Lots of bad news about vaping recently?!?

[stumpfreeman]

What rips my heart out is that people are believing the smear crap.

A couple of weeks ago I had 2 ladies at my desk.
One went out for a smoke, the other told me she really wished her friend could stop smoking.
I showed her one of my e-cigs...asked her if she knew what it was...
She said "Is that one of those electronic cigarettes ? Those are WORSE for you than cigarettes !!"
I told her if she really wants to help her friend to please do a little reading and look beyond the scaremongering "news stories" she has heard...and that I have been using them for almost 6 years.

Yup, almost every smoker I've approached about converting to ecigs (and it is a hefty amount 30+), turns to me and says those very words, Aren't they worse than real cigarettes? I'm afraid that the war is already over. You can do all of the advocacy you want, the vast majority of people who haven't converted by now, truly believe that vaping is worse than smoking, not to mention the non smokers. I've done my share of emailing politicians and surprisingly actually got some letters back supporting vaping, but the general public has already made up their minds based on all of the crappy internet news pages claiming they know better based on some junky science study. I try to stay optimistic, but it just gets harder and harder.

 

[englishmick]

We have all these pro vaping causes that take in money and support...where are their articles. They should be putting them out there on a regular basis..but where are they? We can complain about ALL THE BAD anti vaping articles out there but at some point we have to at least say they are consistent is getting their message out unlike the pro vaping causes out there.

Not long after I joined ECF I read a bunch of stuff about PR campaigns, going back to the early years of ECF. One that stood out to me was a long post by Rolygate (pretty sure it was Rolygate). It went into detail about how the PR campaign from the anti vaping side would play out, and what it would take to counter it. Ideally we would respond with a similar effort run by a professional PR company, way beyond our financial means, but there were more practical alternatives that could help.

The point was made that getting large amounts of material in front of a wide public audience, and quickly countering the other side's material, is a highly specialized and expensive operation. A bit like an election campaign actually. It requires people who know how to do it and have the media contacts ready in their toolkit. That's what the other side is doing. It's not something that just happens.

We shouldn't blame a bunch of small vaping groups for not having that capability. That's not what they were formed to do, they don't have the resources, and they are fragmented. The opposition consists of some of the richest corporations in the world with decades of experience in this area. I know a lot of people are working heroically to get the message out. The huge advantage the other side has gained recently in terms of media exposure and forming public opinion suggests we were simply outgunned.

I just did a search for those posts. I found lots of discussion around the topic in a thread called Fight Fire With Fire. Maybe including the post I was thinking of, though some stuff I seem to remember wasn't in there. Search for "campaign" with posted by member "Rolygate" brings up a lot.

It's kind of just historical interest now anyway, what might have been, or an analysis of why we lost the propaganda war.

 

[Douggro]

Cynicism with the media is nothing new, (Don Henley's Dirty Laundry is running through my head) and has only gotten worse with the advent of all the different cable news channels vying for a section of the audience. Bad news, rhetoric and spin is what sells. Reasons why I never watch Fox News, CNBC, or CNN. They've become incompetent, incoherent agenda-pushers. The last newsman I trusted was Walter Cronkite and perhaps Dan Rather. Peter Jennings was OK I guess..

People want the bad news to feel better about ourselves, about how lucky we are. We enjoy watching the train wreck - until that train wreck impacts us directly.

 

[herb]

The thing that is really depressing and very telling at the same time is these days following celeb's , facebook and reality shows are whats most important to a lot of the current generation .

Whatever celeb's say or rap artist rap about is "the word" lol, it's sad but very comical at the same time .

I just shake my head at the complete idiocy going on out there these days . I can't imagine society being worse than it is currently , it's an absolute disaster , a complete mess.

The words responsibility , accountability and respect are completely foreign words these days .

 

[Plumes.91]

Some vapors get so butthurt when you call it smoke.....smoke, vapor, whatever, point is our lungs are not build for inhaling it, don't get me wrong I love vaping at crazy watts, but I'm not delusional enough to think it's healthy

our lungs are actually PRECISELY BUILT, for inhaling aqueous vapor...

 

[Plumes.91]

Has anyone actually looked close at what we inhale? I don't think its vapor or smoke... looks more like an aerosol actually.

Oh well, whatever it is, its not a cigarette.

how do you not know by now? what we vape is quite literally, VAPOR. it is the result of propylene glycol entering our mouths/throats/body, expanding by taking-on water, thus becoming vapor, and then it is exhaled as propylene glycol in it's expanded h20-vapor form. I used to ask what our vapor was all the time. Our vapor is the PG/VG, hydroscopically-expanding into thick vapor, by means of absorption of the liquid in our bodies, and force of air.

It is truly sad and astonishing the amount of UNINFORMED vapers whom grace the halls of ECF these days. They come to us without questions... "I want to use my REO without melting the button. WHY cant i fire my REO at 0.1 ohm without melting the button? I am using 3amp UltraTrust ICR Batteries. I get more vapor from the batteries than the atty! whats wrong!?"

UGH! If you dont know, ASK QUESTIONS, new vapers...
There WAS a time, here on ECF, where I felt pretty secure in saying that i had the new-members forum LOCKED DOWN... I mean, I was replying to every-single new member introduction post there was, with an informative post on what vaping is & it's safety. Now we've got new members/new vapers jumping into sub-ohm head-first. we've got n00bs using 100-200 watts without ever having even TRIED mechanicals, or 12w governed mods... We've got these new vapers, vaping on s&%t that I HAVENT EVEN ACCEPTED YET!! I mean, there's vapers that haven't been vaping longer than a WEEK, building coils and firing them on mechanical mods WITHOUT FIRST FIRING THEM ON A REGULATED MOD to TEST the OHMS! We are just ASKING for MORE battery failure stories in the news.

It's as-if safety went out the window, with the invention of replacement-coil-capable, sub-ohm tanks... WHY couldn't we leave SUB-OHMing to the experienced- Those whom know the dangers and RESPECT the hobby? Those whom UNDERSTAND Ohm's Law?

I mean the other day, I commented on a Youtuber's Video. He is a new vaper, with his first mechanical MOD, coming from Ego Batteries & Clearomizers... He builds this fancy TWISTED-WIRE coil... He puts the leads thru his atty terminals, and he proceeds to FIRE the mod, with the SCREWDRIVER THROUGH THE COIL... BLATANTLY shorting-out his mod in-front of my eyes, at-risk of extreme battery failure. & he's wondering why his coils are sparking and popping in the video. He proceeds to wick the coil and vape from it, unknowing of the dangerous offense he just committed before our eyes. I commented, simply, "Bro, you need to learn OHM'S LAW- It's not OHM's SUGGESTION, IT'S OHMS LAW!" as a friendly little helpful reminder, hoping that he would look into Ohm's Law, and NOT build w/bad habits... He replied to me, something to the tune of: "BRO, I DON'T NEED TO LEARN OHMS LAW, I THINK I HAVE THINGS COVERED, DID YOU SEE MY SMOKE!?" -_______- i hate what this is becoming, i have to admit it, right here, right now... I hate what this is becoming... i hate that grimmgreen himself, has jumped on the high watt, warm vapor band-wagon... ugh. I am beginning to seriously miss the old days... back when there was a CLEAR SEPARATION between those whom educated themselves, & could subohm, and those whom had not-yet educated themselves, and there-for did-not yet subohm/high-watt vape. SIMPLE, right? ugh!!

 

[Canadian_Vaper]

Some vapors get so butthurt when you call it smoke.....smoke, vapor, whatever

I don't like when people call it smoke because its NOT SMOKE....

 

[Canadian_Vaper]

how do you not know by now? what we vape is quite literally, VAPOR. it is the result of propylene glycol entering our mouths/throats/body, expanding by taking-on water, thus becoming vapor, and then it is exhaled as propylene glycol in it's expanded h20-vapor form. I used to ask what our vapor was all the time. Our vapor is the PG/VG, hydroscopically-expanding into thick vapor, by means of absorption of the liquid in our bodies, and force of air.

It is truly sad and astonishing the amount of UNINFORMED vapers whom grace the halls of ECF these days. They come to us without questions... "I want to use my REO without melting the button. WHY cant i fire my REO at 0.1 ohm without melting the button? I am using 3amp UltraTrust ICR Batteries. I get more vapor from the batteries than the atty! whats wrong!?"

UGH! If you dont know, ASK QUESTIONS, new vapers...
There WAS a time, here on ECF, where I felt pretty secure in saying that i had the new-members forum LOCKED DOWN... I mean, I was replying to every-single new member introduction post there was, with an informative post on what vaping is & it's safety. Now we've got new members/new vapers jumping into sub-ohm head-first. we've got n00bs using 100-200 watts without ever having even TRIED mechanicals, or 12w governed mods... We've got these new vapers, vaping on s&%t that I HAVENT EVEN ACCEPTED YET!! I mean, there's vapers that haven't been vaping longer than a WEEK, building coils and firing them on mechanical mods WITHOUT FIRST FIRING THEM ON A REGULATED MOD to TEST the OHMS! We are just ASKING for MORE battery failure stories in the news.

It's as-if safety went out the window, with the invention of replacement-coil-capable, sub-ohm tanks... WHY couldn't we leave SUB-OHMing to the experienced- Those whom know the dangers and RESPECT the hobby? Those whom UNDERSTAND Ohm's Law?

I mean the other day, I commented on a Youtuber's Video. He is a new vaper, with his first mechanical MOD, coming from Ego Batteries & Clearomizers... He builds this fancy TWISTED-WIRE coil... He puts the leads thru his atty terminals, and he proceeds to FIRE the mod, with the SCREWDRIVER THROUGH THE COIL... BLATANTLY shorting-out his mod in-front of my eyes, at-risk of extreme battery failure. & he's wondering why his coils are sparking and popping in the video. He proceeds to wick the coil and vape from it, unknowing of the dangerous offense he just committed before our eyes. I commented, simply, "Bro, you need to learn OHM'S LAW- It's not OHM's SUGGESTION, IT'S OHMS LAW!" as a friendly little helpful reminder, hoping that he would look into Ohm's Law, and NOT build w/bad habits... He replied to me, something to the tune of: "BRO, I DON'T NEED TO LEARN OHMS LAW, I THINK I HAVE THINGS COVERED, DID YOU SEE MY SMOKE!?" -_______- i hate what this is becoming, i have to admit it, right here, right now... I hate what this is becoming... i hate that grimmgreen himself, has jumped on the high watt, warm vapor band-wagon... ugh. I am beginning to seriously miss the old days... back when there was a CLEAR SEPARATION between those whom educated themselves, & could subohm, and those whom had not-yet educated themselves, and there-for did-not yet subohm/high-watt vape. SIMPLE, right? ugh!!

As much as I find this post extremely blatant you do have some valid points, then again I'm a very technical person, I knew ohm's law before I got into vaping, I knew about battery safety and already had 18650's (VTC4's) for some of my high powered flashlights, what is basically happening is they are selling race cars to people that have never driven...

 

[Bunnykiller]

Pg and vg or both oils

not really.... oils dont mix with water
VG/PG will.. therefore not an oil, they are more towards the alcohol groups ( its the way the CHO molecules attach to each other that make it what it is...)

 

[sofarsogood]

Scientific evidence that vaping is lower risk than smoking has been piling up for years. The people who don't like vaping ignore it. Bill Godshall who posts regularly in this forum collected links to a lot of research on vaping and put them in this document. I read the whole thiing yesterday but didn't follow all the links. This document has been submitted to the FDA. .

 

[DeAnna2112]

Not long after I joined ECF I read a bunch of stuff about PR campaigns, going back to the early years of ECF. One that stood out to me was a long post by Rolygate (pretty sure it was Rolygate). It went into detail about how the PR campaign from the anti vaping side would play out, and what it would take to counter it. Ideally we would respond with a similar effort run by a professional PR company, way beyond our financial means, but there were more practical alternatives that could help.

The point was made that getting large amounts of material in front of a wide public audience, and quickly countering the other side's material, is a highly specialized and expensive operation. A bit like an election campaign actually. It requires people who know how to do it and have the media contacts ready in their toolkit. That's what the other side is doing. It's not something that just happens.

We shouldn't blame a bunch of small vaping groups for not having that capability. That's not what they were formed to do, they don't have the resources, and they are fragmented. The opposition consists of some of the richest corporations in the world with decades of experience in this area. I know a lot of people are working heroically to get the message out. The huge advantage the other side has gained recently in terms of media exposure and forming public opinion suggests we were simply outgunned.

I just did a search for those posts. I found lots of discussion around the topic in a thread called Fight Fire With Fire. Maybe including the post I was thinking of, though some stuff I seem to remember wasn't in there. Search for "campaign" with posted by member "Rolygate" brings up a lot.

It's kind of just historical interest now anyway, what might have been, or an analysis of why we lost the propaganda war.

We don't live in the age anymore where only big publishers can get a story out. We have social media which is far more powerful and places like PR Web where one can publish their own press releases...and if they are popular enough the feed will make it to major news presses. As vapers we have to stop paying more attention to the negative articles and passing those around for discussion and start doing the same for positive articles...how often do we see positive articles being raised on this forum and discussed? i sure don't see it happening very often..it's always the negative articles getting all the attention and that is because their really isn't that many positive articles being put out there. I don't buy that pro vaping causes are doing their part in countering negative articles..but to each their own.

 

[crxess]

We don't live in the age anymore where only big publishers can get a story out. We have social media which is far more powerful and places like PR Web where one can publish their own press releases...and if they are popular enough the feed will make it to major news presses. As vapers we have to stop paying more attention to the negative articles and passing those around for discussion and start doing the same for positive articles...how often do we see positive articles being raised on this forum and discussed? i sure don't see it happening very often..it's always the negative articles getting all the attention and that is because their really isn't that many positive articles being put out there. I don't buy that pro vaping causes are doing their part in countering negative articles..but to each their own.

The why has nothing to do with a lack of Good Articles.
The Why is the Same as for TV and Bad Publicity.

We know The Good and are satisfied it exist - No Need to Preach to the Preachers.
We Bring the BAD into Light here, out of Disgust and need for others to know it.

I for one do not wand to sit around reading Vaping Fluff stories while the Anti's tear us down again and again.

Many of those Negative stories have Comment sections. Believe me, if so, I Blast them with more than they bargain for and I fully intend to keep doing it.
Bring on the Bad, I have something to say

 

[skoony]

Our vapor is the PG/VG, hydroscopically-expanding into thick vapor, by means of absorption of the liquid in our bodies, and force of air.

The trouble with the term vapor is depending on what scientific principle you're talking about
it can mean a lot of different things. It could be a transitional phase or a phase itself.
Is vapor the visible evaporation observed before water actually boils and or is it the invisible
gas emitted when water is heated over the boiling point. Note the water in the pot is below the
boiling point,the bubbles are above the boiling point. Then as the the gaseous form of water
loses heat and condenses back to the liquid phase we have visible vapor again.
The hygroscopic qualities of PG/VG are very important. Water starts to to produce visible evaporation (vapor)
at about 186 F. We all know the boiling point (producing invisible gas) is 212 F at sea level.
It's the water that kick starts the whole thing. Unless your running straight VG at the
highest purity there will be typically 2-3% water in your juice naturally. If it were not for the water
content in the juice your basic V2 cigalike battery with cartridge would not work. There is simply
not enough power in the battery to actually cause visible evaporation In PG which boils at about
360 F and certainly not VG which boils north of about 540 F. The transitional phases caused by heating
the water content atomises the the base mix into the aerosol which we observe. By the way technically
we can call this vapor too.
When I first started vaping I used cigalikes. When searching on the internet for cheaper products
I found a vendor that described in detail how this process worked. They said when the coil was
fired up around the wick saturated in juice the average temperature was about 196 F which
they believed produced the optimal vapor production in the water content producing an
aerosol that was not affected by to much heat to cause the base to breakdown into unwanted
byproducts.

Regards
mike

 

[sofarsogood]

In the long run everybody benefits if smoking goes away but in the short run there will be a lot of disruption because businesses and tax supported institutions that depend on tobacco money will have reduced funding. Public apathy is self serving. They have to make adjustments if all the smokers quit paying tobacco taxes so it shouldn't be a shocker if they are not going out of their way to support us. I've thought for a while there needs to be some good macro economic studies of what would happen if most smokers quit. There is a study looking at smokers supported by medicaid that concludes if they quit smoking it would save medicaid more than tobacco taxes collect.

But why has there been an endless delay cracking down on vaping? May be a transition from the status quo to strict controls is not so easy.

 

[crxess]

Almost Laughable.......................Almost!

“One of the things that we have been concerned about is people basically hanging out in vape shops and vaping in there,” Chen said. “That is not something that we support.”

Read more here: Pierce County health board votes to restrict use of e-cigarettes

What is next?

All these people hanging out in Restaurants, eating.
All these People hanging out in Bars, Drinking.
All these people hanging out in Business all day, being productive.

Nothing more than Justification for Taxification.

Vaping shop licenses will cost $375 a year.
The fee rises to $565 plus lab costs for shops that want to offer product sampling.

 

[Rossum]

Almost Laughable.......................Almost!

What is next?

All these people hanging out in Restaurants, eating.
All these People hanging out in Bars, Drinking.
All these people hanging out in Business all day, being productive.

Nothing more than Justification for Taxification.

Vaping shop licenses will cost $375 a year.
The fee rises to $565 plus lab costs for shops that want to offer product sampling.

Why does this remind me of the Anti-Saloon League?

 

[Douggro]

Why does this remind me of the Anti-Saloon League?

Because.. it does. And let's not forget how Prohibition ended up working out.

 

[Robino1]

Because.. it does. And let's not forget how Prohibition ended up working out.

They made booze legal again but put a 'sin tax' on it.

If I remember my history correctly. It's a toss up if I do or don't.

 

[Douggro]

They made booze legal again but put a 'sin tax' on it.

If I remember my history correctly. It's a toss up if I do or don't.

Liquor was taxed pre-Prohibition; see also Whiskey Rebellion.

 

[Izan]

We don't live in the age anymore where only big publishers can get a story out. We have social media which is far more powerful and places like PR Web where one can publish their own press releases...and if they are popular enough the feed will make it to major news presses. As vapers we have to stop paying more attention to the negative articles and passing those around for discussion and start doing the same for positive articles...how often do we see positive articles being raised on this forum and discussed? i sure don't see it happening very often..it's always the negative articles getting all the attention and that is because their really isn't that many positive articles being put out there. I don't buy that pro vaping causes are doing their part in countering negative articles..but to each their own.

I want to believe... Do you have an example to reinforce your point?
Just ONE please:

"We don't live in the age anymore where only big publishers can get a story out. We have social media which is far more powerful and places like PR Web where one can publish their own press releases"​

Pro-vaping is BT and it's product...have we not seen the adverts?
THEY are the only "vaping" cause that is being supported or defended HERE. We have been duped...
Tobacco cigarettes will be supplanted by BT E-cig products...
Status quo unmolested. Taxes and MSA payments intact.

I