Lots of bad news about vaping recently?!?

[MyMagicMist]

I guess I'll just keep my thoughts about the lawn darts and the Canadian version of the USA Patriot Act to myself then.
Or not.

"Dis ez da police wez haz youz surrounded youz willz comeze outz de houze orz wez willz firez der flush baaaangz into ze houze evenz ifz youz haz de houze filled witz dez childrenz!"

Oh no, too late they inferred you're a terror mongering old goat wearing Flash Gordon under-roos from your comment here regarding peanut butter. You ought to make for the hills and hide in the caves. *chuckles*

 

[Jman8]

IMO a good analogy of difference between smoking and vaping is:

1 - Do you want to drive a car? (equals smoking)

2 - Or do you want to walk through the park while using your mobile device?

There's no long term studies on walking through the park with a mobile device, so there's no humanly way of knowing how that will affect you over the long term. Could be much worse for you than driving a car. Who knows?

Now please ignore the people that have lived to be 90 years old or more and have driven a car. All those people and anyone at any age that has driven and is still alive needs to be ignored for my primary point that cars kill people and/or can hurt them very bad.

If we can all just remember that driving kills and is one of the most deadly items on the planet, all other points are easy to make. Oh, also ignore that some people actually like to drive in a car. Please do not focus on the enjoyment factor when it comes to driving or walking through a park, as that would take away from the many aspects of harm I could talk about if you care about actual data and details.

Also realize that people who would still drive a car when they could just as well only walk thru a park with a mobile device, but choose to do both, are dual travelers, which is another way of saying they are troubled individuals. Can't quite give up driving just yet (knowing it is one of the deadliest activities on the planet) and have started walking through parks with a mobile device as well. Both are very risky activities. Lots of mobile devices explode in parks, okay maybe only about 5 so far, but who knows what the future will bring? For all we know, all devices in the future could one day explode, and then where would humanity be?

Obviously kids shouldn't be driving/riding in a car (duh) and walking through the park with a mobile devices is a huge no no for minors. Why? Because they need our protection and it's just wrong to argue otherwise. Duh. So, no go for kids doing this, as it is that risky, or we really don't know how risky it is, so why risk it?

A question arises of whether people should be allowed to walk through a park with a mobile device in public? Well, a) you can't drive through a public park using a mobile device, so there's that precedent. B) It's inherently rude to walk through a public park using a mobile device. And c) while it could be left up to private parks to make the call, it is just common sense that if we know it is rude and risky, that really no one should be doing this in public, probably not in private as well. For sure if children are present anywhere in the park, then it is strictly off limits. Won't anyone think of the children? A fair compromise is that wherever you can drive through a public park while using a mobile device, then that is a place you are allowed to walk through with a mobile device. Not sure how anyone can argue against that.

---------

And that's about as far as I care to take the analogy for now. To me, it's a good analogy and one I find to be utterly ridiculous in how my arguments are put forth. And yet, I used almost the same (exact) rhetoric as an anti-vaper would. Imagine that.

 

[DeAnna2112]

I can only assume that you didn't click on the links in the posts below.

and i can only assume you did not get that old regurgitated links put out here and there are not enough. We need new fresh monthly releases getting the word out there and crawling the search engine on a regular basis. Every time we turn around new negative articles are hitting the internet...we need to be doing the same and saturating the internet with our own new articles addressing and countering these new negative articles.

 

[skoony]

I wonder if the "hate on smokers" that so many former smokers have isn't some sort of defense mechanism they've developed to help keep themselves from slipping back to smoking?

Of course not all former smokers do this, and in my observation, vapers do it less than former smokers who've quit using other means, but it does seem to me that the those who hate on smokers the most loudly tend to be "reformed smokers" themselves.

I have seen this type behavior from any ex-type groups. Ex/drinkers/overweight/non exercising/smoking/religious or nonreligious/motorheads v bike riders, you name it. i believe this behavior is not so much the result of the dumbing down of
the population as it's the stunting of the critical thinking skills and lack of maturity in a large percentage of the population.
i believe that a greater part of the population has a better grasp of the three basics,reading writing and arithmetic than
say in the 1800's but, lack the thinking skills to get past the emotional level of your basic eighth grader. There's a sub group
for everyone. Just like the cliques in high school. As a matter of fact I believe high school cliques best describe what this
type of behavior is all about. Without mature thinking skills you're basically a surfer,greaser or,baldy.

Regards
Mike

 

[EvilZoe]

What would REALLY be excellent is if the regular population REALLY MEANT IT when they claim they want to be free. Being truly free legally would mean adults would be able to make their own decisions about smoking, vaping, drinking

I have seen this type behavior from any ex-type groups. Ex/drinkers/overweight/non exercising/smoking/religious or nonreligious/motorheads v bike riders, you name it. i believe this behavior is not so much the result of the dumbing down of
the population as it's the stunting of the critical thinking skills and lack of maturity in a large percentage of the population.
i believe that a greater part of the population has a better grasp of the three basics,reading writing and arithmetic than
say in the 1800's but, lack the thinking skills to get past the emotional level of your basic eighth grader. There's a sub group
for everyone. Just like the cliques in high school. As a matter of fact I believe high school cliques best describe what this
type of behavior is all about. Without mature thinking skills you're basically a surfer,greaser or,baldy.

Regards
Mike

And it's far too easy to allow oneself to slip into old, comfortable behaviors like feeling "better than" others who are still engaging in the behavior that you once were but successfully pulled yourself away from and passing judgment on them as so many people did to you. It would do us all good to remember that vaping is still a VERY new thing and that we'd all likely still be smoking if someone hadn't got us interested at the time they did and we were lucky enough to maintain that interest until we could procure decent devices and juice that sealed the deal.

We're the lucky ones.

 

[Robino1]

People are trying to counter the negative. I need to try to find the link where the vaping side is getting billboards up in different areas.

I've contributed to the fund but if I had the Bucks, I would be renting them myself.

I love when an individual comes up with an idea then takes it upon themselves to find a way to get it done. <hint, hint>

 

[herb]

I have a few people on ignore so i don't see whats posted by them , this is only because the people i ignore won't even admit smoking is that bad for your health and they are very pro over the top in favor of "diketones" in e juice .

I just refuse to debate people who cannot even admit that vaping a juice with "zero diketones" is a better idea than vaping juice "filled with diketones" and yes, the people i have on ignore are people who could not answer that question or answered with the latter lol.

I require people to have at least some "basic common sense" to make it not a complete waste of time to debate , that is my opinion and if others disagree that is A OK with me.

 

[crxess]

and i can only assume you did not get that old regurgitated links put out here and there are not enough. We need new fresh monthly releases getting the word out there and crawling the search engine on a regular basis. Every time we turn around new negative articles are hitting the internet...we need to be doing the same and saturating the internet with our own new articles addressing and countering these new negative articles.

.......and your Fluff piece gets published , when?

Budgets have limitations. Perhaps if you realized the Financial burdens involved and the Cash Flow differences, you would have some understanding as to the reason for the lopsided publicity.

The AMC - $117 million Prevention and Education
Legacy Anti-Smoking Budget $100 Million
CDC,FDA - $100 Million Anti-Smoking Media

and those are 2012 Budgets, likely increasing annually.

Dollars make things happen - less dollars make things happen Slower, and in the case of Media - with Less impact.

Now comes the Question. Just how much can the average Vaper invest in Advertising?
Before attempting any calculations, the First thing to take into account is only a Small percentage even understand there is a problem. as small as 10-15% of Vapers.
For reference:
ECF Membership - 237,212, a Far Cry From MILLIONS of Vapers - Yet this seems to be the First and most well known E-cigarette Forum on the internet.*

* Typing <Vaping Forum> brings up another Recent popularized Forum
- Not one I wish to represent my Vaping concerns -

With a Few others with Memberships like - 2,194 current. Many of these being Multi Forum members.

Staring through the looking glass in anticipation with unrealistic expectation proves disappointing.
Lead by Example - Then complain if others do not follow.

 

[skoony]

I just refuse to debate people who cannot even admit that vaping a juice with "zero diketones" is a better idea than vaping juice "filled with diketones" and yes, the people i have on ignore are people who could not answer that question or answered with the latter lol.

I myself find the debate invigorating. As far as the questions of diketones in as much as we use
them are not the same kind of exposure experienced by the factory workers and considering there
is absolutly nothing indicating they are harmful when used in vaping there is nothing to admit to
being a better choice than not using at all. At this time it's a personal choice based on one's own
opinions, neither choice being quantitatively better than the other. Of course future discoveries
may change this decision either way.

Regards
Mike

 

[crxess]

I myself find the debate invigorating. As far as the questions of diketones in as much as we use
them are not the same kind of exposure experienced by the factory workers and considering there
is absolutly nothing indicating they are harmful when used in vaping there is nothing to admit to
being a better choice than not using at all. At this time it's a personal choice based on one's own
opinions, neither choice being quantitatively better than the other. Of course future discoveries
may change this decision either way.

Regards
Mike

Did someone get crossed up on which thread they were posting in?
We have a nice Diketones Debate going on elsewhere

...and what is with Herb, or anyone else thinking Blocking(ignoring) a problem will magically make it go away?
No doubt there are people here that have serious counterproductive issues and yes they can be a genuine irritation, however ignoring them as they continue to do damage is like inviting Termites to munch on the Foundation.

I've had my share of run ins and to Date have Blocked exactly -0- users.
One does not need to Respond but is well served to gain understanding in order to improve their own position.

 

[Douggro]

Did someone get crossed up on which thread they were posting in?
We have a nice Diketones Debate going on elsewhere

No, my read was that Herb caught the "common sense" reference earlier in this thread and felt he had to rebut the reference to the debate in the other thread you mention.

I refuse to block posts from any member here. I may not agree with them or the points they make, but ignoring them is optional based on what they post after I read it.

 

[crxess]

No, my read was that Herb caught the "common sense" reference earlier in this thread and felt he had to rebut the reference to the debate in the other thread you mention.

I refuse to block posts from any member here. I may not agree with them or the points they make, but ignoring them is optional based on what they post after I read it.

Yep, got that and just hope this thread stays on general topic. Interested in Topic debate and discussion.

On that note, Who else has linked - A BILLION LIVES - on their Facebook?
Advertising that Government Cannot Stop..........though Facebook may try
Face it
Tweet it
Pin it

Want the word out - Get the Word OUT!!!!!!

 

[fwdkiller253]

Vaping isn't good for you, i get sick from it all the time so i went back to ciggerettes i never felt this good in my life. But i eventually quit smoking cold turkey its the best to do it.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

 

[Rocketpunk]

The dumbing down of society always makes me think of a Greg Giraldo bit about military soldiers writing letters back to their wives.

"I read a book, it was filled with letters that soldiers during the Civil War had written to their girlfriends back home. These guys were kids, fourteen, fifteen-year-old kids. Most of these guys had never even been to school. But every single letter in the book was incredible. Every single letter was like, 'My dearest Hannah, this morn' finds me wracked by the fiery pangs of your absence. I'll bear your cherished memory with me as I battle the forces of tyranny and oppression.'

"Now think about what the typical letter is like from your average, modern day soldier to his girlfriend back home, in like, New Jersey. It's got to read like: 'DEAR MARIE IT IS HOT AS [EDIT] OUT HERE IT IS HARD TO FIGHT THESE [EDIT EDIT] WITH YOUR [EDIT] STUCK TO YOUR LEGS IT IS VERY VERY HOT OUT HERE BECAUSE I AM IN THE DESSERT WHAT ELSE DID I WANT TO AXE YOU OH YEAH DONT [EDIT] NO BODY' ".

P.S. I'm not bashing soldiers, my father fought in Desert Storm. It's just a funny comparison.

 

[Robmidi]

I think people are hired to do hit jobs on vaping such as the study from New York where the Nimrod heavily modified a battery and fired a coil with ridiculous power and SHAZAM they found vaping generated formaldehyde.

Then other scientists found that used as intended the vaping devices generated virtually no formaldehyde

These crackpot scientists seriously needs a refresher course in ethics

Real science is following the data where it leads instead of pushing a political agenda because some politician writes a check to fund research

It's like the employer who was looking to hire an accountant. He had interviewed several candidates and asked them "how much is 2+2?" They all answered 4, and were dismissed from the interview. The person who got the job answered "What do you WANT it to be?" Numbers can be tweaked to give the desired results. It's all about power and money. Big tobacco and government have both and want more. Vaping is a threat to big tobacco and a potential revenue stream to government. In my own experience, vaping is on the order of 95% safer than smoking. I've been off "stinkies" for two years and three months, just had a physical and passed with flying colors. There are numerous studies that clearly demonstrate the advantages of vaping over smoking.

Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk

 

[Coldrake]

and i can only assume you did not get that old regurgitated links put out here and there are not enough. We need new fresh monthly releases getting the word out there and crawling the search engine on a regular basis. Every time we turn around new negative articles are hitting the internet...we need to be doing the same and saturating the internet with our own new articles addressing and countering these new negative articles.

If you followed the link I provided there are about 10 articles dated December 30 2015 alone. You say you need new fresh monthly releases, well, you'll find links to several dozen new articles every month at the link I provided.

Here is a random sample of article titles from the last couple of weeks. If you consider these old and regurgitated, I can't help you.

Scottish hospital board reverses vaping ban, now welcomes e-cigs

No, there's still no evidence e-cigarettes are as harmful as smoking

Advocacy, Opposition, and the Vaping Truth

Scientist Debunks Latest Claim

Dangerous nonsense about vaping

Unpacking Myths – Dr. Farsalinos on Vaping (Part II)

Xmas gift from Iowa for all the good little ecig fans

New study shows e-cigs are safer than tobacco smoke

New Study Doesn't Show E-Cigarettes Give You Cancer

Using e-cigarettes to stop smoking

Announcing First-Ever Tobacco Harm Reduction Conference - April 22, 2016

Norwegian Union of Vapers meeting with the Ministry of Health and Care Services

GOP Congressman Defends Right to Vape

E-cigarette flavors needed to keep vapers from returning to smoking

E-cigarettes should be promoted as a smoking cessation

Mischaracterization of E-Cigarette Risks Skews Smokers’ Perceptions, Hurts Their Health

E-Cigs' Inconvenient Truth: It's Much Safer to Vape

If you're interested in these kinds of articles and want to keep up with the latest vaping news, you can subscribe at the site, vapers.org.uk, or to the thread here at ECF, Nothing About Us. Without Us. (Title Edited)

 

[crxess]

Vaping isn't good for you, i get sick from it all the time so i went back to ciggerettes i never felt this good in my life. But i eventually quit smoking cold turkey its the best to do it.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

Disappeared in Nov. 2013..........
............Reappeared today to post this

 

[crxess]

Removed Quote

Hi, My name is Dal. I'm 62 and appreciate the youthful comments.

Welcome Back to ECF

 

[classwife]

Knock it off in here.

The back and forth flaming going on in threads lately is going to stop.

 

[ReigntheGamer]

Why so serious folks?