this juice is a bit off, kind of chemical tasting. Overall I am pretty happy with this vape. Next attempt is mixed and aging, same blend but flavoring is cut to 10%, making it 20/70/10.

Grade: B+ because at 15% the flavor is a bit overpowering. 10% lorann watermelon + 5% lorann strawberry/kiwi.


At 55/30/15 (vg/pg/flavor) Vapor production is pretty crazy. However this batch suffers from my same old issue of not vaping away completely at 3.7v. Only tested on the Joye atty as my dse atty's are fubar atm. At 5v this juice seems pretty dead on, but I am not liking how hot I have to run the atty.

Grade B- because even tho I am not happy with 3.7v performance it does work well at 5v. Only problem there is I'm not looking to vape 5v often.


Additional thoughts:
-Using the Joye atty it seems I can overcome most issues if I play with voltage or how hot I let the atty get.

-Part of my issue seems to be that I simply don't like running the atty hot, this may be a root cause of the struggles with DIY that I have voiced in this thread.

-It seems that 15% flavor is OK in a high VG mixture but does not scale down well as less VG is used. I do not know if this is some mystery involving VG's reaction with flavoring or if it is a function of the flavoring's performance relative to atty temperature.

-It seems I have hit a vaping threshold, I find myself unconcerned with throat hit as a grading point. In fact juices with a high throat hit throw me into a coughing fit like I am a teen hitting the .... once again.

-I now have a notebook with a couple pages of notes regarding performance of some juice blends as well as how they work with different hardware. I can't decide if this is just smart DIY note keeping or indicative of obsession.

 

[firedup]

Dan that is a very interesting mod. I love the flexibility. Very cool.

 

[Hoosier]

I think you're on it Firedup.

Getting too much VG in my mixes makes them wick too slow and the atty gets too hot when I vape like I usually do. I guess small puffs with some time between is the way to go on them?

I've never gotten into dripping because every time I try, I forget to drip because I'm distracted by something and absentmindedly vaping.

How is the Loranns strawberry-kiwi? It sounds pretty tart.