LOVE MY FIRST MECH!

[stols001]

I don't expect to resell my clones. If I'm going to buy an RTA that's super expensive though, I'd rather try a clone first, as some RTAs just don't work for me and my fine motor tremor. I don't have an original kayfun, but I might at some point as I like what I have a lot.

If I'm buying originals it's usually provaris and things I know I will love (e.g. a second original kabuki).

With that said, for custom engraving/superb machining I'd agree that an original mech mod is a great choice. The only mods that I have that come anywhere near in quality are my provaris. I just wanted to have one as a lure for the husband, and also felt that if he didn't like it, I would. It's my only mech so far, and I'm happy I have it

If I'm dropping $14 bucks at FT for a clone, I know it's usually experimental only. And for most midrange stuff, I don't really see the rationale for going clone, like I think there is a clone for the Siren V2, and to me, that wouldn't be worth the effort. I do try to buy strategically for my needs/things I'd like.

Anna

 

[zoiDman]

I’ve never understood why some genuine mech mods are hundreds of dollars compared to their clone counterparts. It’s a brass or copper tube either way, you could make one yourself with a piece of pipe , am I right? They’re like a flashlight switch, not high tech at all right?

BTW2 - If you could make Mech Mods, which would you rather do?

Make 1000 Mech Mods where you made 5 Bucks a Piece in profits?

Or make 50 Mechs where you got $100 of Profits per Mech?

From a Profit standpoint, it is the Same.

But from a Manufacturing Standpoint, it is So Much Easier to make Low End stuff because you Don't need so much Skilled Labor and Equipment.

 

[HauntedMyst]

I’ve never understood why some genuine mech mods are hundreds of dollars compared to their clone counterparts. It’s a brass or copper tube either way, you could make one yourself with a piece of pipe , am I right? They’re like a flashlight switch, not high tech at all right?

Why buy a bicycle costing thousands at a bike shop when you can go to Target and get one for $150? The both have 2 wheel and a seat and go when you pedal them. The wonders of pricing never cease.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Why buy a bicycle costing thousands at a bike shop when you can go to Target and get one for $150? The both have 2 wheel and a seat and go when you pedal them. The wonders of pricing never cease.

Are you…by any chance…interested in some clones?

Good luck.

 

[HauntedMyst]

Are you…by any chance…interested in some clones?

Good luck.

Yes, but only of my dog!

 

[papergoblin]

Why buy a bicycle costing thousands at a bike shop when you can go to Target and get one for $150? The both have 2 wheel and a seat and go when you pedal them. The wonders of pricing never cease.

For the most part you'd be correct but not completely. Yeah you can get a $150 bike but you could spend a $1000 and get one that fits you exactly or weighs half as much as the other. Depending on application that might matter, especially to those that compete.

Now for mods a tube is a tube, until it isn't. I have clones and authentic mods, some clones are as solid as their higher priced brethren, while others fall drastically short. Cheap mods have looser tolerances at times, which makes for stripped threads, wonky feeling and shorter lifespan.

Some cheaper mods use cheaper and thinner metal. This means again stripped threads and easily bent tubes. Not to mention junk plating, tarnishing and even rusting.

A good example, I had a H Cigar Nemesis and a no name one, both copper and looked similar. The no name froze up, making the lock ring useless. The H Cigar is still going strong years later and other than some scratches looks fantastic. Now if I compare it to a friend's real Nemesis, mine feels cheap and looks it as well. Function wise though, both are very similar other than the authentic having better threading (smoother and having a tighter lockup).

I have an authentic Infected Mod (was $50 new) completely different animal than the clones FT sold. My friend's clone was junk compared to the real thing and all he saved was $35. So not all authentic mods are "expensive".

In the end, whether it's real or fake, it matters more about the maker and materials they use. If it's made to be cheap, it will be and if it's made to be quality, it will be.

 

[HauntedMyst]

For the most part you'd be correct but not completely. Yeah you can get a $150 bike but you could spend a $1000 and get one that fits you exactly or weighs half as much as the other. Depending on application that might matter, especially to those that compete.

Now for mods a tube is a tube, until it isn't. I have clones and authentic mods, some clones are as solid as their higher priced brethren, while others fall drastically short. Cheap mods have looser tolerances at times, which makes for stripped threads, wonky feeling and shorter lifespan.

Some cheaper mods use cheaper and thinner metal. This means again stripped threads and easily bent tubes. Not to mention junk plating, tarnishing and even rusting.

A good example, I had a H Cigar Nemesis and a no name one, both copper and looked similar. The no name froze up, making the lock ring useless. The H Cigar is still going strong years later and other than some scratches looks fantastic. Now if I compare it to a friend's real Nemesis, mine feels cheap and looks it as well. Function wise though, both are very similar other than the authentic having better threading (smoother and having a tighter lockup).

I have an authentic Infected Mod (was $50 new) completely different animal than the clones FT sold. My friend's clone was junk compared to the real thing and all he saved was $35. So not all authentic mods are "expensive".

In the end, whether it's real or fake, it matters more about the maker and materials they use. If it's made to be cheap, it will be and if it's made to be quality, it will be.

That was my point. The biggest difference is that in the vaping industry, we rely on a few mod makers to come up with good designs. From a mech mod standpoint, very few. What we've seen is clones destroyed most original manufacturers. H Cigar would never have come up with a Nemesis on their own. People are short sighted when it comes to spending money. The American passion for buying lots of stuff means only thinking about what they want now, immediately without thinking about how that money they've spent effects the future. We're like racoons who get their paw stuck in a can going after something shiny.

 

[papergoblin]

That was my point. The biggest difference is that in the vaping industry, we rely on a few mod makers to come up with good designs. From a mech mod standpoint, very few. What we've seen is clones destroyed most original manufacturers. H Cigar would never have come up with a Nemesis on their own. People are short sighted when it comes to spending money. The American passion for buying lots of stuff means only thinking about what they want now, immediately without thinking about how that money they've spent effects the future. We're like racoons who get their paw stuck in a can going after something shiny.

Very true and the manufacturers are a large part of the problem. Many of the clones are made on the exact same line as the authentic models, especially atomizers. I am of course speaking to the designed (insert here) but made in China authentic models.

When they design it and send the specs to the factory, they are in effect handing them the keys to the city. Then it's I don't know how your design got out or maybe it's a planned effort, to get the cost down on making the authentic. The original designer hoping the clone will push the authentic's sales and the factory giving them a discount by somewhat selling them the design.

 

[stols001]

I agree with this to a point. For example, even if I may not be buying another Kabuki if I order from the US, it will often be from Zen, simply because I want to support a US maker and I like his stuff, so support the business, even if it's on the import/resale side.

I'd love if I could buy authentic everything and on lower price points, that is achievable. I don't really see much point to buy a Siren V2 clone for example (although to each their own) but I do find some mods, if I can support their business and like their products, I will do so when able.

Some things are simply not affordable to me compared to what the clone may give me. I could be wrong about that, but there are times I simply know that I won't find out whether the original is better, but I do try to spend judiciously when I can.... Supporting innovators and truly wonderful products is a great idea. I also, obviously, support the mod-makers whose quality I believe in whether it be a US maker, a British company (which I believe Tesla cigs is) as I want them to keep innovating and to be around in the future.

Everyone should try some high end vaping products IMO. Some just knock it out of the ball park (and I say that at any price point). I also find that durability is a HUGE factor for me, given my clumsiness and etc.

I do think everyone should also be able/feel comfortable purchasing the way that they wish, with the added caveat that yes, with a mech, a clone should be well reviewed and in use for a while before I'd even consider it....

Anna

 

[MacTechVpr]

[QUOTE="stols001, post: 20482213, member: 309471"…Supporting innovators and truly wonderful products is a great idea.…

[Yet] I simply know that I won't find out whether the original is better…

[Therefore]…a clone should be well reviewed and in use for a while before I'd even consider it….

Our above and common impression demonstrates why a strategy of makers supporting the juice bar business model is critical to their success. And ours as well in the long term.

IMO, sampling the variety of original authentic hardware in a copacetic environment is indispensable to appreciating the value of the design, construction, performance attributes, etc. of our gear. There's likely more to be gained from the real life hands on experience of vaping other folks setups in such a venue than anything we might glean from the internet. Arguably not even online community. One is caricature, often embellished; the other, the real thing.

Good luck.

El que compra barato comprará a cada rato.
(He who buys cheap buys often.)

 

[zoiDman]

...

El que compra barato comprará a cada rato.
(He who buys cheap buys often.)

I have also heard a Similar Expression...

El que compra barato puede comprar en todo momento.
(He who buys cheap can buy often.)

 

[HauntedMyst]

\

I do think everyone should also be able/feel comfortable purchasing the way that they wish

Why? You seem to have a great deal of respect for your husbands intelligence and mechanical abilities. Lets say he sets up shop and goes to the trouble of spending months designing, prototyping and making the Stols002 (not to mention the hours of CNC programs he had to write). He sells them for $100 and people love it and wish he could produce more. A month later and your neighbors are telling you how great their Stols is and what a great deal they got on it at only $25 because a Chinese company replicated it right down to his logos. He isn't seeing a dime from any of those clones and pretty soon, he has to close shop. He can't fund his next project because he has no money for rent, let alone more supplies. He's devastated. So do you still believe in the freedom to buy stolen ideas and designs?

I should add, this same discussion has been going on since the introduction of clones and I doubt anyone's mind will be changed now more than it would have been 4 years ago. Our sense of entitlement is generally king when it comes to making purchases.

 

[zoiDman]

... He's devastated. So do you still believe in the freedom to buy stolen ideas and designs?

...

Maybe He should have made His Own Clones of His product like Many OEM's do?

 

[HauntedMyst]

Do we have a single proven instance of a clone being made by the OEM? I believe that's ECF urban myth.

 

[zoiDman]

Do we have a single proven instance of a clone being made by the OEM? I believe that's ECF urban myth.

Could be? But by that Same Logic, one could ask...

Do we have a single proven instance of a clone never having been made by the OEM?

BTW - If You were an OEM, what would You Do?

Or are Cloners the Only ones who can sell a "Clone"?

 

[MacTechVpr]

Do we have a single proven instance of a clone being made by the OEM? I believe that's ECF urban myth.

The operative words in your statement being made by the OEM, i.e. under the direction or approval of. We live under the illusion that overseas production somehow resembles American industry and presume to know who controls it. I really don't much see the significance or importance of designed in U.S. Nor may we rest in confidence as to protection of trademark or patent. So you make a good point. Even if there were, how do you know for sure? Maybe it actually was. Mebe not.

When I order an authentic from the U.S. source I've purchased directly from the maker or their authorized agent with a high probability of receiving the genuine article. If not there's an abundance of controlling law at all levels as basis for remedy.

It's precisely this uncertainty which makes the whole discussion on clones (and their valuation) problematical in its potentials for inequality. The product itself is a moving target.

Good luck.

 

[MacTechVpr]

I have also heard a Similar Expression...

El que compra barato puede comprar en todo momento.
(He who buys cheap can buy often.)

Haha, true that. I hear Schlitz is pretty good too, for a cheap beer.

Good luck.

 

[stols001]

I do understand and respect incredibly well made things. I usually own some of them, not all of them, because there are times I am going to be tired/lazy/etc.

I also own clothes for painting and the opera.

I do what I can within my means, to buy authentic and to support American vendors. I also have cheap knock offs of things and etc.

With that said, if something is clearly incredible, there is usually going to be a market for that, although I may not be part of that market in every instance.

Anna

 

[MacTechVpr]

I do understand and respect incredibly well made things. I usually own some of them, not all of them, because there are times I am going to be tired/lazy/etc.

I also own clothes for painting and the opera.

I do what I can within my means, to buy authentic and to support American vendors. I also have cheap knock offs of things and etc.

With that said, if something is clearly incredible, there is usually going to be a market for that, although I may not be part of that market in every instance.

Anna

Do agree and I'm not condemning alternatives in the absolute. Only certain assumptions as to equivalency which are irrational. Were it not for the abundant affordable alternatives of some imports I would've never been able to help as many along. So, for some, there is a silver lining of sorts. But the package and the ad are almost an article of faith for us gullible shiny lovers (me one) being accustomed to an American marketplace. So when I hear this account that this mech or mod by this producer was as good as or better. First, it's only a snapshot. Tomorrow is a different picture. And secondly, who the heck produced it, really?

Good luck.

 

[zoiDman]

The operative words in your statement being made by the OEM, i.e. under the direction or approval of. We live under the illusion that overseas production somehow resembles American industry and presume to know who controls it. ...

Maybe it is just Me. But I am under No Such Illusion.

LOL

BTW - Speaking of Clones and Illusions, here is a Re-Post of something I posted a Long Time ago...

I worked with an Owner of a Company that made Very High End Knives. Extremely Tight Tolerances and the Highest End Materials. The Fit and Finish was Superb.

One day I go to his shop and he was packaging some of his Knives in White Boxes. And not the Normal Presentations Boxes.

I asked him what he was doing? Did he run out of the Good Boxes. Or was this just a Cost Cutting Measure. LOL. He told me he was making Knock-Offs. The same knife only with Less Workmanship and the Blade Material wasn't as good.

Said that he was tired of trying to Fight people Copying his products. That there was no Real Way to Stop It. So why not make his Own Knock-Offs and at least make Some Money of them?

Kinda an Interesting Twist when you think about it.

Post #81 of Why Do People Knowingly Buy Clones?

BTW2 - That Owner above has about a Dozen LLC's/DBA's. And a S Corp or two.